3 Shafts Comparison

[skor]

In a post I made at the Rhino Must thread, I wrote about a great night I had with going back to the 314-2 shaft, leaving the CF shafts back in the case/home.
I've done comparisons in the past and got certain results but the fact that I played so well with the 314-2 shaft, a bit overwhelmed me, and it wasn't a one time thing as at a second session I had with a different cue and a different 314 shaft, again I was shooting better than average.

I thought maybe as I got back into stroke since I got back to the game, maybe my previous comparisons were not that great.
Over the last 6 months or so since I returned to the game, I came to a realization that deflection tests don't tell us the whole truth and the whole story.
And testing a deflection is not the same as dealing with it while normal play.

So tonight I took 3 shafts with the same joint that all fit the same butt, my Carmeli 8 points, my favorite player...
Here are the shafts specs:

All the shafts specs are in the same ball park, the only "major" difference is the Rhino self balance point.
To be honest, while playing with all 3, those differences did not feel noticeable.

The idea of this comparison is to shoot with all those shafts just as I normally does lately with the Revo 12.9mm or the 314-2, which means, I don't compensate for deflection and shoot parallel to the line of the shot.
I was playing 8-Ball with a friend as we usually play 8-Ball on Saturdays to practice for League (on Monday)

First shaft that went on the cue was the Rhino.
I haven't used the Rhino in a long time. It felt a bit dead, not as lively as the 314-2 or the Revo. The Rhino has a Kamui Tan Hard tip on it and still, I needed to put more power into the shot to move the CB around. This effected my normal stroke and I was missing long shots even without spin.
While using spin, on most shots it worked just fine, but on long shots or if I had to apply some more speed like using a bottom side, I missed the shots.

Next came the Cynergy turn. It has still the original tip on it - Tiger Sniper which is soft-medium. The Cynergy felt more alive but not by much. Everything else was quite the same as the Rhino, I missed the same type of shots.

Next came the 314-2 shaft, this one has a Kamui Tan Clear Medium on it. Right from my first shot, it was completely different and for the better, the shaft was more alive and provided more action on the CB. I was missing less shots, both long or with extreme spin.

This session brought me to the conclusion that both the Rhino and Cynergy are very similar when it comes to deflection but I do prefer the balance of the Cynergy better.
Both cause more cue ball deflection than the Predator 314-2 (I need to fix my list on that Must thread...), I also noticed that both cause more throw than the 314-2.

Here is a type of shot that comes a lot in a game, and I missed them all with the Rhino and the Cynergy but made them 95% of the time with the 314
On all attempt I kept the cue parallel to the line o the shot and applied bottom with side

I'm not saying that the Cynergy or the Rhino are bad shafts, and with practice and getting used to, they will perform just great.
And by getting used to, means to find the right tip for them that will make them feel better for me, and to learn their deflection characteristics and learn to adjust to them.

But for me and my stroke and aim at this point in time, the 314-2 and the Revo 12.9 work more naturally, I don't need to think about it too much. So I think that I'll stick to these 2 shafts for now and the rest will go back to storage. As a matter of fact, I think that I'll be going back to the 314-2 shafts for the time being, although I still believe that CF is the future and the way to go.

 

[mikemosconi]

The most satisfaction that I get playing pool these days is loading up the cue ball with tons of inside English on a six foot shot - making the ball and getting perfect shape - all with a plain maple shaft - no thought of deflection - just knowing the cue and where to aim - isn’t that what the real challenge of the game was meant to be?

 

[skor]

The most satisfaction that I get playing pool these days is loading up the cue ball with tons of inside English on a six foot shot - making the ball and getting perfect shape - all with a plain maple shaft - no thought of deflection - just knowing the cue and where to aim - isn’t that what the real challenge of the game was meant to be?

Everyone has different challenges and goals.

 

[HawaiianEye]

The most satisfaction that I get playing pool these days is loading up the cue ball with tons of inside English on a six foot shot - making the ball and getting perfect shape - all with a plain maple shaft - no thought of deflection - just knowing the cue and where to aim - isn’t that what the real challenge of the game was meant to be?

Inside is your friend.

