7-footer advice?

Andrew Manning

Andrew Manning

Aspiring know-it-all
Silver Member
So I play in the APA, in an 8-ball division where all of our matches are on 9-foot tables. I've improved a lot in the last couple years playing on these tables, and I'm rated a 6 at 9-foot 8-ball.

My team has qualified for a regional tournament, which is played on 7-foot tables, and while I've hit balls on bar tables, I've never played serious competitive 8-ball on them. Neither have a few of my teammates, and for this tournament, I'm the best/most knowledgeable player on my team who will be in attendance, so I'll be doing most or all of the coaching.

So my question is, what advice can anyone out their offer that is specific to 7-foot 8-ball, given that I'm already fairly familiar with the game on the 9-foot tables? I've heard that the game is very different and more strategic on the small table, but I'm looking for something specific I can use at this tournament tomorrow.

Thanks,
Andrew
 
The best advice is to study the groups really well after the break and look for problem balls. You will see a lot more clusters, blocked pockets, and balls on the rail. Because the 7' table will have so much more clutter you will have to be much more precise with cue ball control. The good thing about dropping in table size is pocketing balls will seem much easier.

Good luck.
 
metal5d said:
The best advice is to study the groups really well after the break and look for problem balls. You will see a lot more clusters, blocked pockets, and balls on the rail. Because the 7' table will have so much more clutter you will have to be much more precise with cue ball control. The good thing about dropping in table size is pocketing balls will seem much easier.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

Very good advice.

Most of what I can add is from this book;
PYB8B.jpg


He covers differences between big table and bar table pool using diagrams, illustrations, and text.

He emphasizes working on specialty shots, like shooting off the rail, over balls, kicks, breaking out clusters, things that come up on more frequently on bar tables. Also dealing with table runoff common on bar tables, and when to shoot side pocket shots, and the difference in angles from the small bar table side pockets vs. the larger pockets found on a full size table.

Again, he covers this in depth. Not to mention a great deal of great information about eight ball, that applies to any size table. This is a great book, and I recommend it to anybody who plays eight ball.

And, you can lend it to your players when your done with it!
 
My best advice is if after the break the table looks almost impossible to run, choose the best group to take and then miss early. Let your opponent make some of their balls and when they can't go any farther, you will have a much better chance to either clear the table or play safe since most of their balls are gone. 8-ball on a bar table is much like a chess game. If clusters exist on both groups of balls, usually the first person to get their balls untangled wins. Try to position your balls behind theirs and near the pocket while at the same time try to cluster their balls together. If the table looks open with only 1 or 2balls tied up with balls around them that you may be able to break them loose, then go for the runout. The best defense is a great offense!

That's my 2 cents!
 
I agree with gutshot. I'll add that early look for lock up safety positions as much as you do shots. If you can make a ball or two then get ball in hand to help untangle your remaining problems balls, you can sometimes get out. This works well if you have only one or two problem areas that are relatively easy to unravel. Also, remember you are making a huge change in table size so you won't need near the speed that you do on a 9'. You'll find that smaller movements are required and that a half inch makes a much bigger difference. Immediately you'll notice how much fewer opportunities you will have. Good luck to you and your teammates.
 
Andrew Manning said:
...(snip)So my question is, what advice can anyone out their offer that is specific to 7-foot 8-ball, given that I'm already fairly familiar with the game on the 9-foot tables? I've heard that the game is very different and more strategic on the small table, but I'm looking for something specific I can use at this tournament tomorrow.

Thanks,
Andrew
Click to expand...
I've shot on the tables you'll be playing a number of times, as have my players. The tables are very fast, both the rails and the cloth -- 7' diamonds with tight pockets. The pockets are not so narrow (probably 4.5"), but the shelves are very deep, making it easy to rattle and hang balls. I suspect the way the tables play will be much more of a concern than adjusting to the fact that the balls are generally more crowded, which is of greatest concern when you're trading run-outs.

