8 ball break your own rack

N

ndakotan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I play in a local barbox 8 ball league and they are starting "break your own rack" for the first time and the only rack rules are that the 8 ball must be in the middle (no random rule like 9 ball). 8-ball on the break is not a win. I consider myself an honest player that plays within the rules. Given that, I have a few questions:

1. Can pattern racking for the 1st ball break or 2nd ball break help make more of one suit?

2. Would you let someone break if they racked above or below the spot? How about if the rack is tilted?

3. Does anyone believe in the medium-hard break vs the hard break? From what spot?

4. Does a tight rack break better than a loose rack?

5. Any advice on successful racking/breaking?
 
I'm staying away from this thread. I'm taking the 5th all the way. I'm not going to incriminate myself.
 
ndakotan said:
2. Would you let someone break if they racked above or below the spot? How about if the rack is tilted?
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NO!!!

head ball on the spot and reasonably square are things I INSIST on in a rack. regardless of whether I am breaking or not

If you cannot give me a tight, square rack with the ball on the spot ..

I will make you do it again... I insist on those 3 things in every rack.
 
8-ball break

I'm going to qualify my remarks by saying that I am just an above average player (BCA 7), not a pro or even considering the idea of going pro. But I have played a lot of barbox 8-ball (approximately 40,000 games lifetime with over 90 8-ball breaks, most racks run in a tournament: 11).

I would rather break a tight rack than a loose one, especially since I use a medium hard stroke (bad shoulder). In tournaments I break from about 2 inches of the side rail at the string, aiming for a full second ball hit, inside english. I keep a flat stroke. Some call this an 8-ball break as the 8 will sometimes drop in the side pocket. However, this is not my objective. This break does two things for me. It generally drops at least one ball and creates a good 8-ball dispersion. That means I get a few clusters which I can then use for safety play. It also keeps most of the balls near the rack end of the table. Meaning fewer table length shots.

As for rack position, maybe I've played too many games in bars, because honestly I don't really care if the rack is slightly tilted or slightly (1 to 1.5 inches?) in front of or behind the spot. However, most people rack the same way over and over, so given enough games you can learn what a player's rack tendencies are over time.

The only thing I care about is if it's tight. I've broken enough racks to know how to make an adjustment for off-spot racks. Also, in my experience very few bar players can consistently run a table ( or even 5 consecutive balls), so the break advantage is not as important to me as it would be against very good players.

Now when I rack for myself or my opponent, I rack it to the spot and as level as possible. It's just common courtesy.

If the above break isn't working I start breaking closer to the middle diamond on the head rail. My favorite position is about midway between the middle diamond and the right diamond about 10 inches off the rail. I'll move the CB about a half diameter left or right on subsequent breaks looking for an ideal spot. Same stroke though. This one generally breaks the balls more, meaning fewer clusters. Also, I usually have to aim slightly off full on the 1st ball to reliably pocket a ball on the break. Generally I try to give this break a little more gas, since pocketing is usually tougher than off the side rail.

Hope that helps.

Richard
 
A local league that I play in changed to rack-your-own this year as well. When we were playing the first night of leagues last week, our captain informed us of this change. He encouraged us all to at least look at your opponent's rack before he cracks it just to make sure it's square, etc. I'm going to review my copy of Charlie Bond's "The Great Break Shot" for tips on things to look for.
 
I could'nt have said it better

rkim99 said:
I'm going to qualify my remarks by saying that I am just an above average player (BCA 7), not a pro or even considering the idea of going pro. But I have played a lot of barbox 8-ball (approximately 40,000 games lifetime with over 90 8-ball breaks, most racks run in a tournament: 11).

I would rather break a tight rack than a loose one, especially since I use a medium hard stroke (bad shoulder). In tournaments I break from about 2 inches of the side rail at the string, aiming for a full second ball hit, inside english. I keep a flat stroke. Some call this an 8-ball break as the 8 will sometimes drop in the side pocket. However, this is not my objective. This break does two things for me. It generally drops at least one ball and creates a good 8-ball dispersion. That means I get a few clusters which I can then use for safety play. It also keeps most of the balls near the rack end of the table. Meaning fewer table length shots.

As for rack position, maybe I've played too many games in bars, because honestly I don't really care if the rack is slightly tilted or slightly (1 to 1.5 inches?) in front of or behind the spot. However, most people rack the same way over and over, so given enough games you can learn what a player's rack tendencies are over time.

The only thing I care about is if it's tight. I've broken enough racks to know how to make an adjustment for off-spot racks. Also, in my experience very few bar players can consistently run a table ( or even 5 consecutive balls), so the break advantage is not as important to me as it would be against very good players.