Many players get queasy if they have to let the dogs loose with a ton of inside.

Those are some of my favorite shots.

Too many people are hooked on outside English.

 

[mikemosconi]

The end goal of the game will always be to make the ball and gain shape.

The degree of challenge that a person accepts and what means they use to meet that challenge defines their character.

 

[skogstokig]

the 314 and 314-2 are great shafts. i get the maintenance benefits of CF but it's not for me. there's a reason predator has had to push sponsored players from 314 and Z to revo. and now kaci is back with his old 314-2..

The most satisfaction that I get playing pool these days is loading up the cue ball with tons of inside English on a six foot shot - making the ball and getting perfect shape - all with a plain maple shaft - no thought of deflection - just knowing the cue and where to aim - isn’t that what the real challenge of the game was meant to be?

not really? we all learned to compensate, it's not rocket science. and compensation isn't fully gone with LD, probably never will be, it's just less pronounced. only thing i think is better/easier with high deflection shafts is masse shots

 

[maha]

you just learn where to aim and hit with the different kinds of speed and english you use and its second nature.

most times you are using the centerline of the cue ball or very close to it so it doesnt matter. if not you are playing position wrong or badly.

 

[skor]

the 314 and 314-2 are great shafts. i get the maintenance benefits of CF but it's not for me. there's a reason predator has had to push sponsored players from 314 and Z to revo. and now kaci is back with his old 314-2..

The 314-2 is indeed a great shaft, I got 7 of them...

 

[gregcantrall]

Inside is your friend.

Many players get queasy if they have to let the dogs loose with a ton of inside.

Those are some of my favorite shots.

Too many people are hooked on outside English.

That brings a favorite straight back bank to mind. One with a guaranteed kiss.
Aim it wide enough to miss the kiss but load it up with inside. A thing of beauty when it splits the pocket with a rooster tail. Big ☺.

 

[hang-the-9]

The reason you miss the shot in your diagram is due to different deflection between the shafts not that they are "better" than another. That is all in how the player is used to aiming and shooting in general. There are probably a dozen different ways players differ in their aim and stroke, and that all contributes to what shaft they play better with.

 

[skor]

The reason you miss the shot in your diagram is due to different deflection between the shafts not that they are "better" than another. That is all in how the player is used to aiming and shooting in general. There are probably a dozen different ways players differ in their aim and stroke, and that all contributes to what shaft they play better with.

As I wrote, I wasn’t compensating for the shafts and played them with parallel cue to the line of the shot.
With the pace of the shots, I made them with the 314-2 and missed with the Cynergy and Rhino, which shows that the 314-2 produced less cue ball deflection

 

[garczar]

The end goal of the game will always be to make the ball and gain shape.

The degree of challenge that a person accepts and what means they use to meet that challenge defines their character.

WTF. So just because you choose old-school equipment you have more character? Do you have ANY idea just how off-kilter that sounds?? Lets look at it like this: you are a total beginner or have only played a little while. Are you going to choose equipment that makes the game harder? This is analogous to a golfer going in the pro shop and asking for persimmon woods and skinny blade irons. I like old-school cues too but if i was a tournament player or a action hunter there is zero doubt i'd go with modern lo-def shafts. The more guesswork/compensation i can remove just seems like a no-brainer. I tried using my Jensen with ivory ferrules the other day. I couldn't make a ball. I cannot believe i use to play good with this stuff. Of course i was playing every day of the week then too.

 

[mikemosconi]

My feeling is, has been , and always will be that equipment choice is certainly up to the individual. Along with this, I fell strongly that both golf and now pool have descended into - for many if not most players- a race to techno superiority - whereas years ago greats only relied on skill and hard work.
I’m proud to be old school not stubborn, I want to be satisfied with my play despite the deficiencies of yesteryears equipment compared to that of today - because I feel a reverence to those who kept this game alive when it might have died here a long, long time ago.
The strokes are robotic now, the cues make it easier to hit your target, the cloth and tables add speed and power with less effort and the balls open up like a thrown bucket of water.
Everyone choose your own path to success- I just want to hold onto a small piece of how I started 60 + years ago on our home table to what has become a lifetime of love and challenge with this great game.
I am so happy that both of my sons remain avid players approaching their forties and they have home tables as well as great cue knowledge , which they enjoy as well. So the legacy continues.
I do not mean to offend anyone and sorry if some feel that way.