Even for you, and even moreso for your less skilled players, you'll find the tables play very, very different from what you're all used to. You'll be at constant risk of overshaping, and shots should be played softer whenever possible. This should both avoid rattling shots and overshaping. Also, they have a tournament every Friday night at 7:00. The absolute best way to get ready is to go play on the tables tonight.

The good news is that, at least among league players, the crowded balls should favor the player more inclined to play safe. Knowing you, this should play to your team's advantage.

Cory
 
A few things I have noticed

1- long shots
9footers -- makes it much more difficult and can be used as a safety
7 footer -- not as effective .. most long shots are still only in the
5-6 foot range.
2- Long rail banks
9 footers -- in league pool leaving these shots are very effective
most players dont have a high percentage of making them
7 footers -- the more accessable pockets and reduced distance to
the shots make the %'s alot higher on a bar table. Even lower rated
players are able to get these to fall.
3 -- clusters
9 footers -- not many cluster and alot of room to work on them and
around them
7 footers -- more clusters ... harder to move around them
4 -- mental
9 footers -- seem to keep players more aware of hard shots and
when and how to play safe
7 footers -- closer relations tend to make players believe that they
can run out from anywhere.

I would suggest playing some on 7 footers first. Notice the difference is manevuering up and down the table. IMO you have to be more precise on
a 9 footer than a 7 footer. On a bar box playing simpler patterns and less routes coming out of the corners seems to help.
Learn where you can aim on the side rails when shooting towards the corners. Theres alot more room for error or pocket cheating than on
a big table.
good luck
 
gutshot said:
My best advice is if after the break the table looks almost impossible to run, choose the best group to take and then miss early. Let your opponent make some of their balls and when they can't go any farther, you will have a much better chance to either clear the table or play safe since most of their balls are gone. 8-ball on a bar table is much like a chess game. If clusters exist on both groups of balls, usually the first person to get their balls untangled wins. Try to position your balls behind theirs and near the pocket while at the same time try to cluster their balls together. If the table looks open with only 1 or 2balls tied up with balls around them that you may be able to break them loose, then go for the runout. The best defense is a great offense!
Click to expand...

This is great advice for bar table 8 ball and i'd like to add one tip that was given to me by a pro player. When you decide to go for the run out on a bar table you must get out or you will certainly lose the game if you are playing a good player. Be patient if the table looks impossible to run out on and let your opponent make the first mistake and you'll win a lot of games!

SCCues
 
Be aware that many bar box cueballs are much heavier and larger than what you are probably used to playing with, and behave much differently. I played at a bar box tournament last week with 6 tables. Half of the tables had large heavy "mud" cueballs, and half had almost normal cueballs, and it was tough to adjust from game to game. If you get time to practice on the tables, I suggest focusing on how the cueball reacts.
 
SCCues said:
This is great advice for bar table 8 ball and i'd like to add one tip that was given to me by a pro player. When you decide to go for the run out on a bar table you must get out or you will certainly lose the game if you are playing a good player. Be patient if the table looks impossible to run out on and let your opponent make the first mistake and you'll win a lot of games!

SCCues
Click to expand...

This is something I'll try to emphasize to those of my players that "go for" run-outs. We have a 5 and a 4/5 on my team who are both prone to leaving their problems for late in the run and selling out an open runout to their opponent when they miss (of course I myself NEVER commit this grievous mental error :rolleyes:). For tomorrow, I'll try to make my team's philosophy be let your opponent do the hard work and make the costly mistakes. As long as it's early in the rack and there are still problems, sounds like we need to make sure we're not afraid to duck.

Thanks for the heads up about the tables, Cory, I'll try to make sure everyone on my team is well aware of the tendency to hang balls and play long on position. Anybody else have experience with the Alexandria Fast Eddie's to share?

