3 balls past the side BS!!!

F

fxskater

Ryan The Salmon Arm Lynn
Silver Member
I was watching the Corey Deuel vs Danny Basavich match where off the opening break Corey did not get 3 balls past the side pocket, and gave up ball in hand. That is the most unjust, useless rule i have ever seen. Sinking a ball on the break is not a legal shot anymore? I don't like the idea of changing the game because 1 person mastered part of it, but if they are going to do it, why not issue a warning for the first offence in a match. IMHO that changed the outcome of that match, it didn't change the winner, but it did change the final score, and the history books. So now you have a player, that got so good, they felt they had to change the rules, that loses a game in what some would say is one of pool's major titles, for being too good? This is horseshit. Is there anyway we can go back to the old way? Break the balls and if you make one its your turn and if you don't you give up the table. What makes a game interesting is the diversity of the characters and the way they play the game, not hard breaking. Kind of like Kung Fu, Corey will fight you with his Crane style, and Danny can stick to his Tiger style. One guy gets up slams the balls and runs out, the other massages a ball in on the break and runs out. Just like 2 fighters fighting 2 different styles, both determined to prove that thier style is best. I know its been discussed before, but i had never seen the match, and that probably pissed me off more than any other thing I have ever seen in Pool. Including Earls antics, including cue breaking, including the HUSTLER image that some people have of the game. I dunno how the hell Corey didn't get upset, I would have gone off. Just shows what great class he has.

I have a question for Aaron. Does Corey feel PROUD that he did something so well that they felt they had to change the rules on him, or is he more just pissed off that a bunch of sissy's took one of his weapons away.

BTW, I don't think tiger should be allowed to use a wedge around the greens, i seen him make some remarkable shots that would be tough for other players to duplicate, giving him a big advantage. Its just not fair.
 
Last edited:
fxskater said:
I was watching the Corey Deuel vs Danny Basavich match where off the opening break Corey did not get 3 balls past the side pocket, and gave up ball in hand. That is the most unjust, useless rule i have ever seen. Sinking a ball on the break is not a legal shot anymore? I don't like the idea of changing the game because 1 person mastered part of it, but if they are going to do it, why not issue a warning for the first offence in a match. IMHO that changed the outcome of that match, it didn't change the winner, but it did change the final score, and the history books. So now you have a player, that got so good, they felt they had to change the rules, that loses a game in what some would say is one of pool's major titles, for being too good? This is horseshit. Is there anyway we can go back to the old way? Break the balls and if you make one its your turn and if you don't you give up the table. What makes a game interesting is the diversity of the characters and the way they play the game, not hard breaking. Kind of like Kung Fu, Corey will fight you with his Crane style, and Danny can stick to his Tiger style. One guy gets up slams the balls and runs out, the other massages a ball in on the break and runs out. Just like 2 fighters fighting 2 different styles, both determined to prove that thier style is best. I know its been discussed before, but i had never seen the match, and that probably pissed me off more than any other thing I have ever seen in Pool. Including Earls antics, including cue breaking, including the HUSTLER image that some people have of the game. I dunno how the hell Corey didn't get upset, I would have gone off. Just shows what great class he has.

I have a question for Aaron. Does Corey feel PROUD that he did something so well that they felt they had to change the rules on him, or is he more just pissed off that a bunch of sissy's took one of his weapons away.

BTW, I don't think tiger should be allowed to use a wedge around the greens, i seen him make some remarkable shots that would be tough for other players to duplicate, giving him a big advantage. Its just not fair.
Click to expand...
Dude, get a life.
 
Look at all the rule changes in pro basketball because of Wilt Chamberlain. Once a sport has been mastered, it is no longer a sport and needs to be changed. Is Corey the Wilt of pool? Not even close but he did find a weakness in the lousy game of nine ball. 10 ball is the solution, I think.
 
Know where you're coming from, FX. It would be a little ridiculous to outlaw something just because someone has mastered a skill. As I'll explain, though, this wasn't the reason.

Pool is one of many sports that changes rules to do what it believes adds to the entertainment level. Let's consider some other sports:

In basketball, as noted by Hooked, imagine how Wilt Chamberlain felt when the dunk was outlawed. At the time, the NBA brass felt that dunking was compromising the game's excitement level. Time has proven that they guessed wrong, for, as we now know, the fans love the dunk. Thankfully, dunking was reinstated after a short experiment without it.

On the other hand, college basketball guessed right when they added a shot clock about twenty years ago. The use of stall tactics, most notably those of the North Carolina Tarheels basketball team, was taking some of the excitement out of the game. College basketball's popularity has skyrocketed since the shot clock was added.

In baseball, after the batting title was won by Carl Yastrzemski with a .301 average, the pitcher's mound was lowered, ushering in an era of greater offense, and, of course, higher earned run averages. The fans seem to like the increased offense, so baseball guessed right.

In ice hockey, the NHL has made a change effective in the coming season, in which the two line pass will be permitted for the first time in the modern era of hockey. Hockey is guessing that this will add scoring which will increase the game's appeal and excitement level. We shall see.