 

[skor]

My feeling is, has been , and always will be that equipment choice is certainly up to the individual. Along with this, I fell strongly that both golf and now pool have descended into - for many if not most players- a race to techno superiority - whereas years ago greats only relied on skill and hard work.
I’m proud to be old school not stubborn, I want to be satisfied with my play despite the deficiencies of yesteryears equipment compared to that of today - because I feel a reverence to those who kept this game alive when it might have died here a long, long time ago.
The strokes are robotic now, the cues make it easier to hit your target, the cloth and tables add speed and power with less effort and the balls open up like a thrown bucket of water.
Everyone choose your own path to success- I just want to hold onto a small piece of how I started 60 + years ago on our home table to what has become a lifetime of love and challenge with this great game.
I do not mean to offend anyone and sorry if some feel that way.

I still use old film cameras for my personal photography, but if I need to do a pro commercial job I will always choose the best hi tech, modern camera I can get (unless the customer wants film...)
I'll take out an old school solid maple shaft every now and then when I have a session with friends for the fun of it and I do own them so why not use them right? but I will choose my best player and lowest deflection shaft when I need to compete.
If I was young and looking to become a pro, I wouldn't do that, not to confuse myself and stick to one shaft, the one that feels and perform best for me. In my case, it'll probably have a cat logo on it.

 

[skogstokig]

My feeling is, has been , and always will be that equipment choice is certainly up to the individual. Along with this, I fell strongly that both golf and now pool have descended into - for many if not most players- a race to techno superiority - whereas years ago greats only relied on skill and hard work.
I’m proud to be old school not stubborn, I want to be satisfied with my play despite the deficiencies of yesteryears equipment compared to that of today - because I feel a reverence to those who kept this game alive when it might have died here a long, long time ago.
The strokes are robotic now, the cues make it easier to hit your target,

the cues don't make it easier to hit your target, it's just a slightly different method. the chinese heyballers still use maple shafts to a high degree, and in their game there's a lot more money at stake. if your contention was true, choosing maple shafts would be very irrational of them. snooker, same thing. in american pool, ko ping chung recently won the world 10b championship with a plain maple shaft. doesn't make him better than the others, it's just a slightly different method.

 

[SSP]

the 314 and 314-2 are great shafts. i get the maintenance benefits of CF but it's not for me. there's a reason predator has had to push sponsored players from 314 and Z to revo. and now kaci is back with his old 314-2..



not really? we all learned to compensate, it's not rocket science. and compensation isn't fully gone with LD, probably never will be, it's just less pronounced. only thing i think is better/easier with high deflection shafts is masse shots

LD = low deflection, that means you still have to compensate for the shaft you are using, IMHO the only advantage CF has over wood shafts is consistency, if you are using a high quality CF shaft and you have a spare shaft they should play identical, I have found that this is not the case with a wood shaft, both the shafts I owned played good but there was a noticeable difference between the two so I had my favorite shaft and my spare shaft, with the CF shafts I can't feel any difference in them.

 

[skor]

LD = low deflection, that means you still have to compensate for the shaft you are using, IMHO the only advantage CF has over wood shafts is consistency, if you are using a high quality CF shaft and you have a spare shaft they should play identical, I have found that this is not the case with a wood shaft, both the shafts I owned played good but there was a noticeable difference between the two so I had my favorite shaft and my spare shaft, with the CF shafts I can't feel any difference in them.

Well, that's just the thing. with all LD shafts you don't need to compensate in certain shots, either the deflection is low enough for the width of the pockets to accept the ball or that the swerve compensate for it.
All LD shafts need to compensate for an extreme powerful shot, but how often do you use spin on such shots?
From my experience, with the 314-2 and the Revo 12.9mm, there is no need to compensate on any shot other then extreme powerful shots.
This makes these shafts easier to use as there is no need to guess how much to compensate.