-Andrew
 
desert1pocket said:
Be aware that many bar box cueballs are much heavier and larger than what you are probably used to playing with, and behave much differently. I played at a bar box tournament last week with 6 tables. Half of the tables had large heavy "mud" cueballs, and half had almost normal cueballs, and it was tough to adjust from game to game. If you get time to practice on the tables, I suggest focusing on how the cueball reacts.
Click to expand...
I should add that the tables where Andrew will be playing are not coin-op. The cue ball is the same size and weight as the others. I think that even if they were coin-up, Diamond cue balls are still the same weight and size as the rest of the balls.
 
If you think you can run out:

Keep it simple. use them least amount of movement with the CB possible. Clear your balls off in quadrants and pick balls to carry you over to the next quadrant early. You're first or second shot should be taking you towards any clusters or trouble so you can get them out of the way early. Save a ball near a pocket as back a up ball in case you get tied up after breaking up clusters.

If not, look for a lock up safety, then play one or two balls that set you up for it.

Good luck
 
I agree with what the other posters have added so far. I would like to add a my $.02. Have you ever done the drill Brainwash? Some call it dynamite. You can have a competitive friendly wager amongst teammates with this.

If you don't know how to play its played like this: Put all 15 balls on the table at random. All balls must be at least 6 inches apart and 6 inches from the rail. The cueball cannot hit a rail or any other ball. All shots have to be straight in. No combos or caroms etc. Run all the balls off. If you miss or foul your run is over.

This game really fine tunes your short (distance) position play which is critical on a small table.

Say 5 guys are playing. You can handicap the weaker players by giving them a few balls after a practice round. Lets say you wager a little and the scores are as follows: 15, 10, 9, 6, and 5. At a rate of $0.25 a ball you would pay out as follows. The 5 pays the 6 ($2.50) ten balls worth, the six pays the 9 9 balls worth, the 9 pays the ten 6 balls worth, and the 10 pays the 15 5 balls worth.

I don't know if you guys have the time for this or not.

Also Gregg posted that specialty shots should be practiced and I highly recommend that.
 
Hopefully you won't be forced to play with the mud cueball, but anyway, I'd REALLY recommend you ask Keith McCready on his own forum. There's no one more qualified.

I haven't read the other posts yet, so I apologize for any possible redundancy:

1) beware of the side pockets if they are disproportionally tight;
2) have no bones about leaving yourself longer or tougher shots, you'll make them;
3) going into balls is just a fact of life on the barbox. so I'd look for opportunities to not only break clusters but create clusters for my opponent EVERY time I can. You should have a plan for every ball you bump (I'm sure you already know that);
4) look for caroms, billiards, combos (follow-ins included), rail first shots, banks, kicks, and combinations of those: they come up much more often. If you got hangers, you usually have the opportunity to acomplish several strategic objectives by comboing, caroming, or billiarding, rather than pocketing straight in the hole;
5) if the table is in good condition, use the rails more often. Play the extra rail often so you don't get ON the rail which tends to happen in a smaller surface with divots;
6) throw, inside, kill shots, stuns, drag and stop shots are everything on the barbox because an inch makes all the difference. You can really load it up because you don't need to be as accurate with the shotmaking, but be careful 'cause on coarse equipment everything grabs more;
7) bump balls to hold position;
8) play agressive even when playing safeties. Strategy alone won't get you very far;
9) The second ball break tends to work a little better on the barbox. My limited experience;
10) Keyballs become more important when the 8 is in a tight spot. Also, don't overlook opportunities to bump one of your balls into a break ball position after making a ball. Those come up all the time;
11) Refuse to play unless they have a regulation size cueball;

Good luck man, and let us know how you did!
 
Last edited:
Playing 8 ball on a bar-box is like playing bumper pool if you are used to playing on a Nina "9' Table".....

you're in closed quarters on a bar-box and even the best breaks yeilds a large amount of tied up balls and clusters. You gotta learn to pick your battles better as you will play a lot more safetys on a bar box.

I break and run more racks on my 9'er than on my old bar box because I have more room to move the ball around and less tied up balls.

You owe it to yourself to go practice on a bar box for a few hours to get more used to them....

