3C Carom Cues, differences from pool cues

[olgoat]

Since 3C is really just another excuse to buy another cue for me I have started investigating what different characteristics are required for a good carom cue.

I shoot with a 58" 19oz Ed Young exclusively for pool with a phenolic wood to wood joint, 3/-11 joint screw and 13mm tip,linen wrap (I prefer a wood wrap and will be going back to one in the near future, if Ed ever gets my cue finished). The balance is neutral to slightly forward. Shaft and butt have a Kersenbrock taper.

Is a replacement shaft for a pool butt a viable option for a carom cue?

I understand carom cues are generally shorter and the tip diameters offered appear to be closer to 12mm or less. Wood joint screws?

What about weights? Do most 3C players perfer cues lighter than 19 oz? What are the benefits of going with a lighter cue? Increase stroke speed?

Shafts of maple versus hornbeam? What types of taper are prefered for 3C? Conical or some other taper?

Tim

 

[JPB]

Check out ron kilby's site for the differences. They tend to be shorter, lighter, balanced more to the rear, with a stiff taper and smaller tip.

 

[3kushn]

Check out ron kilby's site for the differences. They tend to be shorter, lighter, balanced more to the rear, with a stiff taper and smaller tip.

Ditto.

At the very least get a carom shaft for your pool cue. Rearward balance helps to get the CB to run rather than in pool digging into the CB with stop shots and short rolls and draws.

Most of the players are using lighter cues under 20oz and 18oz about average. I hear of more pool players doing the same. IMO power comes from technique not the weight of the club.

Check out www.cuemaker.com as well as Kilby for various descriptions in cue design.

 

[Rich93]

Since 3C is really just another excuse to buy another cue for me I have started investigating what different characteristics are required for a good carom cue.

I shoot with a 58" 19oz Ed Young exclusively for pool with a phenolic wood to wood joint, 3/-11 joint screw and 13mm tip,linen wrap (I prefer a wood wrap and will be going back to one in the near future, if Ed ever gets my cue finished). The balance is neutral to slightly forward. Shaft and butt have a Kersenbrock taper.

Is a replacement shaft for a pool butt a viable option for a carom cue?

I understand carom cues are generally shorter and the tip diameters offered appear to be closer to 12mm or less. Wood joint screws?

What about weights? Do most 3C players perfer cues lighter than 19 oz? What are the benefits of going with a lighter cue? Increase stroke speed?

Shafts of maple versus hornbeam? What types of taper are prefered for 3C? Conical or some other taper?

Tim

I think you're better off sticking with your regular cue. You mainly shoot pool, right? And you'll continue to do so? Well, then ....

One day you shoot pool with a 19 oz 58" cue with a 13mm tip and pro taper, the next day you shoot 3C with a 18oz 56" cue with a 12mm tip and conical taper. I don't think you'll adjust very easily - especially to the taper. You'll want to burn that conical taper shaft.

Check out the thread from a few days ago of Torbjorn Blomdahl shooting 9 ball with Efren. He was using his shorty billiard cue and even breaking with it. He played great. I'm sure Efren was using his regular pool cue to play 3C with Blomdahl, and he played pretty sporty 3C.

For the record, I play both games with the same cue. There are many reasons why I don't play pool like Efren or 3C like Blomdahl, but I am certain my cue is not one of them.

 

[3kushn]

I'll agree to a point that using the same cue has some advantages but a carom cue is made for the game. I'd imagine that someone could paly tennis with a racket ball racket or visa versa and two pros of the two sports could probably play well at it and yes if the rackets were switched for each player there would be a learning curve.

As far as the straight European taper that most players use in Europe there are modified tapers that aren't as drastic and a lot easier to get used to while at the same time give you the spine that's required for good play. With this setup the only thing that doesn't comply is the balance point. This is why I suggested to simply get a shaft made. Later you can decide if you want to go full bore and get a dedicated cue.

 

[Rich93]

I don't mean to run down billiard cues - I use one myself, more or less. My cue is 57", 19.25oz, and has a Schuler European taper. So it has pool cue length and weight but a carom taper, and taper is the thing that really defines a billiard cue.

I don't feel at any disadvantage playing pool with it. I much prefer it to a pro taper, though I didn't at the beginning. It takes getting used to.

I said you would want to burn that carom taper based on experience - all pool players who ever took a swing with my cue immediately noticed the taper and didn't like it. And my taper is not as extreme as a conical taper.

I would hate to see you spend a lot on a new cue and then not like it, and the odds favor that happening. You'll think it's too short, too light and too hard to slide through your fingers. 3kush's suggestion of just buying a carom shaft is a good idea. That way you won't be out much if you decide to play with your regular cue.

I think a billiard taper is better for playing billiards - but then I think it's better for playing pool also (and I seem to be alone in the latter opinion). But mainly I think it doesn't make a lot of difference.

 

[JPB]

I think you're better off sticking with your regular cue. You mainly shoot pool, right? And you'll continue to do so? Well, then ....

