30 days to beat the 10-ball ghost with TOI

Straightpool_99 said:
This will be a review of the TOI system over 30 days of INTENSIVE training with the purpose at the end to finally beat the 10-ball ghost in an extended race. I hope to post a video at the end. Currently I'm pretty much even with the 9-ball ghost, beating it most of the time, but barely so. Recently I was completely embarrased by the 10-ball ghost test, showing me that there is a long way to go.

I've tried every aiming system there is: Aiming by the numbers, CTE, SEE-system etc but I always return to the ghost ball. The problem with all of these systems is that at the moment you shoot, your stick is aiming into the open air, or at an ill defined part of the ball most of the time. This, for me, leads to anxiety, steering and holding back the shot. Also the pivot systems require extreme care in the setup, which ruin my rhytm and makes me more tense.

My motives for this review are just to try out TOI, as a last alternative to the ghost ball method and to see wether you can teach an adult dog new tricks. Maybe some problems will arise that will help myself and others understand the method better. I will not be posting every day, just when something interesting happens.The method seems almost tailor made to my needs, shots should be hit with firm speed, you always aim at either the edge or the center of the ball and there is no elaborate and complicated terminology or set-up procedure. I have of course watched the pay per view several times.

Day 1: Rome wasn't built in a day.

I had made the promise to myself that all determinations of tip offsets and wether I should aim at the center or the edge of the object ball should be made while standing up. I also shoot only at either the center or the edge, not shooting ghostball and then adding TOI. So the procedure for me is the following:

1: Visualize the shot and required tip-offset.
2: Find the line from the tip offset to the object ball aimpoint and put the cue on the line. Then evaluate the shot angle again.
3: Go down forming the stance around the cue line
4: Practise stroke 3 times, no more no less
5: Accellerate through the ball looking at objectball aimpoint
6: Evalute results, NO NEGATIVITY ALLOWED!

The positive:
Ok, I expected it to be difficult to determine the cueball tip offset, but it wasn't. Sure I missed a couple of shots to start with but then I started making shots and hardly missed any. After all these years of playing and trying stuff, it seemed that I allready knew how to aim these shots all along. I was honestly shocked by this! None of the other systems felt this way. Also it seemed as if the visualisation was easier when the cue was actually almost touching the cueball, that was less suprising.

I was equally shocked by the fact that my cue was feeling very different. I can't describe it, but I'll try: it was like it had become extremely soft hitting all of a sudden. And then I noticed why: I was going far, far through the cueball almost to the joint actually! I didn't try to maintain my snooker fundamentals I just let the elbow drop and the cue go through, and it did so on a straight line! Also there was no steering or hesitation in the stroke. I have a predator Z2 shaft on a custom butt btw.

I was making shots like crazy, and never steered a single ball! I don't know if I can ever go back to ghost ball now, and this is only the first day! I hope this is not one of those freak days where everything went right and then I end up going back to how it was before. I'm trying to make an unbiased review and end up sounding like an infomercial, lol.:grin:

The negative:
I didn't actually play a game I just threw the balls out and ran them off, sometimes in rotation and sometimes not, but I did have some problems with position play, especially when the object ball was on the rail. So I am not sure how I will perform in actual play yet.

Also, for some shots more than "a touch" of inside is needed so on these shots control of the cueball is more difficult.

I will set up some drills for day 2 and see how I do on those.
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Awesome... cant wait to see the results and the videos...


i find that i am undershooting alot of my shape shots now, ones that i used to overrun all the time using outside.. but once i feel like its dialed in the ball just glides to the spot... pretty nifty.... still find myself wanting to use outside on some shape shots so i have been lining up with inside and then moving the tip over... hits nice..

I am working on the 7 ball ghost myself beating it in a head set--- i beat the 6 ball ghost 10 ahead and now im tackling the 7.. Parica once me that if you can beat the 7 ball ghost and play strong safeties, you can compete with anyone on a given day even champions..

Beat the 10 ball ghost and you're a monster.... Cool stuff...
 
