9-ball Has No Patteren Play

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THE SILENCER

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for those who think 9-ball is a smart game, think about this, 9-ball has no patteren play. it has position play which is totally different. position play is the route you take to get to your next destination. patteren play is what order you decide to take the balls off to make it easier for yourself. 9-ball has no patteren play because you are forced to go in numerical order, choking your creative pattern play. think about it. p.s. straight pool is the ULTIMATE patteren play game.
 
Nine ball has lots of pattern play that comes up over and over again. Often groups of balls will lay in such a way that there is a clear pattern to taking them off the table.

John
 
9-ball is a pattern game. The patterns for straight pool are ever-changing, you make a few balls, send the cueball into the pack, and new patterns emerge. After the break in 9-ball, there is a layout of the balls which opts for a particular pattern to run them out the easiest possible way. The patterns in 9-ball often do not change, provided a player does not miss and move balls from one spot to another, or there is safety play.
 
I see what the Silencer means, and that's exactly why I love 8-ball -
In 9-ball the only tactics are in working out how to get position for the next 2 balls (given that your position on the next ball should give you an angle to get on the ball after that), whether/how to try to move balls for later in the run (clusters, making easier shots), and when to duck.

In 8-ball there's also the sequence to take the balls off - you're thinking 8 balls ahead, instead of 3, and it's much more open and creative.
Plus there's the decision of whether to attempt the finish, whether to take off some of your balls, or whether to just try to improve the spread of your balls (or make things harder for the other guy).
 
9 ball is definitely a pattern game. One pattern for one person might be another for someone else. There is many ways to run a rack. Earl might take one pattern an Efren might take another. A guy who likes to draw might do it different from someone who relies on his top english. Such is the case with straight pool. Patterns are there to help you run out and which pattern is up to the individual. Thats what makes this game unique and exciting. Any beginner knows this.
 
For everyone in disagreement, please try and realize the difference between pattern and position.
 
I would say it would depend on the player. You can play 9-ball 75% of the time, if not more from center table. Meaning that after each shot, you move the CB back to the center of the table and you will almost always have a shot on the next ball. There just isn't enough traffic on the table not to. Then you could be the type that wants to line up the CB in a certain way on each and every ball to get the ideal shot on the next ball. Pattern vs. Position.
 
Pin said:
I see what the Silencer means, and that's exactly why I love 8-ball -
In 9-ball the only tactics are in working out how to get position for the next 2 balls (given that your position on the next ball should give you an angle to get on the ball after that), whether/how to try to move balls for later in the run (clusters, making easier shots), and when to duck.

In 8-ball there's also the sequence to take the balls off - you're thinking 8 balls ahead, instead of 3, and it's much more open and creative.
Plus there's the decision of whether to attempt the finish, whether to take off some of your balls, or whether to just try to improve the spread of your balls (or make things harder for the other guy).
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True. Well, I'd say in 8-ball you have a pattern that you have to think you last shot (8-ball) first and then think your way through to the first ball you're about to shoot. And of course you can play in a way that you don't necessarily have to be spot on with your position play. Usually you can choose which ball to take.
 
I don't consider pattern play to be the single criteria for establishing the "smartness" of a game..

It's pretty obvious that you dislike 9ball, which is fine, and pretty odd (I love ALL pool games I've tried), but what do you think is the CONSTRUCTIVE point of this thread?

Is it a pissing contest? Is it just a platform for you to troll for conflict? Or do you have a real, responsible, valuable message that is worth our reading this thread?

If you were to ask "Does anyone see nine ball as a game conducive to pattern play?" I would be a lot happier - as would other here, I bet.

Instead, you seem to be bashing a popular game for no clear reason.
 
I do agree, though, that as far as pattern-heavy games go (not smart games, just pattern-heavy), 14.1 is the best. Though, what about Rotation or 1P?
 
THE SILENCER posted this;

for those who think 9-ball is a smart game, think about this, 9-ball has no patteren play. it has position play which is totally different. position play is the route you take to get to your next destination. patteren play is what order you decide to take the balls off to make it easier for yourself. 9-ball has no patteren play because you are forced to go in numerical order, choking your creative pattern play.
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I have some trouble understanding what you think is a "SMART" game?

Why do you compare 8 and 9 ball as smart games?

My experiences with 8 ball and 9 ball players (at the B and higher skill levels, including the PROS) are pretty much equally good at 8 and 9 ball.

Pool is about making the shot, cue ball control and table management.

If you want to talk about SMART pool (I'm guessing you think SMART pool is more pattern play than anything else) , 14.1 and One Pocket are much more complicated than 8 or 9 ball. Pool players have to THINK when playing 14.1 and One Pocket.

8 ball and 9 ball do not require as much thinking, but it is still required. (if you want to win)
 
pattern play vs position play is a grey area at best

For instance, if you take the 7,8,9 and throw them out on the table.

There will be several different ways to attack the balls (IE different patterns) to run them in order.

However, there is generally a best way to do it and this is what seperates the pros from the almost-pros. The pros are going to pick the best position routes and patterns that allow them to stay in line and keep the correct angle on subsequent shots.