One day you shoot pool with a 19 oz 58" cue with a 13mm tip and pro taper, the next day you shoot 3C with a 18oz 56" cue with a 12mm tip and conical taper. I don't think you'll adjust very easily - especially to the taper. You'll want to burn that conical taper shaft.

Check out the thread from a few days ago of Torbjorn Blomdahl shooting 9 ball with Efren. He was using his shorty billiard cue and even breaking with it. He played great. I'm sure Efren was using his regular pool cue to play 3C with Blomdahl, and he played pretty sporty 3C.

For the record, I play both games with the same cue. There are many reasons why I don't play pool like Efren or 3C like Blomdahl, but I am certain my cue is not one of them.

I think this is proably right, but I needed an excuse to get mroe cues. Probably shouldn't have. I seldom get to play billiards anymore. But the last 2 times I had the chance I played with a house cue and my pool cue. The various billiards sticks were in the closet. Oh well. So maybe i should focus on me rahter than the cue, huh, since I am pretty sure where the problem is.

 

[predator]

Most pool cues would not be good for 3C. They tend to vibrate too much...carom balls are quite a bit heavier...

 

[eeng168]

Most pool cues would not be good for 3C. They tend to vibrate too much...carom balls are quite a bit heavier...

I agree...

I tried hitting the balls with a pool cue and when I struck the ball, I thought my pool cue broke from the vibration. The carom balls are simply just too heavy.

I have about 20+ pool cues but I bought 1 plain Helmstetter carom cue just to play around with. Came with 2 shafts, nice butterfly design on it, it was only $400-450. (can't remember exactly.

 

[fjc]

differences

ok even tough I´m just learning how to play 3c, I have played with both my pool cue and my carom cue. I agree that the only differrence that you will encounter its the fell of the hit, the carom cues with wood pin and conical tapper will hit really hard, but other than that you can play really nice with a regular pool cue.( even snooker cues, my dad is using one as his carom back up cue).

FJC

 

[billiardshot]

Didn't Willie Hoppe use a Herman Rambow's Cue and Welker Cochran use a Harvey Martin's Cue in a video Deno Andrews put on Youtube.

I was not fortune to see Allen Gilbert play, but he did use a Martin's Cue.
So when did American switch to a carom cue as use in Europe?

 

[Rich93]

Didn't Willie Hoppe use a Herman Rambow's Cue and Welker Cochran use a Harvey Martin's Cue in a video Deno Andrews put on Youtube.

I was not fortune to see Allen Gilbert play, but he did use a Martin's Cue.
So when did American switch to a carom cue as use in Europe?

I think in later years Allen Gilbert used a Schuler.

 

[mbvl]

Didn't Willie Hoppe use a Herman Rambow's Cue and Welker Cochran use a Harvey Martin's Cue in a video Deno Andrews put on Youtube.

I was not fortune to see Allen Gilbert play, but he did use a Martin's Cue.
So when did American switch to a carom cue as use in Europe?

In the late 60's and throughout the 70's almost all top American three-cushion players used Rambows or Martins. Allen Gilbert used a Martin. After the 1978 World Championships in Las Vegas (won by Ceulemans with a 1.6 average) the American players began moving toward cues more like the ones used by the Europeans. Ray Schuler was the leader of this movement, and by the early 80's almost all of the top Americans (Gilbert, Torres, Ashby) had Schuler cues. Bert Schrager also made carom-specific cues that were in wide use. Not long after that the Helmstetter line came along.

Interestingly, Schuler learned the trade from Rambow, and Schrager from Martin. Continuing that tradition, Dennis Dieckman got started by working for Bert.

(I have played with Martins, Schulers, Schragers, and Helmstetters, but my all-time favorite is the Dieckman that Dennis made for me ten years ago.)

Mark

 

[billiardshot]

Mark, Thank for this info very enlighten. Were the early Martin or Rambow cue more on the heavy weight side 19 to 20oz, and what were the type of shaft taper before '78?

I just received 2 carom cues from Dieckman - one a wooden pin and the other a radial pin make to Sang Lee specs.
Bob Watson

 

[mbvl]

Mark, Thank for this info very enlighten. Were the early Martin or Rambow cue more on the heavy weight side 19 to 20oz, and what were the type of shaft taper before '78?

I just received 2 carom cues from Dieckman - one a wooden pin and the other a radial pin make to Sang Lee specs.
Bob Watson

I have never owned or even played with a Rambow, but from just looking at the ones other players had I would guess that they were, indeed, 19 or 20 ounces, and they all had "professional" tapers (like pool cues). My Martin (and all the others I saw) were the same as the Rambows. I never had a conical tapered cue until my first Helmstetter in the early 80s. My Dieckman came with Komori taper shafts, and more recently Dennis made me some Shooni taper shafts.

Mark

 

[Black-Balled]

I think this is proably right, but I needed an excuse to get mroe cues. ...

THat's the spirit! I have both pool cues and carom cues and am of the opinion that playing billiards with a pool cue is like jogging in loafers: it can be done!

Get the carom cue!