How does everyone look at an 8-ball table? What I mean by this is do you start at the 8-ball and work backwards like me and I try to identify the key ball or balls in the rack that make it difficult. Also I try to get clusters out of the way early if possible due to they mostly cause problems with only going in one or two pockets...what does everyone else do?
8-ball strategy
- Thread starter wbweld0
- Start date
Yeah, I look at it backwards when I play 8 ball. Seems to help find a pocket for that 8 ball without disturbing any other balls if possible.
I dont shoot much 8 ball at all really but I read about this strategy in the latest billiards digest issue with Mike Sigel on the cover. I broke and ran the first rack I did this with, but I also had no clusters and was able to take the exact path I plotted before shooting.
I dont shoot much 8 ball at all really but I read about this strategy in the latest billiards digest issue with Mike Sigel on the cover. I broke and ran the first rack I did this with, but I also had no clusters and was able to take the exact path I plotted before shooting.
Reading the map.
I read the map from my breakout of clusters. Normally you will have at least 1 set of balls to breakout. I find the shortest distance for my breakout and try to do it very early or plan on a nasty little safe during the breakout. The table as you know is always different and your planning of a runout is always differnt also. There are times I work my way back from the 8 but I have no general rule in doing so. Its all about the layout. I think using different methods for different layouts are key. I would not get stuck using the same method on every layout. You have to feel the table and know what your limits are. Breakout early and play smart safes.
I read the map from my breakout of clusters. Normally you will have at least 1 set of balls to breakout. I find the shortest distance for my breakout and try to do it very early or plan on a nasty little safe during the breakout. The table as you know is always different and your planning of a runout is always differnt also. There are times I work my way back from the 8 but I have no general rule in doing so. Its all about the layout. I think using different methods for different layouts are key. I would not get stuck using the same method on every layout. You have to feel the table and know what your limits are. Breakout early and play smart safes.
I've been putting more time lately into indentifying the key ball, the one just before the 8.
I've been watching good 9-ballers play league 8-ball. They're good, young guns and can pot balls like magic. But, I've noticed that they aren't very good at choosing a good key ball. Most seem to pften use the object ball closest to the 8-ball. From experience, I rarely do this as getting perfect shape on that key ball is necessary when the 8 is so close.
So, lately I've been intentionally using a ball downtable for my key ball just to experiment with how that works. One of the best routes to the 8, imho, is two or three rails, coming into the position zone from the wide end with plenty of room for distance mistakes. It is amazing how often the best key ball is way away from the 8.
Try it for a while and see what I mean.
Jeff Livingston
I've been watching good 9-ballers play league 8-ball. They're good, young guns and can pot balls like magic. But, I've noticed that they aren't very good at choosing a good key ball. Most seem to pften use the object ball closest to the 8-ball. From experience, I rarely do this as getting perfect shape on that key ball is necessary when the 8 is so close.
So, lately I've been intentionally using a ball downtable for my key ball just to experiment with how that works. One of the best routes to the 8, imho, is two or three rails, coming into the position zone from the wide end with plenty of room for distance mistakes. It is amazing how often the best key ball is way away from the 8.
Try it for a while and see what I mean.
Jeff Livingston
Goog advice ..
Tim made some good points. I always after the break, if I am breaking,
instantly evaluate the table. I look for the 8 and any balls close to it or
hindering it from going into a pocket. If I see a problem, I decide then
how I am going to eliminate the problem with the 8. Then I look at the
general layout again, which balls are best for a run, any problems with
being able to run them. If there are problems with some of the balls,
I decide on solutions to them. If there are no problems, I proceed to
run the table. I also take note of any 'cautions' from the layout, like
where I might need a 'finesse' shape shot to get on a ball, or to nudge
a ball out of the way for shape.
If, for some reason, I can not run out, I make a mental note at what point I will have to play a safety, and also note how his balls are laying,
if there are problems for him running the table, and whether he can safety
me back after I safety where it will give me a bigger problem.
Then I usually decide on the 1st 3 balls of the run and sequence. Then I
evaluate the rest of the run individually by each ball, getting shpae, what angle I need, the ball after that one, so that 4-5-6-7 (if they exist after
the break) are looked it ball by ball. Unlike other players, I do not worry
about having my last ball being close to the 8 for a connect the dot out,
if that ball close to the 8 will solve a 'run' or 'shape' problem in the earlier
part of the run.
