8 ball improved handicap suggestions

frankncali said:
My thought was to handicap the stranger high but not to the hilt...
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And, who determines this and how????????

And, after the tournament, when he's defeated two or three opponents, or won the thing, because he was too low, how do you explain it to your locals?
 
Teacherman said:
And, who determines this and how????????

And, after the tournament, when he's defeated two or three opponents, or won the thing, because he was too low, how do you explain it to your locals?
Click to expand...


Its a tough situation so your way is probably the easiest but if I were
a new player to your room I would be dissapointed to throw away some money while I was getting rated.
I do believe that if a TD watches the matches and knows pool then he can determine whether or not the new play played above his ranking or the local
simply dogged it.
I do see your point of view.
I also like local weeklys that are cheap. Maybe less money involved but it will
keep the road guys and hustlers away most of the time. Weeklys are for fun not $$$.
 
I used to play in Gene Miller's tournament in SF and he had a first round buy-back. He could rate someone pretty high and then re-rate them if needed in the next round. It's not perfect but it does help a little. I loved that first round buy back idea.
 
Teacherman said:
And, who determines this and how????????
Click to expand...

You have no idea how to do this, that's the point....
That's the topic of the thread, which you consistently avoid.
This thread would be much better off without your dead end, old news posts.
 
frankncali said:
Its a tough situation so your way is probably the easiest but if I were
a new player to your room I would be dissapointed to throw away some money while I was getting rated.
I do believe that if a TD watches the matches and knows pool then he can determine whether or not the new play played above his ranking or the local
simply dogged it.
I do see your point of view.
I also like local weeklys that are cheap. Maybe less money involved but it will
keep the road guys and hustlers away most of the time. Weeklys are for fun not $$$.
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Sure... the point is you don't want an outsider to be underrated. That's so obvious that everyone would agree on that. No new information there, T-boy.

That's why TeacherBoy just settles on worst case scenario. Put them at the highest rating - basically everyone in their right mind would avoid that TBoy system, except for the players so strong that they intended to rob his regulars of the money anyway. T-boy has demonstrated no criteria for what it takes to distinguish one level of player from another. It's all subjective judging - like figure skating. So T-Boy's approach solves nothing. Currently there's not really much other choice. The topic of the thread was to develop ideas on how to provide some potential solutions.

If not suggesting solutions, then the comments are off-topic.
 
There is no solution duck head.

Player walks in off the street. No one knows him. Sorry, can only play at our top handicap.

The last thing I'll ask him is "do you have an APA handicap?"

And apparently your solution is to believe the player.

Good luck.

Like I said.....you've never owned a business. Probably a democrat.
 
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Just maybe..........if you'd ever been in the arena............you get the respect you're looking for.

Until then you're going backwards. And posters are PMing me about how ridiculous you are. Actually laughing at you, Flicka?

Hey, if you want plumbing advice, don't go to your doctor.

If you want advice on handicapping, don't go to someone who has never done it.
 
Teacherman said:
There is no solution duck head.

Player walks in off the street. No one knows him. Sorry, can only play at our top handicap.

The last thing I'll ask him is "do you have an APA handicap?"

And apparently your solution is to believe the player.

Good luck.

Like I said.....you've never owned a business. Probably a democrat.
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So many more wrong assumptions.... as is typical of you....

Too much material to work with....

Maybe one day you'll actually catch a clue....

Since you're on your bash kick again....

Move it to the "Flame Thread"....
 
FLICKit said:
Good post.

Of course some people will try to degenerate this thread, as is there typical Modus Operandi, so we will just have to ignore them.
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This was like the second post in this thread.... Predicts you to a T... T-Boy.

So... So... Predictable...

And you're So So.. clueless.....
 
FLICKit said:
Such a f**king idiot. Nobody was even talkin about that sh*t. But of course, you're a f**king broken record as has already been proven. So f**king clueless as usual. Your riff raff post is exactly what we've been referring to in its total stupidity. You can see nothin cuz you have stupidity blinders on, as usual.