I hate em....
 
Thanks for all the tips, everyone. My team won our fist match, but lost the second. I did get several compliments from the opposing teams on the advice I gave my teammates during time-outs. My first match was forfeited to me when the other team found out they didn't have enough players to beat us, and in my second match I beat the opposing team's 3-handicap 5-0. Even though I was expecting it to be a big difference, I was still amazed how cramped and tiny a 7' diamond pro-am looks after being used to 9' gold crowns. I loved how I could shoot full table banks without worrying about the shot being too long to make! I also really enjoyed the tight-but-fair diamond pockets. Wayyyy better than the other place I used to play with diamond tables where they don't take care of them and the pocket facings have cupped and the cloth rolls funny. Those are tight and by no means fair. You never know if a ball's going to drop or not until you see it drop, no matter how well it looks like you hit it. Anyway, thanks for the good advice!

-Andrew
 
lewdo26 said:
Hopefully you won't be forced to play with the mud cueball, but anyway, I'd REALLY recommend you ask Keith McCready on his own forum. There's no one more qualified.

I haven't read the other posts yet, so I apologize for any possible redundancy:

1) beware of the side pockets if they are disproportionally tight;
2) have no bones about leaving yourself longer or tougher shots, you'll make them;
3) going into balls is just a fact of life on the barbox. so I'd look for opportunities to not only break clusters but create clusters for my opponent EVERY time I can. You should have a plan for every ball you bump (I'm sure you already know that);
4) look for caroms, billiards, combos (follow-ins included), rail first shots, banks, kicks, and combinations of those: they come up much more often. If you got hangers, you usually have the opportunity to acomplish several strategic objectives by comboing, caroming, or billiarding, rather than pocketing straight in the hole;
5) if the table is in good condition, use the rails more often. Play the extra rail often so you don't get ON the rail which tends to happen in a smaller surface with divots;
6) throw, inside, kill shots, stuns, drag and stop shots are everything on the barbox because an inch makes all the difference. You can really load it up because you don't need to be as accurate with the shotmaking, but be careful 'cause on coarse equipment everything grabs more;
7) bump balls to hold position;
8) play agressive even when playing safeties. Strategy alone won't get you very far;
9) The second ball break tends to work a little better on the barbox. My limited experience;
10) Keyballs become more important when the 8 is in a tight spot. Also, don't overlook opportunities to bump one of your balls into a break ball position after making a ball. Those come up all the time;
11) Refuse to play unless they have a regulation size cueball;

Good luck man, and let us know how you did!
Click to expand...

Great, great adivce.

You get my very first AZ billards "Tap Tap Tap!" and some rep!
 
Andrew Manning said:
I also really enjoyed the tight-but-fair diamond pockets. Wayyyy better than the other place I used to play with diamond tables where they don't take care of them and the pocket facings have cupped and the cloth rolls funny. Those are tight and by no means fair. You never know if a ball's going to drop or not until you see it drop, no matter how well it looks like you hit it. Anyway, thanks for the good advice!

-Andrew
Click to expand...
Playing on a 7' Diamond table is similar, but still different than playing on a 7' Dynamo/Valley bar table. Just for what it's worth.

You WILL bank short on a Valley bar box. The cushions/rails are more difficult to bridge.

I'm glad that there wasn't the often-seen advice of "bar tables are easy if you play on 9' tables."

Fred
 
Andrew, really a lot of great suggestions here. I'd like to expand on one key regarding the different weight cueballs and how they react on different cloth.

When I get on a strange table, the first thing I want to know is the stroke I'll need to stop the cueball at various distances. This tells me not only what it takes to stop it, but how to hit it to ensure a stun shot tangent. Also, knowing how to stop it dead gives you a pretty good idea how to play stun follow and stun draw for the precise position required on crowded bar boxes.

One last thing, since it is really difficult to draw the heavy mudball cueball on slow cloth, I'll play patterns with follow, avoiding draw, whenever I can.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top