Now when I rack for myself or my opponent, I rack it to the spot and as level as possible. It's just common courtesy.

If the above break isn't working I start breaking closer to the middle diamond on the head rail. My favorite position is about midway between the middle diamond and the right diamond about 10 inches off the rail. I'll move the CB about a half diameter left or right on subsequent breaks looking for an ideal spot. Same stroke though. This one generally breaks the balls more, meaning fewer clusters. Also, I usually have to aim slightly off full on the 1st ball to reliably pocket a ball on the break. Generally I try to give this break a little more gas, since pocketing is usually tougher than off the side rail.

Hope that helps.

Richard
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Very good advice. I would add that a med break from the side (For me) is ideal. Too hard and you just congest the table on the right or left side (depends on break side).

I think 9 ball is a much better game to think about hard breaking
 
You really should just buy joe tucket racking secrets and the great break shot.

It really will REALLY elevate your game if you know what I'm saying.
 
Most of the time

There is a rule that you must have a stripe and a solid on the bottom corners of the rack.
 
Few rules

Snapshot9 said:
There is a rule that you must have a stripe and a solid on the bottom corners of the rack.
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Not in this league, only rules are 8 in the middle and 8 on the break is a re-rack.

Someone could put all of the stripes on one side or all in back or some other pattern and be legal. I've seen Racking Secrets and most of that 8 ball section is making the 8 ball, which doesn't help. I have not read charlie bond's book lately, will re-review.

We have a league meeting this week to start the league off, and I am going to ask what keeps someone from tilting the rack or racking off the spot to their advantage since there is no rule on how to rack.
 
I have a question

Why do many people insist or prefer to have the head ball on the spot?

When racking for others I often move the head ball in front of the spot to get a tight rack.I do the same when racking for myself but the other day I did see 2 players arguing about this in a rack your own situation.

Just wondering as I do not know :)
 
why?

smoooothstroke said:
Why do many people insist or prefer to have the head ball on the spot?

When racking for others I often move the head ball in front of the spot to get a tight rack.I do the same when racking for myself but the other day I did see 2 players arguing about this in a rack your own situation.

Just wondering as I do not know :)
Click to expand...

To me there is no difference between 1/2 inch from the spot v.s. 6 inches from the spot. If you could move it ahead (towards the head rail) 6 inches, you (as the racker and the breaker) might have a good chance of making both wing balls. If you move it back (towards the foot rail) 6 inches, you may not have a chance of making anything.

In order for there to be rules, you have to say something definitive for everybody to follow. The rule isn't that the balls be at the bottom half of the table in a loose cluster of balls, they have to be racked in a triangle at the foot spot. You don't see racks off the spot in professional pool.

If someone tried to rack for me on the spot and the head ball rolled off, I would look at it. People think that there is a dent in the table there, which there isn't. The cloth is usually compressed there due to some idiot banging a ball into the table. This can usually be alleviated by rubbing your hand over the table (with some pressure) to stretch the cloth a little. Sometimes there is a dent in the spot (due to someone abusing the table), which is hard to make right, so I let them rack off the spot a little, recognizing that we are not playing with ideal conditions.

I must be a stickler for the rules, because most people are blase about it. On the other hand, a Sardo rack used to cost more than $100 and people were buying them.

This is all very bad for "rack your own" matches. There are still going to be arguements about the racks, so why not keep it "rack for your opponent"?
 
I wish racking your own was the rule everywhere for every game. It is a skill on its own..........

Tight rack, I think if they rack above or below the spot/tilt the rack its going to lessen the chance of them making a ball. I am not aware of it being a clear advantage to rack above or below/tilt in 8-ball.

I prefer to break from the box in 8 ball because breaking hard is Manly. When the cloth is new then you would be crazy not to use the 2nd ball break IMO. One main thing I look when breaking from the box is there needs to be a 3 ball track of frozen balls consisting of the head ball, second ball, and the 8-ball. Then I break on the opposite side, that the 1st 2nd and 8-ball is frozen.

If I can't get them to stick I hit the second ball that is touching the most balls in the rack with outside english bringing the cueball back into the balls off of one rail..................

Side break doesn't need to be hit that hard if the rack is right. As far as hitting the head ball I think it depends on the table usually harder is better.

It also depends on the player I am playing as far as how/where I am going to break. The lesser players I just bust em up from the box. The main problem with hitting the balls hard is the increased chance of scratching. Lesser players wont run out often but good ones will a lot with a big spread. Good player i am hitting the second ball because when it works well it usually is a good opportunity to run out. When hit badly the worse that will happen is there is a tough out for your opponent which only the best will be play correctly, MOSt of the time..................