When using the TOI technique it's vitally important to use the same approximate S.S.

JayCall said:
Awesome... cant wait to see the results and the videos...


i find that i am undershooting alot of my shape shots now, ones that i used to overrun all the time using outside.. but once i feel like its dialed in the ball just glides to the spot... pretty nifty.... still find myself wanting to use outside on some shape shots so i have been lining up with inside and then moving the tip over... hits nice..

I am working on the 7 ball ghost myself beating it in a head set--- i beat the 6 ball ghost 10 ahead and now im tackling the 7.. Parica once me that if you can beat the 7 ball ghost and play strong safeties, you can compete with anyone on a given day even champions..

Beat the 10 ball ghost and you're a monster.... Cool stuff...
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This is typical because with the Touch of Inside it's like you're not using a "heavier cue ball". The cue ball is 6 oz. so it's very light to be hitting with a 19-20 oz cue so when using "outside english" it feels like the cue ball becomes lighter and moves more easily around the table. This may seem like a positive thing, however because of the reduced effort you actually lose control and touch, especially under pressure.

When using the TOI technique it's vitally important to use the same approximate "shot speed". This enables you to get into a better rhythm and amplifies feel and touch.

Think of it like pitching a coin to a spot on the floor, would you be more consistent if the distance was different every time or the same? This is the same thing with the speed that you're moving the cue, the more consistent the speed, the more consistent the results.....and the more control you will discover in your complete game.

The players that get through the initial 3 hours of TOI Training will discover a new dimension in their game. Is 3 hours too much time to reach this higher level of play? For some it actually is, but I'm convinced that they, subconsciously don't want the pressure of playing much better.

This is just human nature, those that battle through this initiation period will reap the reward, and those that don't, simply won't..... such is life. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
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Welcome to the TOI club.

Its amazing to see balls drop time after time. Your position play will come with practice.

good luck with your journey.
 
Aside from not making a ball, the break wasn't that bad. You did have a makeable shot on the one ball. If you can do that a lot, and start making a ball or two, you'll be just fine.

It's hard to comment on your fundamentals because it's so dark. The only thing I really can comment on fundamentally (which you already touched on) is the elevated cue. The first step in improving is accepting you have flaws. Since you're already aware of this certain issue, the next step would be to practice on lowering the butt of your cue.

As for your patterns, they definitely need some work, as does your speed control. However, you're a great shotmaker, which I suspect gets you out of trouble a lot.

Best of luck
 
TOI does quickly make us face reality about our fundamentals.

Straightpool_99 said:
Progress report.

So, I have been suffering some major setbacks in my quest to beat the ghost. First I realized that my fundamentals were not good enough to use toi. I was making balls but the cueball was spinning all over the place. Because my cue was to elevated, i did not get enough deflection and the ball was spinning in.

I levelled out my cue and things went slightly better but still the cueball control is nowhere near good enough. And sadly I had to change my stroke a lot, causing me to lose power. When the object ball is near a rail the cueball wants to reverse or shorten up no matter how little inside I put on the cueball. This is huge because it severly limits the number of available angles. I get the heavy cueball effect on stun shots but the cueball does have inside on it, its not without spin.

Also my compact digital camera has a 10 minute video limit, so I have to get a new camera to record a race to 30 which is my goal. At present I'd realisticly expect to get only to 20 in such a race.
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TOI does quickly make us face reality about our fundamentals. Many players don't "real eyes" how many adjustments they are subconsciously making to play pool.

When I'm training someone I start removing the need to make these adjustments so more an more of your total "mental horsepower" can be used to play the game.....not create fundamental mistakes.
 
Try a shorter bridge...it will help you on the steering issues and works better with TOI (for me, anyway). I think you might have an issue on footwork...I can't see it in the video, but your line is different almost every time you get down on the ball. Keeping your forward foot closer to parallel with the stick line might be a helpful place to start. I use my rear foot big toe as a guide for the stick line, with my forward foot parallel. It's a consistent placement for me on all shots, although whatever foot placement you have that's comfortable and balanced is fine; so long as it's consistent.

