2010 Canadian Championships Qualifier

while i love simonis i personally like granito cloth better. but still, simonis is way up there and is a much better improvement from milliken. plus it's better for everyone if we use simonis cuz after the canadians are over, the simonis will remain on those tables and we can still use it for the rest of the year.

to further the whole getting paid to run the qualifier thing...from what grace has said, it seems that people are still going to get the spots for the same entry fee per qualifier. the only thing that has changed is that there are sponsors and the organizers are getting paid. this is a great thing actually, no money is taken from the players and the qualifiers are guaranteed to go off and be run professionally. cuz i will say this, if u wanna make sure that someone does something correctly, pay them. if they want to continue getting paid, they will continue to do the job correctly. u guys are lucky to have coop who does things for free, but there arent many that are willing to do that. so if we do have to pay them to ensure that everything is run smoothly then it would be perfect if the money was taken from sponsors and not from the players. at it stands, nothing changes with grace's proposal except for the fact that we will have more qualifiers. our money isnt being taken and everything is accounted for. it takes a lot of work and organization to run and develope a whole new system and money is needed to make sure that happens. and if the money isnt coming from our pockets then i dont mind at all that they're taking some of it.

plus, like u said, odie's already making money from it but he's doing a terrible job. i'd rather have someone like grace in there who would do a better job. she certainly knows more about this industry than odie. and all she is getting paid for is her time anyways, its not like she's pocketing a briefcase full of money after each qualifier. and like u said, the people that are currently in those positions won't want to give it up, if thats the case then its up to us as the players to do something about it to force a change. and to a certain extent that has what's been happening. it's being seen as people not supporting the sport, but i think it's more than people are not supporting the people running the sport. cuz u just have to look at the 404 at bigwigs and they constantly get lots of players there playing in it. so u have to wonder why bigwigs is so successful while the canadians seem not to be. plus it's hard to support something thats hardly there. qualifiers are run like 3 weeks before the start of whats supposed to be the biggest tournament in the country. then the tournament comes and it's gone. it's hard to support something thats barely even there. and im not blaming that on anyone but that is what it is. before anyone tells me to go and fix everything i just want to say that it's a problem that grace seems to have at least a partial answer to but she isnt being given the chance. so there it is, we have a solution but from what she has said in her posts, it has been ignored. who's fault that is i dont know...possibly odie's if what grace has said is true.
 
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If someone approached the CBSA with an Ontario association plan, board of directors, structure, sponsors, supporting halls, players support, it would be hard not to elect that new association regardless of who is running Ontario. If the new association didn't get all the spots for Ontario, the CBSA might give them 10 or so to see how they do.

You can't have one person running the show with closed books with players guessing money. I see nothing wrong having someone paid for running such association. The issue with TDs is, the value they seem to give themself. They shouldn't get $500 or $1000 to run one event for 12 hours. They have a day jobs paying $20 an hour (maybe) and at a tournament charge $50-$100 per hour. Let them get paid per player, say $2-5. The more players they call, contact, travel to rooms and talk with to support the association, the more they make. They get rewarded for doing good just like the players.

Structure, elected people and player support is all it takes. Don't expect player support by starting something new, earn it. Good way to start is only try to cover expensies until you know the new association will work and you prove value in what you offer.
 
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who does the actual voting?
do the players have a say? players are the ones paying
 
One thing is for sure, they have a long way to go to win the trust of a lot of the players out West. Until they do they will never see us.
Here's what I here from them.
first and foremost "It's not worth my time and my own expense to go to TO"
" The CBSA are all self serving"

For me personally they simply do not listen and are not open to ideas or criticism. Whenever their ability to govern or the state of affairs is questioned, to them it's the players fault and are a bunch of ingrate whiners.

Time for a new regime imo, get the right people and get this game back on track. It makes me sick to see the decline of Snooker in Canada to the point where we cannot even compete internationally at the amateur level. We have been overtaken by many countries where the game never had a long standing tradition. Considering where we were in the 80's with 4 players in the top 16 this is not acceptable.
 
Before you crucify Odie, he is the one that is running the snooker in Ontario. He currently has 14 qualifiers for snooker in the Toronto area. They are all listed on Snookerline.com.

There is not a 9-Ball director in Ontario but there are some qualifiers running. Anyone interested in stepping up and running one only needs to contact Odie. It is always easy to critisize but try getting involved and helping the sport in an actual way. Not too many are willing to do that!!
 
Mase said:
Before you crucify Odie, he is the one that is running the snooker in Ontario. He currently has 14 qualifiers for snooker in the Toronto area. They are all listed on Snookerline.com.