Having said all of this somtimes I play people that can't rack and I get huge spreads sometimes with the most terrible racks. I have not figured out why this is.
 
smoooothstroke said:
Why do many people insist or prefer to have the head ball on the spot?

When racking for others I often move the head ball in front of the spot to get a tight rack.I do the same when racking for myself but the other day I did see 2 players arguing about this in a rack your own situation.

Just wondering as I do not know :)
Click to expand...

Do you insist that the breaker put the cueball behind the line to break? The reason in both cases is because the rule says that's where it goes.
 
ndakotan said:
There are still going to be arguements about the racks, so why not keep it "rack for your opponent"?
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There are way less arguments in rack-your-own. Also, don't forget that sometimes people don't argue, but they just accept a faulty rack to avoid the hassle of trying to get someone to go against their natural tendency to give you a bad rack. So I should say, there are less arguments AND less hard feelings in rack-your-own.

Particularly for 8-ball where the 8 on the break is not a win, rack-for-each-other makes little sense. Rack-your-own makes all kinds of sense. If you want something done right, you've got to do it yourself.

I don't know what people are worried about with rack-your-own 8-ball. I think if someone tries to pull something with the rack, it's going to be pretty obvious, like a rack tilt. You can always request a new rack in either format. However, there are way less re-rack requests needed in rack-your-own.

If anyone can name one sport that has an analogue to rack-for-each-other, please let me know. The closest I have come up with is baseball, but baseball has a punishment for giving a "bad rack". Imagine baseball where you could throw as many balls as you wanted but the batter would never get to walk to 1st base. Would we ever see a single pitch into the strike zone? :confused:

In my opinion, rack-for-each-other may be the most absurd "bar rule" of them all. I can't believe we still use it in any kind of a serious game of pool. :rolleyes:

/rant :D
 
Cuebacca said:
There are way less arguments in rack-your-own. Also, don't forget that sometimes people don't argue, but they just accept a faulty rack to avoid the hassle of trying to get someone to go against their natural tendency to give you a bad rack. So I should say, there are less arguments AND less hard feelings in rack-your-own.

Particularly for 8-ball where the 8 on the break is not a win, rack-for-each-other makes little sense. Rack-your-own makes all kinds of sense. If you want something done right, you've got to do it yourself.

I don't know what people are worried about with rack-your-own 8-ball. I think if someone tries to pull something with the rack, it's going to be pretty obvious, like a rack tilt. You can always request a new rack in either format. However, there are way less re-rack requests needed in rack-your-own.

If anyone can name one sport that has an analogue to rack-for-each-other, please let me know. The closest I have come up with is baseball, but baseball has a punishment for giving a "bad rack". Imagine baseball where you could throw as many balls as you wanted but the batter would never get to walk to 1st base. Would we ever see a single pitch into the strike zone? :confused:

In my opinion, rack-for-each-other may be the most absurd "bar rule" of them all. I can't believe we still use it in any kind of a serious game of pool. :rolleyes:

/rant :D
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We have not started yet, so I am anxious to see how it works next week. I will let everybody know. I can think of a few people that will probably try to rack to their own advantage and if there are any obvious "bad" racks, I will take pictures and send them to the league and post them here. I play in the top league, so there is no excuse for faulty-looking racks. In the lower leagues, nobody pays attention to the racks.
 
ragbug74 said:
A local league that I play in changed to rack-your-own this year as well. When we were playing the first night of leagues last week, our captain informed us of this change. He encouraged us all to at least look at your opponent's rack before he cracks it just to make sure it's square, etc. I'm going to review my copy of Charlie Bond's "The Great Break Shot" for tips on things to look for.
Click to expand...

I am not familiar with Charlie Bond's "The Great Break Shot" . Can anyone tell me about it? I am going to buy Joe T's dvd soon.
 
Razorback Randy said:
I am not familiar with Charlie Bond's "The Great Break Shot" . Can anyone tell me about it? I am going to buy Joe T's dvd soon.
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As I understand it, this book was the precursor to "racking secrets". I have the book somewhere, but haven't read it for a while. It is a well-regarded book. I think it is on bebob's website, among others.
 
You can find info about The Great Break Shot, as well as order it directly from Charlie Bond at: http://www.breakrak.com/Accessories.html

The Great Break shot was released a few years ago and contains a "revised reprint" of Tucker's Racking Secrets.

Great book full of useful information. Check it out.
 
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