Now, I know my initial evaluation sounded like a lot of work, but most is instant recognition for me, and only if there are problems, do I consciously think about what I need to do. Generally, it only takes me about 10 seconds at looking at the table, maybe a little longer if many problems, and then I am ready to go. Of course, I have been playing 44 years though.
I kind of have a reputation for my strong positional play, and usually have
no problem getting on the 8 no matter where the last ball of the half is located. I might also note that usually I am not a finesser when breaking
out balls, in other words cherry picking on breakouts. I usually do my breakouts fairly strong, unless something is obvious, and take the roll
that occurs.
I, also, when my opponent is shooting evaluate his run and if any balls will give him a problem, usually it will be a breakout shot or getting the wrong angle of one of his balls which will cause him more of a problem following up. Some players, I can recognize the ball that they will mess up on,
and I go ahead and evaluate how to get out after he messes up (from my chair of course).
It does annoy me though when a player takes 3 minutes evaluating his
run when there is nothing hard about the run to start with. It wears on
my patience, especially if there are only 3 balls left.
Tim-n-NM said:
Tim made some good points. I always after the break, if I am breaking,
instantly evaluate the table. I look for the 8 and any balls close to it or
hindering it from going into a pocket. If I see a problem, I decide then
how I am going to eliminate the problem with the 8. Then I look at the
general layout again, which balls are best for a run, any problems with
being able to run them. If there are problems with some of the balls,
I decide on solutions to them. If there are no problems, I proceed to
run the table. I also take note of any 'cautions' from the layout, like
where I might need a 'finesse' shape shot to get on a ball, or to nudge
a ball out of the way for shape.
If, for some reason, I can not run out, I make a mental note at what point I will have to play a safety, and also note how his balls are laying,
if there are problems for him running the table, and whether he can safety
me back after I safety where it will give me a bigger problem.
Then I usually decide on the 1st 3 balls of the run and sequence. Then I
evaluate the rest of the run individually by each ball, getting shpae, what angle I need, the ball after that one, so that 4-5-6-7 (if they exist after
the break) are looked it ball by ball. Unlike other players, I do not worry
about having my last ball being close to the 8 for a connect the dot out,
if that ball close to the 8 will solve a 'run' or 'shape' problem in the earlier
part of the run.
Now, I know my initial evaluation sounded like a lot of work, but most is instant recognition for me, and only if there are problems, do I consciously think about what I need to do. Generally, it only takes me about 10 seconds at looking at the table, maybe a little longer if many problems, and then I am ready to go. Of course, I have been playing 44 years though.
I kind of have a reputation for my strong positional play, and usually have
no problem getting on the 8 no matter where the last ball of the half is located. I might also note that usually I am not a finesser when breaking
out balls, in other words cherry picking on breakouts. I usually do my breakouts fairly strong, unless something is obvious, and take the roll
that occurs.
I, also, when my opponent is shooting evaluate his run and if any balls will give him a problem, usually it will be a breakout shot or getting the wrong angle of one of his balls which will cause him more of a problem following up. Some players, I can recognize the ball that they will mess up on,
and I go ahead and evaluate how to get out after he messes up (from my chair of course).
It does annoy me though when a player takes 3 minutes evaluating his
run when there is nothing hard about the run to start with. It wears on
my patience, especially if there are only 3 balls left.
Great points Scott, I'll just add that it's important to clear the natural pathways to the pockets early as well.
First thing I look for is which balls are very hard to make in a run (blocked balls / balls that require tight CB positioning to make).
Next will be what are my options for balls pottable at the first visit.
When that is solved / decided upon, look at options for an easy finish sequence.
But all should be looked at before a decision to go ahead is made. If the out percentage is low, it's better to re-evaluate the strategy to advance your own ball's position, without giving much of a chance to the opponent.
Next will be what are my options for balls pottable at the first visit.
When that is solved / decided upon, look at options for an easy finish sequence.
But all should be looked at before a decision to go ahead is made. If the out percentage is low, it's better to re-evaluate the strategy to advance your own ball's position, without giving much of a chance to the opponent.
1) I check the 8 first to see if it is in a cluster or if one set of balls is blocking any pockets near the 8. Is there a key ball that will leave you shape for the 8? If so make sure you identify it and try not to shoot at it until you are ready for the 8.
2) Then I look for problem balls (clusters, balls on rails, blocked pockets, etc.).