There is not a 9-Ball director in Ontario but there are some qualifiers running. Anyone interested in stepping up and running one only needs to contact Odie. It is always easy to critisize but try getting involved and helping the sport in an actual way. Not too many are willing to do that!!
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ummm....from what grace posted, she did contact them. she had sponsorship money and simonis supporting her but was shut down.
 
Grace's Sponsorship Money

OK, let's get something straight here. I was at the meeting with Grace, Odie and Don and unless my memory has deserted me in my old age I remember that Grace didn't have any GUARANTEED sponsorship money and all she came with to the meeting was a PROPOSAL.

We (the OBSA) were looking for someone to organize ALL of the pool in Ontario, however Grace was unwilling to do that and was only interested in running her own thing (strictly 9-ball and strictly open division).

There was no consideration for the amateur side, 8-ball, 10-ball or juniors.

It's true we don't have a Director of Pool in the OBSA and we've been trying to find someone who is willing to volunteer their time to organize all the events required but no one has ever stepped forward to take on the whole thing.

So PLEASE, quit your moaning regarding pool in Ontario and the OBSA and step up and help us out. We will be having qualifiers in the Silver Tip (once Eddie moves), Milsy's in Kitchener and likely John White will run some at Shooters. However, turn-out for these has been relatively very poor and in order to cover the spots the money comes out of the room owner's pockets or out of the player's pockets.

Snooker is running successfully in Ontario and we wanted to try and get the pool (all disciplines) organized along the same lines however there's just no one to do it (besides Grace of course, but then again we would still need someone to run the rest of it).

Also, there are qualifiers in Sudbury and Ottawa which anyone can get into.

For those who would like to change the OBSA board, PLEASE feel free to do so. All you have to do is pay your membership ($25) and then attend the bi-annual AGM and nominate your own slate of officers. But just remember you have to run EVERYTHING, not only pool but also the snooker as well.

Terry Davidson
Treasurer, OBSA
 
And another thing, regardng the Milliken vs Simonis cloths.

It seems the pool players don't care about the whole Canadian Championships but just their piece of it. Last year I'm pretty sure Jim Wych obtained the free pool cloths (plus a bit of sponsorship money I believe) from Simonis however that left John White and Shooters holding the bag on snooker cloths as Simonis wouldn't supply those.

The snooker cloths came at a cost of somewhere around $2,000 for John White.

This year, Odie has arranged for Milliken to supply BOTH the pool and snooker cloths and no one will be out of pocket.

So my question to Grace is...first of all if you have such a great relationship with Simonis then why didn't you step up this year and get free cloths for both snooker and pool? Especially since it appears yourself and a majority of the players prefer the Simonis to the Milliken.

And another point...no one in the CBSA or the OBSA is making any money from running tournaments. So far with the OBSA neither Odie, myself or John Greschner has taken one dime out of any of the player's money and it ALL goes back for the players. Admittedly this has always been snooker money right up until the Canadians because we have never been able to get pool up and running, solely due to a lack of support from ANY of the pool players (with the possible exception of Grace and her offer to run her own system and take a fee and also Mo Seto who also offered to run the women's events). Problem is, we can't have a person running the tournaments and playing in them. I know, I tried this and it doesn't work.

So, here's an appeal from Odie and Terry to all Ontario pool players. If ANYONE wants to run some qualifiers (but not play in his/her own tournaments and not take a TD's fee) then all you have to do is call Odie. This is exactly what we've done with Sudbury and Ottawa.

If the pool players are not happy with the way Ontario is being run for pool then there will be an AGM sometime in Sept/2010 and likely at the first snooker qualifier for the new season. I will be there handing out membership cards and any Ontario resident can join and then at the AGM the pool players can nominate and vote in their own slate of officers if they wish to run against Odie, myself, John Greschner and Pat McCarthy.

However, it would be my preference to split the OBSA into 2 separate organizations reporting to the CBSA. That way we could continue to run the snooker successfully as we've been doing and the pool players would have their own organization to run and qualify players for the Canadians. You could also have Grace get the free Simonis cloths for you.

All I've heard so far is a lot of talk and no action from the pool side of the house. So, WHERE'S THE BEEF??? Anyone care to step up? That first step is paying your membership dues so at least you can have a say (or do you want to sit in the bushes and snipe at people who are actually trying to accomplish something for you?)

Terry Davidson
Treasurer, OBSA
 
terrydavidson said:
OK, let's get something straight here. I was at the meeting with Grace, Odie and Don and unless my memory has deserted me in my old age I remember that Grace didn't have any GUARANTEED sponsorship money and all she came with to the meeting was a PROPOSAL.