With your pure stupidity you once again try to put words into other people's mouth, wrongly. WRONG WRONG WRONG... once again. Typical for you. As your negative reputation has already shown itself.


We've already pointed out the flaws and the stupity of your so-called handicapping system. Gave you a series of questions which you still haven't addressed, cuz it demonstrated all the stupid assumptions in your stupid system that amounts to jack sh*t. As was said, you avoided those questions, cuz you know the obvious flaws that were exposed.


Yet, you bash every handicap system out there, unless of course it's your stupid version, despite its obvious flaws. Stupid comments that are consistent with lil Burnout Boy.


First of all, you ignore the fact that the so-called Allstars, are the some of the prime examples of the ones that you have already underrated. Clear flaw in your system. And you're going to have ones who are the worst of the next highest level, many of whom will not be as good as your so-called Allstars from the other level.

Did you even note, that was what was posted in the last message, that everyone would play straight up? NO, obviously you didn't.... Obvious verification of your stupidity. Geez, catch a clue one day at least.


Of course with your beginner and intermediate system, you fail to recognize that by dividing and classifying your way, you have a handicapping system (but you bash any handicapping system - so you're bi-polar once again). Players will easily sandbag so that they are underrated in your system. What standards (which is the key to this thread) do you even use that guide your classification system? By mentioning none, that has relegated your post to USELESS. What happens if you actually grow past your small scale system, would you further subdivide i.e. split your beginners, and split your intermediate?



You're talkin old news, that doesn't even correlate one iota to this thread. If you can't make any positive contributions, then simply get the f**k out.

Don't even bother to respond, lil Burnout Boy, cuz your message will simply be ignored.

Go back to your cryogenically frozen stupid handicapping system that you ridiculously try to push. Now, after we ignore Teacherman's stupidity - broken record that will always lead to the same sick conclusion. Your burnout posts are not welcomed here. Unless we all ignore Teacherman's inane posts, then it'll always lead to the same old conversation. Maybe we can get back to a legitimate conversation of the topic at hand.
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No need to even respond to you T-boy.. Always same conclusions... Just need to cut and paste....
 
FLICKit said:
OK... and what standards do you have to determine whether a player should be in the Open, Level I, or Masters.

Say for example FrankNCali visits your area and wants to play in a tournament, which group would you put him in and why?
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First, he'd have to be searched, have his civil rights violated, show appropriate ID, have his cue subjected to massive abuse, possible theft, and have it kept out of his sight for several hours, risk blood clots while being forced to sit for hours at a time, pay money with no return guarantee, and be placed in a dangerours area with no hope of defending himself, save a rolled-up magazine...oh wait!...this is at the airport, not the tournament...sorry.

First, he'd have to play in x number of nights of league before he would be allowed to play in the state tourney.

Then, his team would be ranked depending on the number of master players on it. I think it is two or more master individuals equals a master team. (not sure exactly how they do this)

He personally would start in the Open singles. If he made it to the top 12, I think, he would next time be required to play in Level I. If he got in the top four, I think, he'd have to play in the master's division next time. The league keeps a list of these players and publishes it with the sign-up forms for state. I believe a player stays at the higher level for five years (assuming he doesn't place high enough to stay there)

I've heard that one of the two, BCA or VNEA, has created another category just below the Masters level, but I'm not sure about this yet. This might just be for the nationals? I'm not really familiar with these parts of it.

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
First, he'd have to be searched, have his civil rights violated, show appropriate ID, have his cue subjected to massive abuse, possible theft, and have it kept out of his sight for several hours, risk blood clots while being forced to sit for hours at a time, pay money with no return guarantee, and be placed in a dangerours area with no hope of defending himself, save a rolled-up magazine...oh wait!...this is at the airport, not the tournament...sorry.

First, he'd have to play in x number of nights of league before he would be allowed to play in the state tourney.

