9-ball Has No Patteren Play

  • Thread starter Thread starter THE SILENCER
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your correct and your wrong all at the same time. efren does play position exactly the way you described, however, that is pure POSITION position is NOT pattern play. let me try to explain the difference again. position is someone telling you, when you walk the third piece of side walk will be slightly slanted be carefull. patteren play is someone leaving you at the bottom of an upside down sunken ship, and your alone and have to figure out, where the hell to start. i know that was a crazy analogy, but remember this, position and patteren are two seperate things.
 
THE SILENCER said:
your correct and your wrong all at the same time. efren does play position exactly the way you described, however, that is pure POSITION position is NOT pattern play. let me try to explain the difference again. position is someone telling you, when you walk the third piece of side walk will be slightly slanted be carefull. patteren play is someone leaving you at the bottom of an upside down sunken ship, and your alone and have to figure out, where the hell to start. i know that was a crazy analogy, but remember this, position and patteren are two seperate things.
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This definition is YOUR definition, not THE definition. In fact, from the looks of it, not many people here agree with your definition.
 
Silencer I dont think I could learn anything from you. Especially spelling. If you are going to preserve the great world of pool and billiards try learning the English language first. You cant even spell PATTERN much less explain it. By the way music did not start with the Beatles ask all the Black rhythm and blues musicians who they ripped their music off of.
 
THE SILENCER said:
yogabona you are wrong and pin, you are correct. choosing draw over follow on a particular shot, is not, i repeat is not patteren play it's positional play.
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Pin's right in your mind as he's the only person, notice ONLY person, who's actually agreed with you :D

There is obviously pattern play in 9 ball. You study the rack and chose the pattern you will use to clear it. You then use position to achieve the pattern you see.
 
Silencer swimming out of a sunken ship is not usually subjected to the ship moving thus changing the direction you must swim out every time you flap your arms. In straight pool, the patterns change nearly every other shot, since you must break up clusters, so how is straight pool a pattern game? Straight pool is purely a positional game. To play the game well it requires precise position play. To play 9-ball well, ANY professional 9-ball player will tell you, it requires of course skill but area position and being able to see run-out patterns. PATTERNS, get it? In pool, a pattern generally is something that is set right from the break, it is the layout of the balls, and the ways to weave the cueball in and out without running into traffic. Straight pool requires you to run in to traffic, therefore it is not a pattern game, because the patterns are ever-changing. It is a game that requires precise position play.
 
Jeez, we're all having fun with these semantics then?

If we phrase it thus:

In 9 ball the game dictates the sequence in which you pot the balls, meaning your main tactical concern is position.

In 8 ball you can run your 7 balls in any sequence you like, but you try to work out the best sequence to clear the table.
This adds another mental element, on top of those present in 9 ball.

Then can we stop bickering about definitions?


I'm not going to say one is 'harder' than the other - in my opinion, both are as difficult as your opponent - but I know that I find 8 ball to be more mentally challenging.
 
Yeah, Pin's desire to skip the definitions is good.

It leads to us understanding something that was very, very obvious before: aside from combination shots, you have to drop a particular ball first in nine ball.

Wow. Great point.

Still doesn't mean that it's not a smart game.

The most obvious point to argue would be the one that bugs me the most: you can crap in balls all day long and they count.

That makes the game as difficult as your opponent's luck...
 
Jeez mineez, there are patterns in all the games where there are 3 or more balls, okay? What's the big deal of whether there is a pattern or not? There just is, okay? Wouldn't it be better to talk about how to recognize the pattern you should play?

Yobagua, did I spell mineez right?
 
Hey Rick W. at least you spelled my name right. You are right on. My point about spelling was why debate with someone who makes a lame statement like "9 ball is for babys". There is no need to. Now if a Efren or Buddy or Archer said it then I'd listen. Its not about semantics its attitude. To some people Soccer is a lame sport guys just running up and down a field not scoring anything. People not from the US cant get our pro football. "Why would you just run head long into another person? What skill is that?". For me who grew up in the Pacific never understood Hockey. Guys on Ice punching each other out. But when I went to Canada on a job I met a lot of Hockey fans who sincelrely loved their game. I realized that something you dont understand you should respect others feelings and points of view of the game. I grew up on bar pool 8 ball. I then went to straight pool because of The Hustler and Mosconi. I hated 9 ball because all the young guys were robbing me at it. But I started playing it and as I got better at it found the joy of that game. I starting beating all the young guns at it. I then met Efren and realized he loved all the cue games and tried to Master them all. Do you know his favorite is Balkline? I tried to pattern myself after him. His Attitude. I just felt the original post did not reflect this and presented something more direspectful to the game and those who loved it.
 
Yobagua,

Thanks. I totally understand what you're saying. You may not like opera, but you have to appreciate the talent the people that perform in it have. Actually, I like opera, I'm just using it as an example.

You are fortunate to have met Efren. I've seen him play many times in person and have tremendous respect for him. I like his attitude almost as much as the way he plays. I had heard before that Efren likes billiards but I didn't know which game of billiards he liked the most. I didn't know they even played balkline anymore. Most of the billiards I see is 3 cushion.
 
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I figured I'd chime in and help THE SILENCER out by giving accurate definitions of pattern (also known as "patteren", apparently) and position. According to Webster, the most pool relevent definitions of the words are:

Pattern:
a) a natural or chance configuration.
b) a discernible coherent system based on the intended interrelationship of component parts (in this case, the component parts would be balls).

Position:
the point or area occupied by a physical object (in this case, the cue ball).

So, to help you out here, based on the dictionary definition of these words, position would be the relative position of the cue ball and the next object ball. It refers to ONE shot. The cue ball is in one position before any shot, and ends up in a new position after that shot. Pattern is the route, or system, that is selected "based on the intended interrelationship of component parts" (object balls). So, unless THE SILENCER is more familiar with the English language than Webster, patterns are definitely a part of 9 ball.
 
There is Pattern Play in nine ball for sure. There is more intricate pattern play in straight pool, that is for sure, but 9 ball has its share too. Playing position for a stop shot so that you can get the right angle so you can make three rail shape on the following ball, is choosing a pattern. On the same table you could choose a different pocket all together make one rail shape and draw straight back for position. That is 2 different patterns. A pattern is merely the way you choose to clear the rack. Position choosing where to put the ball after each shot. Position happens 1 shot at a time, where a pattern unfolds throughout a rack. IMHO
 
There is Pattern Play in nine ball for sure. There is more intricate pattern play in straight pool, that is for sure, but 9 ball has its share too. Playing position for a stop shot so that you can get the right angle so you can make three rail shape on the following ball, is choosing a pattern. On the same table you could choose a different pocket all together make one rail shape and draw straight back for position. That is 2 different patterns. A pattern is merely the way you choose to clear the rack. Position choosing where to put the ball after each shot. Position happens 1 shot at a time, where a pattern unfolds throughout a rack. IMHO If i was wrong there wouldnt be a chapter in Capelles 'Play your best 9-ball' titled 'Pattern Play'
 
Every pool game has common factors...pattern/position play make up a large percentage of the pie. I personally think BERNIE is a sham, but what do I know? Though 9-ball isnt my favorite flavor, it does offer some tastey patterns!!

Voodoo~~~obviously just a small pirana in the shark tank of life
 
Playing "position" is how you successfully execute a "pattern". To say a given game is a position game tells me you are only looking one ball ahead.
 
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