$1500 for the new round of qualifiers!

[JAM]

JAM, I think at this point I'll take a leaf out of sjm's book and leave all the IPT haters and lovers to battle it out.

I know that leaf well. Sometimes I just self-ban myself for a spell when I do not enjoy what I am reading.

The fact is the IPT website stated the world open qualifiers would be $1000 entry, half way through a qualification process they have shifted the goal posts.

LOL. I like that expression: "shifted the goal posts."

I have stated many times in the past I play pool for the love and competition not for the cash, I can do that anytime I choose. I just don't like being made a fool of in life. I have spent a great deal of effort singing the IPT praises early days, and passing on info to other players - now for the second time they have made me (and others I know) look foolish....

I am trying to understand your plight. Why are you looking like a fool, and who else is feeling like they look foolish because of the IPT? I am really wanting to understand the "fool" part.

Playing pool for the love of the game is why most, if not all, players maintain their passion for this game throughout life. Some champion-caliber players have left the sport after they've gotten beaten up, for whatever reason, and only the strong will survive, depending on which pool tournament trail you follow.

Today, though, the IPT has given the players a platform to shine, perform to the very best of their abilities, excellence, if you will, and let their spirit soar. I can't believe the majority of champions out there have stayed in pool because of the money, but then again, maybe that's why there is such a small lot of them when compared to other sports. If they can't play well, they're gonna go broke in this pool world where you have to come in third- or fourth place to break even.

Its a shame you only remember the improvements I have suggested with regards the IPT and have chose to ignore the praise I have also lavished on them. Your recent post is proof I guess that when somebody like yourself has such a strong opinion about a topic they only see the bad in what others say.

I'll be honest with you, TheOne. I haven't read all of your posts. This forum moves fast and furious in recent times. When I first joined, I used to read probably 90 percent of the posts on the Discussion Forum. Today, I can't keep up with them. I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but there's always something which seems to pique my interest.

TheOne, when you create a thread on the IPT forum and put in its subject line "MORE LIES," it does give the impression that you dislike the IPT. Lie" is a very strong word.

I have read much of what you say about the IPT, rarely do you write a sentence about the IPT without a large dollar value in it. I have yet to meet a player that isn't an IPT card holder that is happy with what they are being asked to do to live their dream.

I consider myself Pro IPT, but perhaps more importantly more Pro Pool than Pro my own interests.

I wonder if you would feel the same way if the prize money was slashed?

TheOne, if you think there's an elaborate fortune to be made following the American tournament trail, predominantly on the East Coast, I gotta tell you, it's pretty slim pickins' 'round heeyah.

I only go to these things because I share a passion for the game with my above-referenced "sidekick."

He may like to go for different reasons than me, but we both have pool as our common denominator. In other words, TheOne, if the prize money was slashed, I hate to say it, but I'd probably be there.

JAM

 

[ScottW]

The fact is the IPT website stated the world open qualifiers would be $1000 entry, half way through a qualification process they have shifted the goal posts.

http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/event_qualifiers/na_06_open_default.asp#world
(Look, a link! )

It appears that the qualification tournaments for the World Open haven't even begun yet. So why do you say "half way"? Unless you're counting the NA Open as the "first half" - and the two tournaments, and their respective qualifiers, are completely separate groups of events. That would be like considering this years' World Cup (soccer) to be the "second half" of the last World Cup four years ago.

Now, I will say that next to each scheduled qualifier on the linked page above, there's a "Sign Up!" link, which appears to take you through a series of forms that include spots to enter a credit card for billing for the entry fee. So I'm assuming that there's probably *some* folks who have signed up for some of these qualifiers - and chances are, some of those folks got the old $1k/$500 fees.

And I'll also assume (as it would be a real kick in the teeth, business-practice-wise) that those folks who signed up for the previous lower fee aren't going to be hit up for the 50% hike - that the new fees will apply to folks signing up after the increase.

So maybe is THAT what you mean by "half way"?

 

[APA9]

Very well said Jam.

There really are only two people here who get a kick out of debating the IPT and taking the negative side. It is time to stop giving them any credence by responding to their inane arguments.