We (the OBSA) were looking for someone to organize ALL of the pool in Ontario, however Grace was unwilling to do that and was only interested in running her own thing (strictly 9-ball and strictly open division).

There was no consideration for the amateur side, 8-ball, 10-ball or juniors.

It's true we don't have a Director of Pool in the OBSA and we've been trying to find someone who is willing to volunteer their time to organize all the events required but no one has ever stepped forward to take on the whole thing.

So PLEASE, quit your moaning regarding pool in Ontario and the OBSA and step up and help us out. We will be having qualifiers in the Silver Tip (once Eddie moves), Milsy's in Kitchener and likely John White will run some at Shooters. However, turn-out for these has been relatively very poor and in order to cover the spots the money comes out of the room owner's pockets or out of the player's pockets.

Snooker is running successfully in Ontario and we wanted to try and get the pool (all disciplines) organized along the same lines however there's just no one to do it (besides Grace of course, but then again we would still need someone to run the rest of it).

Also, there are qualifiers in Sudbury and Ottawa which anyone can get into.

For those who would like to change the OBSA board, PLEASE feel free to do so. All you have to do is pay your membership ($25) and then attend the bi-annual AGM and nominate your own slate of officers. But just remember you have to run EVERYTHING, not only pool but also the snooker as well.

Terry Davidson
Treasurer, OBSA
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To tell the players not to show concern or to stop moaning is a laugh.The players are at events to play pool.Without players you have nothing!Players should not have to help run anything,thats like walking into a restaurant and having to cook your own food.Its obvious the members on the board cant handle it and either should run it well or dont run anything at all.Last year was a prime example of the downward spiral it is going.The pool room was hot as hell with no audience and besides the snooker and amateur 9ball the other events had very little participation.My opinion is if the 404 tour can get the people to come out then their is 1 of 2 things.Either the players dont like how it is run or dont like who is running it.Either way its a lose lose situation.Players from the West will never show unless a big change is made and its hard enough to get the players from our own area to join.As far as the Grace thing,when someone makes a proposal that means what their offering is what they have.I dont think Grace would just pick these things out of blue unless she knew she had them.People should put their pride aside and let Grace do what she can.Just because she cant run a load of events shouldnt exempt her from running anything!I think anything Grace runs could not be any worse than whats happening now.Alot of people like and respect Grace as a person,that could be the best reason of all to get her in! Good luck
 
Re Grace Nakamura

I just wish to express my support for Grace, She has the expertice in pool and many other areas such as PR and promotions.
Do not forget that Grace has been actively involved in pool matters, as a matter of fact she has made a decent living from the industry as rep of cue makers as well as a player.
I met Grace years ago when my family owned a pool room and remember Grace coming to offer her support, those things don't go with out merit ...... She has demostrated for many years her love for the sport as well as her managerial skills and for what is worth I believe is time for Grace to join the ranks.
I also expect her to be remunerated for her work. If she gets added money to any tournament, that is really where she may use a part to cover her expenses, there is no other way really, any time you travel it cost money, lodge, meals plus her time, wake up people.......you can not go anywhere with out money. The added money did not exist before the promoter got to work and it has to be feasible to the local as well to the players and TD.
I would be willing to support Grace to see better pool in Canada, for everyone..... including the amateurs.

Good luck Grace

Willy Hermoza
 
Willy and others:

Grace sought to get approval for her proposal from the OBSA and to have her series of tournaments as part of the OBSA organization.

Unfortunately the OBSA has to be concerned with all the various disciplines with pool, not just the open players.

We don't know why Grace would need an OBSA sanction to set up her series of tournaments as she would be fully free to set up her own series using her sponsorship money, just as you did and as the 404 tour has done.

I don't know why this never happened.

We are still looking for some people to effectively run pool within the OBSA umbrella but it has to be for all the pool players. Odie and I are not pool players and in fact are not really interested in pool at all and it's common knowledge snooker is our main love. We find it's busy enough with just the few of us running one discipline, the snooker. There is no way any of us has the time or the money to try and run all the different pool disciplines.

