8-ball tactic scenario

[Cornerman]

if you drop the 11, he can put the cb(BIH) anywhere he wants to get the angle he wants on the 13 and break up the 6/8.

We're starting to lose clarity.

The only reason to consider dropping the 11-ball is how the 13-ball lay. Since with ball in hand the opponent failed to break out the balls off the 13-ball, then the assumption is that the 13-ball couldn't lay all that great.

if you do as miiko shows. he drops the 11, but has to position right to get the angle he wants. you can only hope he gets bad position on the 11

He would be foolish to drop the 11-ball with ball in hand unless the 11-ball lay very nicely. Again, Mikko shows what his opponent did: gaffed the 13-ball breakout shot. Once the 13-ball was down, and the 6/8 were still tied up, Mikko's set became favored.

I think we've confused the scenarios.

Fred

 

[bruin70]

Here is the scenario,
The guy just laid the 11 ball over the pocket. Would you play this snooker attempt as diagrammed below?

you're solids? you HAVE to play the snooker. i mean, you have to hit the 6, don't you?

 

[Cornerman]

I assume this last two balls on the rail is a common end game. Would like to know from experienced players which ball they'd prefer to be on in theis duel. The 8 or 6 ball, starting BIH on the 8 ball.
.

The way the balls lay, if there were only the two left, I'd rather have the 6-ball...

That being said, I'd rather simply have ball-in-hand, either ball. I've been in situations where is I were, say, the 8-ball, I'd tickle, tickle,tickle until the balls were just at the right angle such that I could hit the 8-ball and not be in danger of pocketing the 6-ball.

If I were the solids with BIH, it's a typical croquet type of shot where you separate the cluster, but freeze the cueball on the 6-ball.

Fred

 

[bruin70]

I don't know if Mikko's first shot was a mistake. But pocketing the *13 ball* also seems strong. For two reasons:

1) The breakout is not easy using the 11. The diagrammed layout suggests the tangent line off the 11 points above the 8. In other words, he'd have to break the 8 out going *through* the 11 rather than glancing off it, which makes it harder to judge;

2) The 13 ball is optimumly placed for the carom I suggested earlier, so eliminating it would take out that agressive option;

The way I see it, Mikko's first intentional is a more conservative approach; while pocketing the 13 forces matters to a swifter conclusion; its a gamble. Either the breakout works for the other guy or it doesn't. At any rate solids figures to lose, *unless* the guy plays what he played in response to Mikko's first intentional foul.

breakout is extremely easy... START(
%FH7Z8%HJ1Z8%KF7V0%MC5C2%PI9N1%QY4B4%Rs3B6%US4X8%VK6Z7%WG7T3
%XI4N9%_I5Y7%`H6U1%aG3U2
)END

 

[Cornerman]

you're solids? you HAVE to play the snooker. i mean, you have to hit the 6, don't you?

There is no rule that says that you have to shoot the solids if you're solids. Of course, you'd give up BIH if you didn't. Mikko played the 11-ball, afterall, a move that eventually won the game for him. It's not a bad play at that point.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

breakout is extremely easy... START(
%FH7Z8%HJ1Z8%KF7V0%MC5C2%PI9N1%QY4B4%Rs3B6%WG7T3%XI4N9%_I5Y7
%`H6U1%aG3U2
)END

Try it tonight and report your results. IMO, it's a sucker shot.

Fred

 

[Colin Colenso]

Try it tonight and report your results. IMO, it's a sucker shot.

Fred

I think that angle approach can easily go astray. Could double kiss on the 8 or 6 balls, or if you hit the 6 low the CB will go to the low rail with a tough shot or hooked.

I'd prefer to hit it coming off the bottom rail, kicking the 8 toward to top corner A and the CB should usually escape to somewhere around position B for a shot. The 6 ball will usually bounce out tangentially leaving a clear shot at the 8.
START(
%FH7Z8%HJ1Z8%KF7V0%PK8Q0%Qm8W9%RL1S9%UG3Y8%VC4V0%WH1T7%XJ8Q5
%YI5Q2%ZH6Y7%[K5V0%\G7Z3%]l9X8%^J8Z7%eA6`6%_D2U7%`E7T7%aG3U2
)END
Colin >~Plays well on chalkboards!

 

[bruin70]

Try it tonight and report your results. IMO, it's a sucker shot.

Fred

i will...not tonight though

btw,,,i think mikko's opponent gaffed the breakout because he was trying to hit a PARTICULAR part of the 8,,,,missed, as it was very difficult. had his objective been to simply breakout the 6/8, as it would have been after pocketing the 11, then the 6/8 provides a very big target. i mean, this guy is a bronze medalist, after all.

 

[renard]

breakout is extremely easy... START(
%FH7Z8%HJ1Z8%KF7V0%MC5C2%PI9N1%QY4B4%Rs3B6%US4X8%VK6Z7%WG7T3
%XI4N9%_I5Y7%`H6U1%aG3U2
)END

It is easy if you hit both balls at the same time. But how many times have we hit a ball head on only for it to double hit? Speed is an issue as well, it must be hit hard enough for seperation. With all that said this is easier than all the rest with the exception of this starting from the beginning:

START(
%FH7Z8%HJ1Z8%KF7V0%MI1K0%PR2Z7%QY4B4%Rs3B6%UD1T7%VE8U6%WH2V9
%XQ5Z5%YD4W2%ZG1V5%[o2E6%\C1S9%]F3Y1%^C3W4%eB4`9
)END

Hit this shot just above middle ball firm. It might not bank it but it clears it as a break out ball.