And finally .......... pool has taken steps to rid itself of the soft break, which Deuel and Corr had mastered. The three balls past the side rule is an attempt by pool to make the game more exciting to the fans. You may count me among those who feel that the soft break makes the game less exciting to watch. Still, the jury is still out.
 
I think it should only be a foul if less than three balls pass the side AND no ball is made on the break. If a ball is made, the inning continues. Then if Deuel or other players want to risk it, it's their choice, and adds a bit of drama to the soft break.

I also agree that 10 ball would probably be a better solution.
 
shinobi said:
I think it should only be a foul if less than three balls pass the side AND no ball is made on the break. If a ball is made, the inning continues. Then if Deuel or other players want to risk it, it's their choice, and adds a bit of drama to the soft break.

I also agree that 10 ball would probably be a better solution.
Click to expand...

I agree 100 percent.If he learned how then they should have to to stay with the rest of field.Also if you slow break and dont make a ball then you most likely got ran out on.
 
Tap, Tap, Tap. Shinobi. Thats the best idea yet. If you wanna risk it, go for it, but if you dont make a ball, give up ball in hand.

And to the poster that says 'Get a Life'. This is a pool forum, for discussing pool topics. If you don't like the topic, don't read it. Didn't your mom tell you 'If you don't have anything nice to say......'. Soft breaking is an issue that bothers me, especially when someone gets penalized for making a ball on the break.
 
fxskater said:
Tap, Tap, Tap. Shinobi. Thats the best idea yet. If you wanna risk it, go for it, but if you dont make a ball, give up ball in hand.

And to the poster that says 'Get a Life'. This is a pool forum, for discussing pool topics. If you don't like the topic, don't read it. Didn't your mom tell you 'If you don't have anything nice to say......'. Soft breaking is an issue that bothers me, especially when someone gets penalized for making a ball on the break.
Click to expand...
You are right. The break is the biggest problem with 9-ball. Adding more balls is the only solution, imho.

unknownpro
 
sjm said:
Pool is one of many sports that changes rules to do what it believes adds to the entertainment level. Let's consider some other sports:
Click to expand...
You make a point that I fundamentally disagree with. The current "play to the crowd" ethic is disturbing. It's simply another form of creeping commercialism. I like the game in a pure state; properly racked, basic TX Express. To hell with the audience who can't appreciate it. Let them learn the art of the game or leave. The idea of catering rules to an ignorant or instant-nipple generation with short attention spans diminishes the game, and in this case, Corey's effort of mastering the break in his own (previously legal) way.

As far as a comparison to the rule changes of other sports - they're just the result of same mass-appeal commercialism.

I'm not ignorant to the financial aspect - I just don't like it.
 
Last edited:
i also enjoy watching a run out from a softly broken rack. it is much more challenging then the balls spread wide open and no clusters
 
Fat Ivory said:
The idea of catering rules to an ignorant or instant-nipple generation with short attention spans diminishes the game,.
Click to expand...

FI,
Very true; but of course nine-ball it became the television game just to cater to the same short attention span generation. It would be very hard to diminish such a game any further than it already is.

Signed,
Straight Pool Fanatic
 
Rumor has it Corey has a ten-ball break figured out too, so don't be too upset if they switch to 10-ball and he's still gently plopping a ball in and running out on the break.
 
Fat Ivory said:
I like the game in a pure state; properly racked, basic TX Express.
Click to expand...

Anyone else with a minimum of longevity with this game understands the basic irony of this sentence. The Texas Express rules were invented also to speed up the game, in effect, changing it from what was closer to "pure 9-ball." So was "one foul ball in hand."

Where would we be without modifications? We wouldn't have the various games of 14.1, one-pocket, 9-ball, and banks. We wouldn't have phenolic balls with numbers on them. We wouldn't have leather tips (certainly an unfair advantage).

We might not have pockets or rubber cushions. Hell, we might not have pool tables at all, and we'd all be playing soccer (er..foootball) with balls made up of straw and cow chips.

Fred <~~~ without change, there would be no butterflies
 
sjm said:
Pool is one of many sports that changes rules to do what it believes adds to the entertainment level. Pool has taken steps to rid itself of the soft break, which Deuel and Corr had mastered. The three balls past the side rule is an attempt by pool to make the game more exciting to the fans. You may count me among those who feel that the soft break makes the game less exciting to watch. Still, the jury is still out.
Click to expand...

The rule changes for Pocket Billiard games, so they fit TV, may be something we all have problems with. However, we don't have to adopt them in our local play. Just have your Room Owner post the modifications that you & your fellow players want to play by & that's that.

I have one fellow player that is a "master of leave play", plus he can play very well too. If we play & the "one foul rule" is modified to "2 shot roll-out", the game is no longer a 10-7 sided game. The other consolation is this, "both players have to play within the rules, on the same playing field".