Then, his team would be ranked depending on the number of master players on it. I think it is two or more master individuals equals a master team. (not sure exactly how they do this)

He personally would start in the Open singles. If he made it to the top 12, I think, he would next time be required to play in Level I. If he got in the top four, I think, he'd have to play in the master's division next time. The league keeps a list of these players and publishes it with the sign-up forms for state. I believe a player stays at the higher level for five years (assuming he doesn't place high enough to stay there)

I've heard that one of the two, BCA or VNEA, has created another category just below the Masters level, but I'm not sure about this yet. This might just be for the nationals? I'm not really familiar with these parts of it.

Jeff Livingston
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Good Post... Nice to see what happens, when we get rid of the riff raff whose posts are a waste of time in this thread.

You've displayed a standard for progressing through the various levels (Open - top 12, Level I - top 4, and Masters) in the singles format. Of course there are obvious weaknesses, but no system is perfect.

For example, one tournament does not always reflect on a player's ability. An average player can get many lucky breaks in one tournament (i.e. 8 on break, or opponent scratch on 8, or early 8, or simply lucky shots with lucky leaves), and therefore advance to the next level without having the true skill to be there. Other examples, you could play one day against a weaker field than normal (i.e. holiday or better tournament elsewhere or strong players get knocked out), whereby you qualify to the next level.

Another weakness, is for a strong player to get to Level I, and make it to the money (top 8) and then purposefully lose so that they're not in top 4 - thus ensuring they won't advance, because they can make more money doing that, than they could at next level.

Next flaw, there'd still be a very wide range between the top players in the Masters division and the lower players there. They might compete in a couple of tournaments at that level, because they're happy to have gotten there, but many will simply stop showing or go somewhere else, because they know they'd be feeding their money to the top money players. Thus, if they go elsewhere they could get more reward for their efforts.

This could be improved if the bars in the area would all use the same standard. Is that what you say happens in your area? Then a new Master player, would be that level in the other bars as well. They might have a few options of which Masters bar league to play in, so they have a chance for gaining reward while they develop their game to match up against those top level master players for the State tournament.
 
FLICKit said:
Good Post... Nice to see what happens, when we get rid of the riff raff whose posts are a waste of time in this thread.

You've displayed a standard for progressing through the various levels (Open - top 12, Level I - top 4, and Masters) in the singles format. Of course there are obvious weaknesses, but no system is perfect.

For example, one tournament does not always reflect on a player's ability. An average player can get many lucky breaks in one tournament (i.e. 8 on break, or opponent scratch on 8, or early 8, or simply lucky shots with lucky leaves), and therefore advance to the next level without having the true skill to be there. Other examples, you could play one day against a weaker field than normal (i.e. holiday or better tournament elsewhere or strong players get knocked out), whereby you qualify to the next level.

Another weakness, is for a strong player to get to Level I, and make it to the money (top 8) and then purposefully lose so that they're not in top 4 - thus ensuring they won't advance, because they can make more money doing that, than they could at next level.

Next flaw, there'd still be a very wide range between the top players in the Masters division and the lower players there. They might compete in a couple of tournaments at that level, because they're happy to have gotten there, but many will simply stop showing or go somewhere else, because they know they'd be feeding their money to the top money players. Thus, if they go elsewhere they could get more reward for their efforts.

This could be improved if the bars in the area would all use the same standard. Is that what you say happens in your area? Then a new Master player, would be that level in the other bars as well. They might have a few options of which Masters bar league to play in, so they have a chance for gaining reward while they develop their game to match up against those top level master players for the State tournament.
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What you say is true...except maybe the money incentives....there's so little difference between payoffs, and the odds are so low of winning, it probably doesn't make any difference one way or the other.

The last paragraph is moot as there aren't enough Master players in this whole frickin' town to make up one league. The best players come from the quad cities (Jessie Bowman, et al)...which makes me mad as Des Moines has more people but worse pool. Overall, we get killed in State, and this is one reason I'm interested in this thread. I'm trying to get our local leagues to use incentives, such as handicap changes, to provide incentives for us Des Moinesians to improve, overall.

Jeff Livingston
 
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