sudocrushms
Well-known member
The GC3-4s at Shooter's in MSP are 5.5" corners (with 5(?) exceptions, plus the 2 Diamonds). Those pockets are HUGE. At least until you hit the edge of the plastic pocket insert and it spits the ball back at you...
1990 US Open Sigel & Varner - 5 Inch Pockets
- Thread starter DrCue'sProtege
- Start date
Good post.
I do agree that the tourney vs gambling mindset has a lot to do with the poor tourney play we see in many of the old matches. Most of these guys were just accustomed to playing with a certain type of freedom, while today's players don't have this luxury. What's funny is the narrative is exactly the opposite. It goes something like this -- "You don't know what pressure is like, until you find yourself in a bad area, while playing for a hundred bucks with nothin' but lent in your pockets." I think the seasoned gamblers of yesteryear didn't even fear going bust. Life was simpler and cheaper. They would just start again from scratch. I think the narrative has been quite misleading.
Modern day tourney pressure is intense and it drives players towards greatness more than action does. Although action does keep the scenery interesting along the drive.
RidgeRaider
Active member
Absolutely, I love the place. Don't forget the 10ft table too!
pockets were certainly bigger but the rest of the tables and conditions were far worse and tougher to play on.
and bigger meant wider at the mouth not inside so many tables still spit out balls if hit badly especially gold crowns.
don't gage the level of todays play by those playing on brand new cloth, air conditioned space and polished balls that dont need a hard stroke.
no question the very top players in all sports today train hard and get there. where back then it wasn't so easy as most had day jobs or just played for a living every day.
but ive never seen more than a few that can now grab a stick of the wall and run a hundred. it wasn't uncommon to see someone in every poolroom that could easily do it.
the top players now are better than the top players back then. but the general pool population isn't even close in ability.
and bigger meant wider at the mouth not inside so many tables still spit out balls if hit badly especially gold crowns.
don't gage the level of todays play by those playing on brand new cloth, air conditioned space and polished balls that dont need a hard stroke.
no question the very top players in all sports today train hard and get there. where back then it wasn't so easy as most had day jobs or just played for a living every day.
but ive never seen more than a few that can now grab a stick of the wall and run a hundred. it wasn't uncommon to see someone in every poolroom that could easily do it.
the top players now are better than the top players back then. but the general pool population isn't even close in ability.
I think anyone who dominated their era has the mentality and personality to dominate any era. If the era back then were Diamond tables with 4 1/2" or less pockets, Sigel would have also been the biggest title leader. Until Joshua Filler, I really didn't think anyone was better than Sigel in his prime.
There was a tournament called the Peter Vitalie Open around 1986. @jay helfert was the director. There is a video somewhere, and pieces of it was used in Bob Byrne's standard video on pool. Pros talked about that tournament that it was near impossible to run a ball down the rail. The pockets were unfairly tight and brutal.
Sigel won.
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I know you love Sigel but I think it's pretty clear pool is an international game now, and there are a lot more great players that the tops dogs have to content with. I just don't think it's possible for anyone to really dominant 9 ball pool because of this. Now would Sigel be among the top rated Fargo players? Maybe so.
Even now, you think Filler is better than Sigel, but he's not dominating in the same fashion as Sigel did. The days of the top players getting to club baby seals for half of their tournament victories is behind us.
I know Sigel, but he was never my favorite player. Varner and Efren were. But Sigel kept winning. As I said, if Diamond had been the standard table in his era, he still would have had as many titles. It would be illogical for anyone to think otherwise. If he magically transported today, he’d have to change his game to be a top tier player, but if he had the mental fortitude to be great in his era, you would think he also would have the mental fortitude to be the best in any era. That’s what makes generational players what they proved to be in their era.
tell me if you think this cloth looks brand new or room looks air conditioned and i will tell you who the guy chalking his cue is
do you think this guy can handle tough conditions?
Outdoors. Possibly under a tent or canopy?? Looks like cloth has been hit by rain once or twice. Damn!! I'm all in on that one. Even better if the cue ball is bigger. Probly Ef or another notable from down that way.View attachment 848970
tell me if you think this cloth looks brand new or room looks air conditioned and i will tell you who the guy chalking his cue is
That's my brother. He whines.
i think it's one of those establishments with walls on three sides and a roof. it's not a picture from olden days, it's three years ago. it's the current world champion, carlo biado. (probably standing there thinking how on earth he's gonna be able to move the cb around despite being a modern day player)
I have not been there for awhile and didnt know about the 10' table. Do they still have the snooker table and both carom tables??
RidgeRaider
Active member
Yep! Still got the snooker table and carom tables, along with the bar boxes up front.
They keep those GC's in remarkably good playing condition. It may not look like it, but they're on top of the maintenance.
I've played in a few of those open air Adirondacks like that. We don't know how good we have it here!!
I get a kick out of reading about somebody being upset with getting crowded or noise levels.
Any hall here beats those shit holes!!
Call me crazy, but I liked playing w that big CB. You find them a lot in these old out of the way places in Nowheresville. Many turn out to be honey holes if farmed properly. Hu can back me up on this. We both spent a lot of time there.
I've played in a few of those open air Adirondacks like that. We don't know how good we have it here!!
I get a kick out of reading about somebody being upset with getting crowded or noise levels.
Any hall here beats those shit holes!!
Call me crazy, but I liked playing w that big CB. You find them a lot in these old out of the way places in Nowheresville. Many turn out to be honey holes if farmed properly. Hu can back me up on this. We both spent a lot of time there.
maha is shirking the thread now but the argument that modern players never saw tough conditions and don't have cue power is obviously untrue. that screenshot is from a match 3 years ago but i've seen even worse, with talcum all over the cloth and in piles on the rail. they still shoot lights out..
You can't let that kind of thing bother you. You'll never hit the zone trippin on the little things. You gotta be able to play under some harsh conditions and win. Otherwise why go in the first place?? Not exactly a tourist destination.
didnt say the top new players would not almost immediately adapt to the old conditions. just that its different and you dont need a strong stroke.
so it makes it easier for players to become top players. once you get there you should have the skills to adapt to most any conditions.
so the point is the old pros would be in the same positions against the new ones.
some couldn't or wouldn't put the effort to adapt. same as in the past some of the top pros might never have gotten there.
and those that didn't adapt to getting a stronger stroke might not be there.
so it makes it easier for players to become top players. once you get there you should have the skills to adapt to most any conditions.
so the point is the old pros would be in the same positions against the new ones.
some couldn't or wouldn't put the effort to adapt. same as in the past some of the top pros might never have gotten there.
and those that didn't adapt to getting a stronger stroke might not be there.
if elvis took up pool instead of music and acting, he would have been one of the greats
if the javelin thrower who got the gold medal in the 500BC olympics was playing gorst in nine ball today it would be a close game
if einstein never became a physicist but took up straight pool, his pattern play would have been extraordinary
if efren was born in new york and became a taxi driver, his navigation through traffic troubles in midtown would be legendary
if the javelin thrower who got the gold medal in the 500BC olympics was playing gorst in nine ball today it would be a close game
if einstein never became a physicist but took up straight pool, his pattern play would have been extraordinary
if efren was born in new york and became a taxi driver, his navigation through traffic troubles in midtown would be legendary