8 ball or 9 ball which is harder to break and run
- Thread starter mnShooter
- Start date
This question can only really be answered once some B&R stats are compiled from a major nine ball tourney.
My guess at the moment is that the B&R %'s will be slightly lower in nine ball (nine ball having slightly tougher spreads) while the strategic element of 8 ball makes it much more a thinking man's game.
In the long run, imo, the better shotmaker wins nineball matches but the better pool player wins 8 ball.
My guess at the moment is that the B&R %'s will be slightly lower in nine ball (nine ball having slightly tougher spreads) while the strategic element of 8 ball makes it much more a thinking man's game.
In the long run, imo, the better shotmaker wins nineball matches but the better pool player wins 8 ball.
mnShooter said:
I think your above statement speaks for itself, you've already answered your question.
Island Drive said:
Actually the person who's already answered this question for anyone who cares to read it is Pool instructional author Phil Cappelle. His article here is quite explicit; Pros playing on 9' tables run out 8 Ball racks far more often (44.1% on average) than 9 Ball (28.2%).
http://www.billiardspress.com/perspective.html
Note these stats were compiled prior to the IPT's inception, with a smaller sampling of Pros playing 8 Ball on 9' tables available and with smaller prize purses. It would be very interesting to get updated B&R statistics averaged across all the IPT players across the entire 2006 season to see if this is above or below this 44.1% figure with a larger sampling of players with a large prize purse at stake.
AuntyDan said:
I imagine it would be well below 44.1%. Simply because of the equipment being used on the IPT, the slow cloth and tight pockets seem to make it fairly tough for players to break and run on a frequent basis. Going through the IPT stats the only players you see break and run alot are Archer, Manalo, and players up around their level.
sniper said:
Interesting observation. As the IPT field is so large (compared to most Pro events) there is a relatively wide range of skill here. Ideally stats can be generated both for the overall total B&R average, and then broken down into ranges based on reaults, like Match Win percentage, money won etc.
In eight ball you are breaking 15 balls,compared to only nine in nine ball,so your chances of making a ball off the break are from the get go much higher than in 9 ball.
Also in nine ball you can make a ball on the break and be hooked on the the next ball in numerical rotation.In eight ball if you make a ball off the break there is almost allways something to shoot at.
Clusters (although more in 8 ball) are also easier to negioiate in 8 ball, because you have the option of shooting so many balls to get to the cluster to break it.In nine ball you have only one ball to shoot at and must negioaite things precisley as to disturb the cluster.
At the pro level, 8 ball is much easier to run out.
RJ
Also in nine ball you can make a ball on the break and be hooked on the the next ball in numerical rotation.In eight ball if you make a ball off the break there is almost allways something to shoot at.
Clusters (although more in 8 ball) are also easier to negioiate in 8 ball, because you have the option of shooting so many balls to get to the cluster to break it.In nine ball you have only one ball to shoot at and must negioaite things precisley as to disturb the cluster.
At the pro level, 8 ball is much easier to run out.
RJ
Anybody who has played both games can tell you, without a doubt, 8 ball is a much easier game to get out. Even though there has been many threads over the years that question it, I'll say "no question about it".
The reason 8 ball is easier is shot making. lots of people try to emphasize other aspecs of the game, like clusters or having to read the table instead of the table telling you what to do, but in reality - Shot making is the number one problem for 99.9999999999% of all pool players.
Nine ball is full of hard shots in an average runout attempt. Eight ball may just have one hard shot in every run out. Yoy can also afford to screw up several times on position in 8 ball. Try getting out of line in 9 /yikes
The reason 8 ball is easier is shot making. lots of people try to emphasize other aspecs of the game, like clusters or having to read the table instead of the table telling you what to do, but in reality - Shot making is the number one problem for 99.9999999999% of all pool players.
Nine ball is full of hard shots in an average runout attempt. Eight ball may just have one hard shot in every run out. Yoy can also afford to screw up several times on position in 8 ball. Try getting out of line in 9 /yikes
mnShooter said:
Mn,
I think you will see that the gist of the arguments so far is in which is more statistically likely. Your question however is which is "harder" (more difficult). Because of the nature of the game, the 8-ball runouts will be "easier" to perform (less heroic and difficult shots because of the relatively free choice of object ball). The reason that the 8-ball runouts may be similar in percentage to 9-ball runouts is that there are numerous obstructing balls that may make runouts improbable, and because you may not have a good shot at the correct group at the start of the game because of the random results of the break.
The nature of the cloth makes a HUGE difference in B & R percentage. At the IPT, the cloth has allowed about a 50% avg. in making a ball on the break - limiting B & R opportunities. On fast Simonis cloth, the guys with the big breaks would be making a ball on the break about 80-90% of the time with WAY more opportunities for B & R's.
Make no mistake, the B&R percentages have more to do with how hard the tables are to break on than with the "difficulty" of the game. The runouts that the pro's make in a game of 8 ball are usually easier than the typical 9-ball runout (with exceptions both ways).
I know of 2 IPT pro's who, when playing on fast Simonis (where making a ball on the break is a very high percentage for them), would basically bet their whole bundle on a game where you spot them the break; and if they don't break and run you automatically win the game - you don't even need to shoot. They will win WAY more than 50%. In the IPT, any single game is a crapshoot with much riding on the results of the opening break.
Williebetmore said:
That would be a tough bet to pass up, that means the shooter has to run out more than 50% time to get there, hummmmmmm. You could probably get Jay Helfert interested in this proposition.
Island Drive said:
Drive-man,
Doubtful anyone would be interested; the top guys on that type of equipment are breaking and running substantially more than 50%. But of course, difference of opinion is why they have horse races.
smashmouth said:
As an average the highest break-and-run %'s for 9-ball were by Archer and Strickland (compiled by Accu-Stats over a number of tourneys in the 90's I think) and were around 30%-32%. The best break-and-run stats for 8-ball I expect will be higher.
I disagree that in the long run the better shotmaker will win at 9-ball--I think the better shotmaker might win at 9-ball in the short run, but that in the long run the better pool player will win, at both 8-ball and 9-ball.