The last tip I have for all is to master the Break Shot by practicing it. In 2 weeks you'll enhance your skills by 50%. Surely there is some kid in your Pool Room that will rack balls for $5 an hour. Practice on a good table with a "good spot", not a table with a crater on the spot. Have your caddy rack the balls well & start off at a line, just past the side pockets. You are looking for the line to make a wing ball on the break or make the 1 Ball in the side. When you have the line, return to the KITCHEN for the break. In 2 weeks you'll be the the local break shot artist. Good Luck
 
Hi, Fred: I don't think Fat is objecting to all change; I think he's objecting to a specific rule change because he thinks it weakens play. Some of the rule changes that have been implemented to increase audience interest in various sports have also made those sports more satisfying for the players, but that may not be the case with this rule change. I think Fat's attitude is that he doesn't want to see 9-ball dumbed down to make it more appealing to TV audiences of non-playing goofs.--AS
 
Last edited:
ceebee said:
The rule changes for Pocket Billiard games, so they fit TV, may be something we all have problems with. However, we don't have to adopt them in our local play. Just have your Room Owner post the modifications that you & your fellow players want to play by & that's that.

I have one fellow player that is a "master of leave play", plus he can play very well too. If we play & the "one foul rule" is modified to "2 shot roll-out", the game is no longer a 10-7 sided game. The other consolation is this, "both players have to play within the rules, on the same playing field".

The last tip I have for all is to master the Break Shot by practicing it. In 2 weeks you'll enhance your skills by 50%. Surely there is some kid in your Pool Room that will rack balls for $5 an hour. Practice on a good table with a "good spot", not a table with a crater on the spot. Have your caddy rack the balls well & start off at a line, just past the side pockets. You are looking for the line to make a wing ball on the break or make the 1 Ball in the side. When you have the line, return to the KITCHEN for the break. In 2 weeks you'll be the the local break shot artist. Good Luck
Click to expand...

I didn't start playing 9-ball seriously until the one foul rule was adopted (Snooker and Rotation for me!). To me it makes for a much much better game of 9-ball, as it rewards good defense, which is sometimes the only real option, and makes you pay for screwing up and hooking yourself.

You say to practice the breaks, but which breaks? If you have a perfect rack it is a completely different game, with a completely different break. There are now two games of 9-ball, old shit-rack nine-ball and perfect rack 9-ball. You can practice breaking a bad rack (always bad if 9 rolls out on break) till you're blue in the face and not have a shot of winning with a perfect rack, and vice-versa. This is the major problem in 9-ball tournaments and needs to be solved.

The perfect rack is the greatest advancement in pool in our lifetimes and needs to be made good use of. IMHO, the only way to do this is to add more balls to the table. Breaking 12-ball with a perfect rack will give you 2-4 balls on the break consistently, leaving 8-10 balls on the table most of the time. I have made 6 many, many times (almost every day), so I think 9-ball players must look to changing their game, not the rules.

unknownpro
 
Captain said:
Hi, Fred: I don't think Fat is objecting to all change; I think he's objecting to a specific rule change because he thinks it weakens play.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter to me what he meant. He said "pure" and "Texas Express." Either used the wrong word, or doesn't know the history of the game. Which do you think? It sounded like the latter to me.


Some of the rule changes that have been implemented to increase audience interest in various sports have also made those sports more satisfying for the players, but that may not be the case with this rule change.
Click to expand...
I disagree. I think this rule was specifically to make sure that the players didn't make the break boring.

Fred <~~~ has no answers

With any rule change, it has good intentions. Whether or not it stands the scrutiny of the players and the industry is the question.
 
I always wellcome the changes for common good.But in this case I question the intent of the change in the rule.To my mind this is nothing but ganging up against corey.I LOST respect for the pros who are behind this COUP.
Vagabond
 
Fred Agnir said:
Anyone else with a minimum of longevity with this game understands the basic irony of this sentence. The Texas Express rules were invented also to speed up the game, in effect, changing it from what was closer to "pure 9-ball." So was "one foul ball in hand."

Where would we be without modifications? We wouldn't have the various games of 14.1, one-pocket, 9-ball, and banks. We wouldn't have phenolic balls with numbers on them. We wouldn't have leather tips (certainly an unfair advantage).

We might not have pockets or rubber cushions. Hell, we might not have pool tables at all, and we'd all be playing soccer (er..foootball) with balls made up of straw and cow chips.

Fred <~~~ without change, there would be no butterflies
Click to expand...

Ah, Fred, I've read your posts. You seem to need to be right all the time, and you're pretty smarmy about it. TXE rules have been accepted as the norm because it doesn't penalize the incoming player after a scratch, and allows uncomplicated handicapping as well. It's based on sound judjment with fairness in mind. It has indeed sped up the game, but that's a by-product. I don't know about your cowchips and butterflies - please keep it on topic.
 
Fat Ivory said:
Ah, Fred, I've read your posts. You seem to need to be right all the time, and you're pretty smarmy about it. TXE rules have been accepted as the norm because it doesn't penalize the incoming player after a scratch, and allows uncomplicated handicapping as well. It's based on sound judjment with fairness in mind. It has indeed sped up the game, but that's a by-product. I don't know about your cowchips and butterflies - please keep it on topic.
Click to expand...

Did you actually read my post??? I was obviously remarking on your use of the word "pure" while at the same time using Texas Express as an example. Harldy any need for me to be right on anything. Do you have any comment on that, or would you rather just insult me?

Fred
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top