 

[bruin70]

It is easy if you hit both balls at the same time. But how many times have we hit a ball head on only for it to double hit? Speed is an issue as well, it must be hit hard enough for seperation. With all that said this is easier than all the rest with the exception of this:

i'm going to try it a few different ways just to see the different reactions. but ultimately, if you're a bronzes medalist, this should never be a problem.

 

[renard]

i'm going to try it a few different ways just to see the different reactions. but ultimately, if you're a bronzes medalist, this should never be a problem.

Ain't that the truth!!!

 

[Jimmy M.]

His situation got worse, and mine went up on this bad shot. Now I thought I still have a chance to win this one.

START(
%FH7Z8%HJ1Z8%Kr2T4%MI1K0%PP9O8%Uk7M3%VL6[3%WD1Q0%XI4K9%YL2Z6
%ZC4Q6%]J3L5%^O9O5%eA8b2
)END

Had I been your opponent and had ball in hand I would have shot the following shot instead of the one diagrammed above. Even if I were to miss the break out, which isn't too tough with ball in hand, I could still duck off of the 13. If I hit it well, I'm expecting for the 6 to go in the hole and the cue ball to stop there for a shot on the 13. The 6 looks dead if you hit the 8, right?

START(
%FH7Z8%HJ1Z8%Kr2T4%MI1K0%Pk9O1%Uq8S9%Vk9N9%YL4[1%Zs0S3%]s6[5
%^r3T4%eB7`9
)END

 

[bruin70]

Had I been your opponent and had ball in hand I would have shot the following shot instead of the one diagrammed above. Even if I were to miss the break out, which isn't too tough with ball in hand, I could still duck off of the 13. If I hit it well, I'm expecting for the 6 to go in the hole and the cue ball to stop there for a shot on the 13. The 6 looks dead if you hit the 8, right?

START(
%FH7Z8%HJ1Z8%Kr2T4%MI1K0%Pk9O1%Uq8S9%Vk9N9%YL4[1%Zs0S3%]s6[5
%^r3T4%eB7`9
)END

it seems like mikko's opponent picked the worst possible option, and i don't think it's 20/20 hindsight. trying to nick that 8 was a difficult shot for anyone.

 

[lewdo26]

It is easy if you hit both balls at the same time. But how many times have we hit a ball head on only for it to double hit?

My point exactly. I'd never call any cluster frozen to the rail an extremely easy breakout. Much less if I have to go through the 11 rather than glance off the tangent line.

That being said, a bronze medalist might be able to make shots like these, I don't know... but solids is screwed anyways. Ya gotta hope for a mistake to occur on the part of Mikko's opponent. If he missed the 13 breakout, I might gamble that he could get stuck off the 11 as well.

Pocketing the 13 is just an aggressive option to Mikko's intentional foul, which I see no fault with btw.

 

[Guru]

I keep reading this thread and the debates, defending each approach/style-of-play. This would have been my shot, fwiw...

 

[mjantti]

Nice debate. And many good shots proposed. I admit my play was far from perfect, I just got lucky my opponent was in a hurry to win the game with stupid shots. I appreciate all the inputs from ppl. Very informative and shows the level of knowledge in this forum. Hardly any stupid shots was presented !

Maybe he felt the pressure, because I surely have his number (don't want to mention names, he's hardly known in the US anyway), I beat him a few years earlier in Eurotour as well, with almost perfect play. Maybe he was trying too hard to get his revenge

 

[bruin70]

I keep reading this thread and the debates, defending each approach/style-of-play. This would have been my shot, fwiw...

i like it. i think i'd place the cb next to the ob if i were going in that direction. this way, i don't have to do anything funny to the cb.

 

[bruin70]

the 6/8 are frozen to the rail, right? what's the rule about a good hit? do you only have to touch the 6, or do you have to send it or the cb to another rail?

 

[pooladdict]

Hi Jimmy. You must be a very good player. See my suggestion at page 1

Had I been your opponent and had ball in hand I would have shot the following shot instead of the one diagrammed above. Even if I were to miss the break out, which isn't too tough with ball in hand, I could still duck off of the 13. If I hit it well, I'm expecting for the 6 to go in the hole and the cue ball to stop there for a shot on the 13. The 6 looks dead if you hit the 8, right?

START(
%FH7Z8%HJ1Z8%Kr2T4%MI1K0%Pk9O1%Uq8S9%Vk9N9%YL4[1%Zs0S3%]s6[5
%^r3T4%eB7`9
)END

 

[Cornerman]

Had I been your opponent and had ball in hand I would have shot the following shot instead of the one diagrammed above. Even if I were to miss the break out, which isn't too tough with ball in hand, I could still duck off of the 13. If I hit it well, I'm expecting for the 6 to go in the hole and the cue ball to stop there for a shot on the 13. The 6 looks dead if you hit the 8, right?

START(
%FH7Z8%HJ1Z8%Kr2T4%MI1K0%Pk9O1%Uq8S9%Vk9N9%YL4[1%Zs0S3%]s6[5
%^r3T4%eB7`9
)END

Me too.

Fred