Besides which, we just can't keep everyone happy no matter what we do. As someone said, this is a lose-lose situation and until someone interested in organizing pool in Ontario steps up it will remain in the same shape it is today, with just some qualifying tournaments being organized by friendly pool hall owners

Terry
 
Thanks Terry

Thank you for the note, I find there may be room to talk still.
I believe that if the action is for the players in general, they would welcome certain changes........a long time ago no body really aproved of handicaps in tournaments and today is one of the must sought formats in pool, and yes.......there are those still in wanting to play straight up...........but must always with a lesser player! The handicap really put a fix to those practices but to be effective you had to have a consistent role in tournaments and keep up with the changes.
Now days even the states Joss tour is handicapped in some form, why?.... to atract more players as well as the Viking tour having open and handicapped division and is happenning all over the US.
I feel that the Canadians need to be straight up races, b/c the winners need to challenge better players in the other competitions, but we also need to worry about the amateur players b/c they are the future of pool as well as patrons to billiards parlors.
John White and Rob Blair with partners Ken and Jimmy at Shooters and Bigwigs are a fine exemple of promoting pool in Ontario.....mind you they have a bested interest in the outcome and that is simply to promote bussines as well.
For an outsider to do this in the past or the future is not much different, they need to be compensated for their time and expenses with a dosis of reality.
There are so many people that just critizice and put it down that it takes the drive from many others........hope that changes in the future.
I would like to suggest that a meeting takes place where Grace future involvement or any other for that matter are considered, is only a few lines to ask. I now know that I would be willing to support positive changes

Willy
 
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xxxbilliards said:
Thank you for the note, I find there may be room to talk still.
I believe that if the action is for the players in general, they would welcome certain changes........a long time ago no body really aproved of handicaps in tournaments and today is one of the must sought formats in pool, and yes.......there are those still in wanting to play straight up...........but must always with a lesser player! The handicap really put a fix to those practices but to be effective you had to have a consistent role in tournaments and keep up with the changes.
Now days even the states Joss tour is handicapped in some form, why?.... to atract more players as well as the Viking tour having open and handicapped division and is happenning all over the US.
I feel that the Canadians need to be straight up races, b/c the winners need to challenge better players in the other competitions, but we also need to worry about the amateur players b/c they are the future of pool as well as patrons to billiards parlors.
John White and Rob Blair with partners Ken and Jimmy at Shooters and Bigwigs are a fine exemple of promoting pool in Ontario.....mind you they have a bested interest in the outcome and that is simply to promote bussines as well.
For an outsider to do this in the past or the future is not much different, they need to be compensated for their time and expenses with a dosis of reality.
There are so many people that just critizice and put it down that it takes the drive from many others........hope that changes in the future.
I would like to suggest that a meeting takes place where Grace future involvement or any other for that matter are considered, is only a few lines to ask. I now that I would be willing to support positive changes

Willy
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I play joss events, how is it handicapped? I play everyone straight up there!
 
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xxxbilliards said:
Mike Zuglan has announced the entry fees are handicaped from the last two events to the end of season from now on.........pros are paying full price while non-pros pay $ 70.00 except for the Casino games (25K added) is on the joss web site as well on azbilliards

http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=7534

Willy
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Ok, I knew they changed the entry, he didn't handicap players. It's still straight up races.
 
The Beginner said:
Mayweather vs. Mosley...who do you think will win?
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I hope Mosley wins but Mayweather is truly that good.This is the real superfight cause Manny Pac has no chance of beating Mayweather due to the fact that every smaller fighter that Mayweather fights he destroys with ease.If Mosley fights with the same agression he fought Margerito then he has a shot of winning,but if he fights the way he fought Ricardo Mayorga he'll get beat bad.Mosley's got a great chin which I think he'll need to pull off this victory!:)
 
scsuxci said:
I hope Mosley wins but Mayweather is truly that good.This is the real superfight cause Manny Pac has no chance of beating Mayweather due to the fact that every smaller fighter that Mayweather fights he destroys with ease.If Mosley fights with the same agression he fought Margerito then he has a shot of winning,but if he fights the way he fought Ricardo Mayorga he'll get beat bad.Mosley's got a great chin which I think he'll need to pull off this victory!:)
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I would be happy to put my money on Pacman against your Mayweather if Floyd will not chicken out on the fight against Manny hahaahahah...
 
The Beginner said:
I would be happy to put my money on Pacman against your Mayweather if Floyd will not chicken out on the fight against Manny hahaahahah...
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If they fight I will take Mayweather 100%.I like Manny,but I bet with my brain not my heart.Mayweather will hurt Manny cause he wants to.Its the promoters that keep stalling this fight not Floyd.After they fight their won't be anything else that can get this much hype with.Its all about the money!;)
 
The Beginner said:
Mayweather vs. Mosley...who do you think will win?
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Mayweather of course....the fight is either fixed or Mayweather just likes challenging fighters he know he can beat! Mosley wanted him before when he was in his prime but Mayweather dodged him lol. The fighters that Mayweather apparently "destroyed" Pacman knocked out in a couple of rounds lol.
 
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