How ironic! There are really only two people here who get a kick out of debating the IPT and taking the positive side! And here, in one post, we have one talking to the other!

 

[APA9]

Not all of them will necessarily have to re-qualify. It is my understanding that any of the players who won their way into the Vegas tournament that finish high enough can earn a tour card.
Yes, the competition in the qualifiers is going to get tougher. For a tour that pays out in the millions, that is to be expected. I seriously doubt that many APA players are going to earn a spot on the tour. IPT is for PROFESSIONALS....APA is strictly for amateurs. There is a huge difference in the level of play.

Steve

If you're referring to my nickname, the joke is that I'm not in the APA. Despite your super duper BCA grand poombah teaching status, I'm sure I'd have little trouble dispatching you on a pool table.

 

[ScottW]

If you're referring to my nickname, the joke is that I'm not in the APA.

Yes, because we *all know* that subtle, inside jokes are as obvious as turds in punch bowls on the internet!

Don't be surprised when folks assume you're an APA player with that nickname.

Plus, breaking out the virtual ruler to measure your... ah... CUE shaft (yeah, cue shaft!) over someone's lack of grasping your not-so-obvious humor is bad form.

 

[APA9]

Yes, because we *all know* that subtle, inside jokes are as obvious as turds in punch bowls on the internet!

Don't be surprised when folks assume you're an APA player with that nickname.

Plus, breaking out the virtual ruler to measure your... ah... CUE shaft (yeah, cue shaft!) over someone's lack of grasping your not-so-obvious humor is bad form.

And assuming that someone isn't worthy of playing in an IPT qualifier because they have "APA" in their nick name is equally bad form. There are probably quite a few real APA players that could hold their own against some BCA Master Instructors.

 

[JAM]

How ironic! There are really only two people here who get a kick out of debating the IPT and taking the positive side! And here, in one post, we have one talking to the other!

OMG, what could that be all about? Could it be....SATAN?

I actually get my kicks on banging 200-plus pages per day, APA9, and I've always got time to say hi to JJinFLA.

JAM

 

[JAM]

And hi to you too, Scott W!

JAM

 

[JAM]

And assuming that someone isn't worthy of playing in an IPT qualifier because they have "APA" in their nick name is equally bad form. There are probably quite a few real APA players that could hold their own against some BCA Master Instructors.

Yep, I agree. Oh, BTW, hi to you too, APA9!

JAM

 

[memikey]

.......I'm assuming that there's probably *some* folks who have signed up for some of these qualifiers - and chances are, some of those folks got the old $1k/$500 fees.

And I'll also assume (as it would be a real kick in the teeth, business-practice-wise) that those folks who signed up for the previous lower fee aren't going to be hit up for the 50% hike - that the new fees will apply to folks signing up after the increase........

Good point.On a related issue it would be interesting to know if those who won a "free entry" into another qualifier (eg those who won frees during the latter sets of NA Open qualifying comps) will only now be given an entry credit to the value of their original entry (meaning they'd have to now fork out US$ 500 or US$ 250 to use their freebie at The World Open qualifying) or whether they'll be given a completely 'free' entry

...and I wonder if the selected IPT pros will now get US$ 1,500 instead of US$ 1000 for winning their challenge matches at the World Open qualifying comps.

 

[TheOne]

JAM,
When the IPT was in the early days I spent a lot of time raving about it, I had been calling for 8 ball on 9fters to be the game of choice for sometime and I liked a lot of the things the IPT where syaing. One of the things I raved about was that they wanted the players to play in other tournaments, then what happened? OK so after much discussion and bad feedback they resolved the issue it still didn't look good. I've done a similar thing in recent months, explaining to players how the qualification system works, I also pointed out that the world open was better value because it was the same entry but 5k if you mkae it as opposed to 2k. I know of other people that have done the same, what about the guys that have run qualifiers and explained the system, and players that have explained it to backers, we all have to go back now and say err sorry its going to cost you more! btw You forgot to mention the question mark after "More Lies?", I hope it wasn't on purpose! I was dissapointed that they keep doing this to the players that missed out, this is a discussion forum and I wanted to hear other peoples views.