It took me about 3 weeks to dial it in...at that point, everything was recalibrated to account for the TOI in my placement and line, and now I come down on that line without even thinking about it. I wouldn't expect great success against the ghost until you get to that point.

Good luck, I'm subscribing!!! :)
 
that foundation is hitting the cue ball straight and pure, time after time.

Straightpool_99 said:
Ok here is another progress report. I played the 10-ball ghost dead even to 10 yesterday. I watched the video and it was painful. The balls are not going in cleanly and its plain as day that I will not beat the ghost convincingly without major changes to my stroke and general fundamentals. If I don't care about the flaws in my stroke I can play at this level fairly consistently, but the minute I stop steering balls in the level of play drops, and I don't think I can do any better with my current fundamentals. My fundamentals used to be good, but I took a two year break and they deteriorated badly.

I've been playing with a strong local player recently and he has pointed out some major areas that need improvements. He was kind enough to show me somethings I could do, but it with the deadline I set for myself coming in it does not seem possible to make the changes fast enough. It was clear as day during a couple of games of straight pool, in which I was completely humiliated, that we are playing different games. He shoots balls in the center of the pockets and I am rattling them in and missing too often. When I use TOI there is a small improvement in pocketing but the problems remain. A lot of things can be said of pattern play and the like in straight pool, but if you just don't miss you're going to run a lot of balls.
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The one thing about using the "Touch of Inside" is it will certainly be a "wake up call" if you're not hitting the cue ball accurately.

The good news is many players go for 20 years and never "real eyes" their cue ball targeting and stroke accuracy are poor because they subconsciously make adjustments and actually play fairly well (at times). The problem presents it's self under pressure, the ones that play poorly under pressure simply have a poor foundation.....and that foundation is hitting the cue ball straight and pure, time after time.....without that foundation built in your game there's no other levels you can truly build......and under pressure it all comes crashing down.

Work on your fundamentals, my 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' Video describe the pre shot routine that I use in detail. It's under $5 at www.cjwiley.com - right now ALL of my videos can be seen for that one price for 24 hours.

Do your homework, The Game is the Teacher'
 
West Point 1987 said:
Try a shorter bridge...it will help you on the steering issues and works better with TOI (for me, anyway). I think you might have an issue on footwork...I can't see it in the video, but your line is different almost every time you get down on the ball. Keeping your forward foot closer to parallel with the stick line might be a helpful place to start. I use my rear foot big toe as a guide for the stick line, with my forward foot parallel. It's a consistent placement for me on all shots, although whatever foot placement you have that's comfortable and balanced is fine; so long as it's consistent.

It took me about 3 weeks to dial it in...at that point, everything was recalibrated to account for the TOI in my placement and line, and now I come down on that line without even thinking about it. I wouldn't expect great success against the ghost until you get to that point.

Good luck, I'm subscribing!!! :)
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This is a very solid point. body placement and bridge placement are crucial (to me anyway) of realing making TOI work. When I line up and get down on the ball like CJ instructed I rarely miss anything. If I get too sloppy and take a shot for granted and have a long bridge that is where problems happen. Also you will be amazed on the cueball control you have when you really shorten you bridge. Absolutey blew my mind on draws and all kinds of wild make the cue ball do this kind of things that I couldn't come close to doing with a long bridge. Good luck !
 
I recommend experimenting with sliding your fingers into the shot -

Houstoer said:
This is a very solid point. body placement and bridge placement are crucial (to me anyway) of realing making TOI work. When I line up and get down on the ball like CJ instructed I rarely miss anything. If I get too sloppy and take a shot for granted and have a long bridge that is where problems happen. Also you will be amazed on the cueball control you have when you really shorten you bridge. Absolutey blew my mind on draws and all kinds of wild make the cue ball do this kind of things that I couldn't come close to doing with a long bridge. Good luck !
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I agree, placing the left hand properly is crucial.....I recommend experimenting with sliding your fingers into the shot - this promotes a feeling of being connected to the line of the shot.
 
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