This may mean getting an angle on the 7 that allows them to come 2 rails into the angle required on the 8. Therefore, you only have to worry about speed of the shot. Coming 2 rails gives them the correct angle...wherever the cueball stops on that line.

But some players may play this same shot 1 rail, and CROSS the desired angle line, therefore there is less margin for error and more of a chance to get out of line.

Recognizing these little nuances in the heat of battle and executing them is second nature to pro 9-ballers
 
yeah, i think that assuming there is no pattern play in 9 ball is to assume that each ball has an assigned starting location and an assigned pocket and that you could only take a straight-in shot. that would be the only way to only play position in the game (since your pattern would be pre-established).


you shoot the balls in order, but how you do so is highly dynamic. you have to pick your patterns and the position zones for shooting those patterns. one is dependent on the other.

i guess the point of conflict is that i don't consider pattern play to be SIMPLY the order in which you choose to pot balls. there are 6 pockets, after all, and there may be a couple dozen ways to drop a particular ball and get to a particular position determined by the way you choose to pattern the next ball. you don't just go from point A to point B. first you have to decide what you want A to be and what you want B to be...

right?
 
Whether you play POSITION for the side pocket or POSITION for the corner pocket, you are still playing POSITION. I see the PATTERN as the easiest way to clear all object balls by the order which they are shot. A smart player will pick his PATTERN by determining which order allows him to move the cueball the least while still allowing the easiest shot.

However, I totally agree that you can't label 9 ball as an unintelligent game based solely on this observation. I prefer 8 ball and more recently one-pocket, but I'll play any game as long as the competition is good, the competitor is friendly, and the beer is cold.
 
BazookaJoe said:
I'll play any game as long as the competition is good, the competitor is friendly, and the beer is cold.
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Tap, Tap, Tap
 
The original post stated that 9 ball has no pattern play which the response has showed that this notion is fraught with ignorance of the game. I started playing straight pool as my heroes were Danny Diliberto, Steve Mizerak, Cowboy Jimmy Moore, etc. Now I am stuck on one pocket. But after watching Buddy Hall, Earl Strickland, Johnny Archer, I have great respect for the game. And look at all the Filipinos who excel in Rotation. Are you saying that Rotation is not a smart game. If you could play the game you could see the infinite number of patterns that you could use to run out. Of course you would have to play great position but the different patterns are there if only you were TRAINED to see it. This is the clearest example when you watch Efren play. He does not run balls in rotation in the orthodox way that Phil Capelle or Nick Varner or a George Fels would instruct. But often he takes creative ways that is related to what he feels comfortable with and what his stroke allows. Man he looks all wrong and then he comes of that third rail and that ball just drifts into perfect position making his run out patterns with his own signature. "If you dont underestimate me I wont underestimate you" Bob Dylan once said. Dont underestimat the nine ball game.
 
I think the same thing about 9ball that yobagua thinks about so many other games (including rotation). yes, when the ball is shot, you're playing position. but choosing which pocket you're shooting into so that you can get to whichever position zone you want for the next ball IS pattern play, in my book.

if the 8 is on the head spot and the 9 is on the foot spot, and you have to run them in order, you still choose the pattern NOT OF BALL ORDER but the pattern of POSITION ZONES. you might choose a zone for the 7 that will lead you to a certain zone for the 8 which will lead you to a certain zone for the nine. stringing together the zones you choose is, to me, considered pattern play.

it isn't just picking which ball you're gonna hit. it's picking how you're gonna hit it so that you may play to a certain position that you choose... the two go hand in hand, don't they?
 
9-ball is a pattern game, straight pool is a position game. In 9-ball you play area position, in straight pool you play precise position. The patterns in straight pool change every few shots, in 9-ball the layout of the table after the break has a pattern that is the easiest path to run out the rack.

No, straight pool is not the ULTIMATE pattern game like someone said. Try playing rotation, and then you'll know why Efren plays it instead of straight pool.
 
tobyjoe said:
I do agree, though, that as far as pattern-heavy games go (not smart games, just pattern-heavy), 14.1 is the best. Though, what about Rotation or 1P?
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I know a little about rotation, I hold the world record for the high run, 75 balls. I have broke and ran 3 racks of cribbage in a row, I used pattern play. There is a lot of pattern play in 9 ball and a lot of patterns that repeat over and over, Master those and the game becomes easy. My 5th DVD is planned to go into the subject in great detal, expect it out for the May BCA nationals team championships in Vegas, I will introduce it there. I be one of the pro's in the challenge the stars. I have rejoined the BCA and I am putting our relationship back on track. I'll also be entertaining at the BCA Vegas trade show as well in early April, come see me there. I'll have a different DVD coming out every month on a different subject beginning at the first ones release at the Hopkins show in Phil, Pa where I'll be showing and competiting at the Masters tourney. If any body wants to learn this 9 ball pattern play, I will be conducting lessons with the Power Source Pool School all over the NE late march and early April, Ct, NYC, Phil, Pa, Wash DC, Charlotte, NC, Las Vegas. I can show you how proper pattern play at 9 ball is the secret to becoming a run out player. :D
 
yogabona you are wrong and pin, you are correct. choosing draw over follow on a particular shot, is not, i repeat is not patteren play it's positional play.
 
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