Scott,
You guessed right about my half way through comment and I don't think I'm stretching anything. Many of the players who didn't get selected first time round have listened to what KT had to say and decided that the best way to win their card was through the two open events. If you look at the numbers and chances of geting in it is much much easier than the end of year qualifiers. They where told that both open events would be $1000, for them it is effectively a 2 event points earning tour, to up the entry after they have committed to one event without warning or explanation is a terrible thing to do.

If this was a $1000 1st prize tournament people would vote with their feet and be screaming blue murder. The problem is the people on the tour have planned their lives around it and are so scared that it might go away they won't say anything when they shift the goal posts. I think we all want this thing to succeed, but if you look at what has happened in the last 6 months you will see a potential problem with their long term business model. If they are hoping to fund the tour via grass roots players and qualifiers like poker then it will never survive long term, none of us want that. Before anyone states that the money brought in is a fraction of the prize fund look at the numbers in previous posts and try to answer why they would take the PR hit and increase the qualifier entry in the way that they did (still waiting on the press release )

Isn't it ironic that when they released the press release about qualifiers I noted in a previous thread that the only thing missing was the cost of entry! I wonder why this has only ever been listed on their website which they can change in an instant?

 

[TheOne]

Good point.On a related issue it would be interesting to know if those who won a "free entry" into another qualifier (eg those who won frees during the latter sets of NA Open qualifying comps) will only now be given an entry credit to the value of their original entry (meaning they'd have to now fork out US$ 500 or US$ 250 to use their freebie at The World Open qualifying) or whether they'll be given a completely 'free' entry

...and I wonder if the selected IPT pros will now get US$ 1,500 instead of US$ 1000 for winning their challenge matches at the World Open qualifying comps.

Another good point and I believe we are all still waiting clarification on this issue now the entry has been increased!

 

[JAM]

JAM,
When the IPT was in the early days, I spent a lot of time raving about it. I had been calling for 8 ball on 9-fters to be the game of choice for sometime, and I liked a lot of the things the IPT were saying. One of the things I raved about was that they wanted the players to play in other tournaments. Then what happened? Okay. So, after much discussion and bad feedback, they resolved the issue. It still didn't look good.

Are not the IPT-ers allowed to play in other tournaments? I am not sure what you mean, TheOne, but I truly am trying to understand what is unsettling about the current state of affairs as it relates to maybe you and the players who you think have been made to look like "fools."

What still didn't look good about the IPT after "much discussion and bad feedback"?

As far as I am aware, IPT members can play in whatever tournament they desire. If they choose not to attend an IPT event, as Buddy Hall has done recently, they are not kicked off the tour. They just will not receive the points, points which has an effect on whether one holds their IPT tour card for the next season. At least this is the way I understand it.

I've done a similar thing in recent months, explaining to players how the qualification system works. I also pointed out that the world open was better value because it was the same entry...

I am unfamiliar with the "world open." Is this the WPC? Is the "world open" actually open to any living pool player around the world, or is it an "invitational" like the BCA Open? I do admit that I do not have a good knowledge base of tournaments overseas.

...but 5k if you make it as opposed to 2k. I know of other people that have done the same. What about the guys that have run qualifiers and explained the system and players that have explained it to backers? We all have to go back now and say, "Err, sorry. It's going to cost you more!"

I do wonder how many of the players who are competing in the qualifiers are backed or have stakehorses. Are these the players who you feel have been made to look like "fools"?

BTW, you forgot to mention the question mark after "More Lies?" I hope it wasn't on purpose! I was dissapointed that they keep doing this to the players that missed out. This is a discussion forum, and I wanted to hear other people's views.

The question mark was an unintentional omission on my part, but the word "lies" was glaring. It is a very strong word.

There will always be a variety of views on different topics. This is a good thing, IMHO, which is why I like AzBilliards and enjoy reading posts from people just like you, TheOne.

BTW, I like your new avatar too!

