8-ball "obvious" call shot ?

[grindz]

And in response to all this..........

is the argument for playing...anything goes (slop). :smile:

td

 

[Bob Jewett]

In the case of the obvious ball going into the pocket in a strange manner, the ball was obvious and the only pocket that didn't involve a bank was obvious, so to me the call is obvious. If I'm called over in that situation by the opponent, the opponent gets an unsportsmanlike conduct warning.

...
what kind of justice and logic is that? the guy who disrespects the authority and does not call the shots is rewarded and his is opponent is punished for asking for clarity? ...

Maybe we are talking about different shots. As shown in the quote above, I'm talking about a shot in which the player doesn't call a shot and the obvious ball goes into the obvious pocket but it goes in off a ball close to the pocket (or in some other strange way). The opponent jumps up and says, "I think that doesn't count because you didn't call the carom." As a TD, what would you do? Suppose you had been sitting there and saw the whole thing?

 

[vagabond]

Maybe we are talking about different shots. As shown in the quote above, I'm talking about a shot in which the player doesn't call a shot and the obvious ball goes into the obvious pocket but it goes in off a ball close to the pocket (or in some other strange way). The opponent jumps up and says, "I think that doesn't count because you didn't call the carom." As a TD, what would you do? Suppose you had been sitting there and saw the whole thing?

you are right . I did not realize that your call on that player was related to a specific shot .I was talking about that rule in general terms.I am sorry.:sorry:

 

[memikey]

I'm going to hazard a guess that my ancestors weren't smoking anything in the USA. I'm also going to hazard a guess that you weren't studying caroms with your ancestors. I'll also guess that your ancestors didn't call these shots "caroms."

You're right Fred but perhaps not exactly in the way you may think. I don't think I explained what I meant very well. My background is originally Uk and you're right we in Uk would never in the past nor now call a shot where the cue ball hits one obect ball and then another a "carom", we would infact normally call it a "cannon".

For example as far as those in Uk and elsewhere of the world who play the type of "billiards" which is played on a 12 ft snooker table with two whites and a red are concerned the definition of a cannon is virtually the same as their definition of a carom in that it always involves the cue ball striking one ball then another. To them a "kiss" is something quite different and simply involves any ball coming into contact with any other ball. Uk pool players also think of a carom and a kiss as two quite different things.

In other words we might say that to us from a UK snooker or uk pool original background all caroms are kisses but not all kisses are caroms. Indeed if you care to search for definitions of what a carom is you will find that there are far more definitions offered in which a carom is said to occur when the cue ball (specifically the cue ball) strikes one or more balls after the initial ball is struck as opposed to simply meaning any collision between any two or more balls. The merging of those two things is something which has developed over time in the "pool table" world and probably started in USA.

I put it to you that the interchangeable use of carom for kiss and vice versa is actually a far more modern interpretation than the other definition of carom.

I guess this is where I'm confused. Somebody has apparently changed the definition or at the very least forgot to put the full definition in the BCA League booklet.

I don't understand why the BCA League definitions would include a definition for "Carom Shot" that isn't the full definition from the BCA Rulebook. The BCA Rulebook includes the definition for Carom. And the defnition for Kiss under the BCA Rulebook says "Also called a carom shot."

Since the BCA League was spawned from the BCA, I can't imagine that they would be so picky to redefine what a Carom Shot is

I agree that seems strange. I've certainly no idea who would choose to do that or why. I'm not even sure why they need to be defined at all.

IMO, it's simply an oversight by. Do you disagree with this??? They are the same. They've always been the same. That is, 5 years ago when the BCA League was still part of the BCA, Carom and Kiss were the same. Pray tell why would someone purposefully redefine them after the BCA Leagues were purchased by Mark Griffin?

Certainly seems more likely to be an unintentional rather than a deliberate separating of the two things, given what you describe was in the earlier BCA rule book, but I wouldn't agree that a carom and kiss have always been the same in the wider cue sports sense (ie outside BCA) and I suppose it's remotely possible that whoever wrote these defintions might know and prefer the more traditional cue sports definition of carom/kiss which I've described to you. I would of course certainly totally accept your advices that the two things were previously the same in old BCA definitions.

Thanks Fred, a nice sensible discussion.


[/QUOTE]

 

[softshot]

all caroms are kisses but not all kisses are caroms.

popular definitions ...to many terms for to few effects

Kiss, Carom, Billiard, Combo, in most rooms I know it has been shortened to " off the"

..as in 9 in the corner off the 6

to some folks that means the cueball hits the 9 the 9 hits the 6 and the 9 goes in the pocket..

to others that means the cueball hits the 6 then the cueball hits the 9 and the 9 goes in the pocket

to others that means the cueball hits the 6 the 6 hits the 9 and the 9 goes in the pocket..

5 terms 3 definitions..

and you are saying anytime one ball hits another its a "kiss off the"... which to me makes it a useless term that means nothing...

or could mean everything depending on how big and how pissed the opponent is

I think the definitions depend on where you are and who you are playing...

thats probably why its call ball and pocket.. to avoid fights..

but sometimes you want to make it clear that your impossible shot was in fact intended.. and you will call more than you need to.. mainly a function of showing off..