8 ball safety play

N

nine o nine

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
While in a league match of 8 ball last nite (modified BCA rules), a 3d. time safety was called to the same rail. Discussion ensued to determine if it was legal or a foul and if a foul what would the penalty be. If I remember correctly it IS a foul in 14.1 with a ball in hand in the kitchen. I looked in the various rules sets and couldn't find an 8ball answer.Thoughts????? Mitch
BTW the third foul didn't occur
 
nine o nine said:
While in a league match of 8 ball last nite (modified BCA rules), a 3d. time safety was called to the same rail. Discussion ensued to determine if it was legal or a foul and if a foul what would the penalty be. If I remember correctly it IS a foul in 14.1 with a ball in hand in the kitchen. I looked in the various rules sets and couldn't find an 8ball answer.Thoughts????? Mitch
BTW the third foul didn't occur
Click to expand...

Mitch,

wut?

Pocket
 
For a legit safety either the cueball or object ball must strike a rail. Repeating the same ball safety to the same rail three times is what's in question. Mich
 
nine o nine said:
For a legit safety either the cueball or object ball must strike a rail. Repeating the same ball safety to the same rail three times is what's in question. Mich
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Mich,

If I understand correctly, the only rule that would apply here (as long as the shots are all legal) is (per BCA rules):

2-11 Stalemate
If a referee judges that the table is in a position such that any attempt to pocket or move a ball will result in loss of game on that shot, or that the game is not progressing because the position of the table has not significantly changed through three consecutive innings by each player, the referee will declare a stalemate and the game will be replayed with the player who broke the game breaking again
Click to expand...
 
Think OP is talking about a 3 foul rule, which i've never heard in 8 ball. A stalemate can be declared though.
 
Nope ....not talking about a three FOUL rule as in nine-ball. Per BCA 2-11 a referee can call a stalemate. Leagues don't have referees........
In the situation I'm talking about one player attempted three similar safeties while the opponent had other balls attempting to shoot hence no stalemate.
The players finished the game regardless. I'm just wanting to know should there even have been a discussion at the table? Mitch
 
Third time's the harm...

nine o nine said:
While in a league match of 8 ball last nite (modified BCA rules), a 3d. time safety was called to the same rail. Discussion ensued to determine if it was legal or a foul and if a foul what would the penalty be. If I remember correctly it IS a foul in 14.1 with a ball in hand in the kitchen. I looked in the various rules sets and couldn't find an 8ball answer.Thoughts????? Mitch
BTW the third foul didn't occur
Click to expand...

I don't believe I have ever heard of a foul for shooting 3 consecutive safeties at the same ball and rail in any game. But then I ain't no genius either, especially at 8-ball. And some leagues do have some strange rules.

However, given the context of your question, I would say there was no need for a discussion, unless it was a beer break.
 
You can play the same safety as many times as you want even if there's other balls to shoot. This rule may come into play, but I think this is intended to be for when there is an actual stalemate and no other balls to shoot at, etc...

"It is not necessary for the referee to observe the three attempts by each player prior to the balls arriving at their position. If the players agree that the table is in a stalemate position, they may mutually declare a stalemate before each player has completed three innings and without informing a referee."

If it came up I think I'd just ask my opponent what they want to do, if both agree to re-rack and re-break then same player breaks and you start over.
 
nine o nine said:
Nope ....not talking about a three FOUL rule as in nine-ball. Per BCA 2-11 a referee can call a stalemate. Leagues don't have referees........
In the situation I'm talking about one player attempted three similar safeties while the opponent had other balls attempting to shoot hence no stalemate.
The players finished the game regardless. I'm just wanting to know should there even have been a discussion at the table? Mitch
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It's been answered sir. Either agree to a stalemate or play on. Unless your "modified bca rules" include absurd bar house rules.
 
They did play on Pocket. I was only wondering if that "safety play" was unusual to the fact that one of the players questioned it. Thanks for your responses. Mitch
 
nine o nine said:
Nope ....not talking about a three FOUL rule as in nine-ball. Per BCA 2-11 a referee can call a stalemate. Leagues don't have referees........
In the situation I'm talking about one player attempted three similar safeties while the opponent had other balls attempting to shoot hence no stalemate.
The players finished the game regardless. I'm just wanting to know should there even have been a discussion at the table? Mitch
Click to expand...

If there is no referee, both players should discuss it and agree to a re-rack with the original person breaking to break again. I've done this and have intervened with my players and the other team to re-rack. It's better for everyone. As long as it's agreed by both sides. There is no 3 foul rule in any 8 ball rules so this is the only answer.
 
nine o nine said:
Nope ....not talking about a three FOUL rule as in nine-ball. Per BCA 2-11 a referee can call a stalemate. Leagues don't have referees........
In the situation I'm talking about one player attempted three similar safeties while the opponent had other balls attempting to shoot hence no stalemate.
The players finished the game regardless. I'm just wanting to know should there even have been a discussion at the table? Mitch
Click to expand...

There are no rules in any 8 ball league that states how many times anyone can shoot any shot whether it be a safety or any other shot.
 
Wow. Are you trying to make league 8ball more boring than it is already? Discussing 3 fouls on the same rail? Really? I now remember why i quit league pool. I'd rather have a root-canal with a butter knife.
 
Slightly on-topic....

In straight pool there used to be a rule about both players playing soft little safes against a ball that is close to the cushion. The rule was that after two such safes by each player, the ball was considered frozen to the cushion. That rule is now gone from straight pool and is replaced by the stalemate rule. I don't think the "nurse safety" rule was part of the eight ball rules.

There were and are sets of eight ball rules that include the "three fouls is loss of game" rule. That's a bad rule for eight ball especially if you also have "ball in hand anywhere" for fouls.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Slightly on-topic....
...snip snip snip...
There were and are sets of eight ball rules that include the "three fouls is loss of game" rule. That's a bad rule for eight ball especially if you also have "ball in hand anywhere" for fouls.
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There were and are sets of eight ball rules that include calling kisses and touches of the rail too Bob :eek:
 
garczar said:
Wow. Are you trying to make league 8ball more boring than it is already? Discussing 3 fouls on the same rail? Really? I now remember why i quit league pool. I'd rather have a root-canal with a butter knife.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you aren't missed.
 
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