JAM

 

[TheOne]

The world open is the 2nd IPT event, I hope you know about it?

Don't really want to go through the date clash issue again, it was thrashed do death, and it seems has now been resolved.

Maybe the word Lies was too strong, it will be a very interesting few months thats for sure.

Good luck in vegas

 

[ScottW]

Scott,
You guessed right about my half way through comment and I don't think I'm stretching anything. Many of the players who didn't get selected first time round have listened to what KT had to say and decided that the best way to win their card was through the two open events. If you look at the numbers and chances of geting in it is much much easier than the end of year qualifiers. They where told that both open events would be $1000, for them it is effectively a 2 event points earning tour, to up the entry after they have committed to one event without warning or explanation is a terrible thing to do.

If this was a $1000 1st prize tournament people would vote with their feet and be screaming blue murder. The problem is the people on the tour have planned their lives around it and are so scared that it might go away they won't say anything when they shift the goal posts. I think we all want this thing to succeed, but if you look at what has happened in the last 6 months you will see a potential problem with their long term business model. If they are hoping to fund the tour via grass roots players and qualifiers like poker then it will never survive long term, none of us want that. Before anyone states that the money brought in is a fraction of the prize fund look at the numbers in previous posts and try to answer why they would take the PR hit and increase the qualifier entry in the way that they did (still waiting on the press release )

Isn't it ironic that when they released the press release about qualifiers I noted in a previous thread that the only thing missing was the cost of entry! I wonder why this has only ever been listed on their website which they can change in an instant?

I see now what you mean by "half way", i.e. the folks who planned to play in (and hopefully do well) qualifiers for both the NA and the World Open events.

But the only people who can really "plan their lives" around the IPT, currently, are the folks holding tour cards - who are guaranteed spots in those two events. Any non-cardholders who bank on winning a qualifier for each event are, IMHO, fooling themselves. The entry fee price changes don't affect the current tour card holders in the least bit (at least, I've not seen anything that implies that it will).

As far as the "free entry fees" won by folks in the challenge matches etc - again, like the people who pre-reg'd for the World qualifiers at the previous price - the IPT would be shooting themselves in their collective feet if they were to then ask for the difference in cash. It's just not good business sense, in the least bit.

And yeah, I've thought from the start (January, when I first heard about this thing and went and watched the 2-card qualifier in Atlanta) that the claims of payouts were extraordinarily high - and wondered where they were going to get all that cash? I just don't see it all coming from entry fees - the fees are too high to attract a large number of participants, repeatedly over time. I suspect that some folks who try for the qualifiers and not win will start saying to themselves "Screw that - not throwing good money after bad" and cease participating. Time will tell.

 

[jjinfla]

Talk about date clashes. Wait until you see the schedule for 2007. There will be no open dates for other tournaments through the end of July.

Besides that I suspect that the IPT players will not even bother to enter the other tournaments during that time and will commit themselves to just the IPT tour.

Why play for a couple thousand dollars when you can play for a couple hundred thousand dollars?

Jake

 

[macguy]

Talk about date clashes. Wait until you see the schedule for 2007. There will be no open dates for other tournaments through the end of July.

Besides that I suspect that the IPT players will not even bother to enter the other tournaments during that time and will commit themselves to just the IPT tour.

Why play for a couple thousand dollars when you can play for a couple hundred thousand dollars?

Jake

There is no 2007 schedule, no dates or locations.

 

[jjinfla]

When they started the qualifiers the entry fee was set at $1,000 to limit the amount of players who would enter and also to keep the quality of players high.

KT wants only the very best in the IPT.

 

[macguy]

When they started the qualifiers the entry fee was set at $1,000 to limit the amount of players who would enter and also to keep the quality of players high.

KT wants only the very best in the IPT.

So that is why they now advertize on the boadcasts, trying to get every guy and his brother (or sister) to enter? I hope you don't actually believe that.

 

[TheOne]

KT wants only the very best in the IPT.

That's why he left Wu, Engert etc etc off it lol

Thanks for the laugh Jake, I know you only post to get your kicks but still funny.