3) I evaluate if I have a run or not. If there is a run I choose what order I plan to pocket my balls. I try to stay at one end of the table and clear the balls on that side and then work on the other side.
4) If there is no run then I pick the ball that I will use for my Safe. Keeping in mind I want to ideally leave a few of my balls on the table in case my opponent plays a safe I should be able to play one of the remaining balls.
Like someone else said it only takes a few seconds to evaluate all these factors. After each shot re-evaluate your plan, sometimes you might have an easier way to run out than your original plan.
2) Then I look for problem balls (clusters, balls on rails, blocked pockets, etc.).
3) I evaluate if I have a run or not. If there is a run I choose what order I plan to pocket my balls. I try to stay at one end of the table and clear the balls on that side and then work on the other side.
4) If there is no run then I pick the ball that I will use for my Safe. Keeping in mind I want to ideally leave a few of my balls on the table in case my opponent plays a safe I should be able to play one of the remaining balls.
Like someone else said it only takes a few seconds to evaluate all these factors. After each shot re-evaluate your plan, sometimes you might have an easier way to run out than your original plan.
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in 8-ball one simply finds the out.....there is almost always one there if you are creative enough and have the shotmaking ability....watch Shane from SD play it on a bar box......playing caroms and tight windows is really the key...on a bar box.....either you find the OUT or find the lock up safe that will give you the out
First, I look at the eight ball and pick my last ball before the 8 ball before. This way, I try to know where I am eventually gonna end up, what shape I need to get on my last ball in order to have easy shape on my eight.
What no one seems to mention yet, is another strategy that I try is to move my opponents balls out of pockets, or together so when I miss, or play safe, my opponent has a tougher rack to run. This is done by either playing my solids, off of my opponents stripes to pocket balls, or caroming the cue ball to get position.
What no one seems to mention yet, is another strategy that I try is to move my opponents balls out of pockets, or together so when I miss, or play safe, my opponent has a tougher rack to run. This is done by either playing my solids, off of my opponents stripes to pocket balls, or caroming the cue ball to get position.
DougT
Illustrated Principles
I think the previous comments hit the most important points;wbweld0 said:
Where does the 8 go?
Where are the problems, offensively and for my opponent.
Run out, or where is the safety?
There's an interesting read in the most current (May) Billiard Digest by Mike Siegal. He gives his detailed thoughts during an 8-ball run out. Happily, he agreed with most all of my thinking....
Doug
And don't forget to evaluate your opponent. Sometimes, no matter how easy table, there are players not able to make full run. So when in trouble, let them shoot and clear couple of balls away and then continue with more open table.
pete-biker said:
I repectfully disagree with this method. Never let them shoot at open balls. Its always good to have a feel for your opponents speed but never let them have open shots. Good saftey play and knowing when to use it is key to being a good 8 baller.
Tim-n-NM said:
Ok, what you said is correct. What i said was not precice enough. What i was about to say was that you can let your opponent on the table instead of taking big risks if you know already that he/she is not able to run full anyways. Sometimes that can make a difference; you don't have to take stupid risks with your last ball when your opponent still is full...
I know from first hand experience 6 times this year.My first look at a table I look for problem spots (clusters, balls with no pockets etc.) for both myself and my opponent. When I've taken care of these areas I look for a key ball(s) and start by clearing off the rails down to any balls causing my opponent headaches (don't want to do any early favours) to my key ball and out.
I'm Not at a Break and Run Level....
Most of the people I encounter at the bar can't break and run.........neither can I........except one time but I jawed the 8....
On an open table I look for the makable balls, and then decide which has better lay. Chances are I'm not going to finish the rack one inning so I try to pocket what I can (not all of them) and solve a problem with a safety play. The table generally has a completely different lay when I get back so I just reevaluate the table, run if I can......If I can't run I'll chose shots that if I miss it will leave you hooked for your turn.....
That's about as deep as this Banger's game is right now....
McCue Banger McCue
Most of the people I encounter at the bar can't break and run.........neither can I........except one time but I jawed the 8....
On an open table I look for the makable balls, and then decide which has better lay. Chances are I'm not going to finish the rack one inning so I try to pocket what I can (not all of them) and solve a problem with a safety play. The table generally has a completely different lay when I get back so I just reevaluate the table, run if I can......If I can't run I'll chose shots that if I miss it will leave you hooked for your turn.....
That's about as deep as this Banger's game is right now....
McCue Banger McCue