A better game than 9 ball...

Snapshot9

Snapshot9

son of 3 leg 1 eye dog ..
Silver Member
Everyone always complains about 9 ball.
What if you used all 15 balls, racked like 8 ball
except put the 15 where the 8 would go, and
then played 15 ball like you would 9 ball.
(not rotation, but like 9 ball).

Would this make it harder and a better game
for the pros? The break would be harder too.
More ball clusters, more skill to get out.

Seems to me that this might separate the really good
from the kind of good... I think it would be more of
a challenge.
 
Yeah, that sounds interesting, but why don't people just play more rotation? Are there any videos out there that I can buy that shows a tournament in rotation? I'd pay good money for a video showing Efren in some rotation action (i'm still talking about pool).
 
Sure it does ...

pinkisntwell said:
A game where the last ball wins hasn't got much to it if it's immensely hard to get out.
Click to expand...

So then, you don't think much about 1 pocket, because
many 1 pocket games come down to the last ball to win,
and it is hard to get out.

I disagree with you though, and think the better players
would like it because it would be harder than 9 ball, and that
you would have to play better than in 9 ball.
 
Snapshot9 said:
Everyone always complains about 9 ball.
What if you used all 15 balls, racked like 8 ball
except put the 15 where the 8 would go, and
then played 15 ball like you would 9 ball.
(not rotation, but like 9 ball).

Would this make it harder and a better game
for the pros? The break would be harder too.
More ball clusters, more skill to get out.

Seems to me that this might separate the really good
from the kind of good... I think it would be more of
a challenge.
Click to expand...

I had some thoughts of straight pool played with a 10 ball rack. You get one point for each ball pocketed and you get 1 point extra if you hit the next ball in rotation. So if you hit in this order 5,4,3,2 you would get 4 points, If you hit in this order 2,3,4,5, you would get 8 points. I messed around with this on my home table and it had a lot of strategy to it. You can hit them in rotation until you pick your break ball and then you have to hit the rest out of rotation. An alternative is to get the points of the ball you hit in for hitting in rotation(like the game of rotation). So if you hit the 2 when the 2 is the lowest on the table, you get 2 points, if the 3 is the lowest, you get 3.
 
pinkisntwell said:
A game where the last ball wins hasn't got much to it if it's immensely hard to get out.
Click to expand...
Do I smell fear in snooker land??? Fifteen-ball is the shit. Change the 3-foul rule to 5 and lets get it on. Fifteen ball would be better than Rotation, imho. How about this:
Local room weekly tournaments - 9-ball
Regional tours - 10-ball
Pro tours regular events - 12-ball
Pro Majors - 15-ball

unknownpro
 
Snapshot9 said:
So then, you don't think much about 1 pocket, because
many 1 pocket games come down to the last ball to win,
and it is hard to get out.
Click to expand...

Yes but in one pocket every ball you make in your pocket counts. In 9ball it doesn't, only the money ball matters. That's what I was saying. In 15ball it would be very very tough to get out from the break so it wouldn't make much sense.

Actually, I've thought of reverse Rotation, play Rotation with the old rules, only the balls have to be made in reverse order, from higher to lower number. That way the first balls (the ones tougher to make) score the most. Of course in this game the 61 limit will (probably) have to be changed.
 
I say play the rotation as is. There's nothing wrong with the game. Yes, potting only 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 will win you the game, that's still better than games where only one ball counts.

Out of one ball count games, 10ball would be my choice for the pro's. Small pockets like recent WPC and US Open of course. How about also increasing the table size to 10ft? I've heard 14.1 used to be played on 10ft tables some years ago. What ever happened to those things?
 
predator said:
I say play the rotation as is. There's nothing wrong with the game. Yes, potting only 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 will win you the game, that's still better than games where only one ball counts.

Out of one ball count games, 10ball would be my choice for the pro's. Small pockets like recent WPC and US Open of course. How about also increasing the table size to 10ft? I've heard 14.1 used to be played on 10ft tables some years ago. What ever happened to those things?
Click to expand...
There are still a few around. I'm sure they eventually will go back to 10-footers to make the game a little harder.

What rules do they use in the phillipines for fouls in rotation.

unknownpro
 
Whats the highest run anyone has seen or done shooting 15 balls in order?
I have witnessed someone break and run 2 consecutive racks of 15 ball, shooting in order.. 30 balls in rotation is pretty damn strong if you ask me; but Im curious if any of the pros practise this, and what their high run is.
 
I tend to think that ring game type formats can create the most attractive TV content.

You can have 6 players in the one match, meaning a cumulative audience of fans.

There are big incentives for big shot making rather than the defensive shots that tend to bore audiences.

I notice with 9-ball that the players rarely go for hard shots. They'll take a higher percentage safety option. We'd get much better highlights packages from ring game type formats where you've gotta make a shot or sit in you seat for 15 minutes losing money.

Another aspect of the game that has been overlooked is 'kelly pool', that is, where players have a secret ball. This leads to bluffing and mental skills in reading your opponents, just like in poker. That would keep Earl from going to sleep in his chair. You need to watch your opponent, study where they glimpse, see what lines they are playing for and try to work out the ball they are on.
 
Last edited:
Snapshot9 said:
Everyone always complains about 9 ball.
What if you used all 15 balls, racked like 8 ball
except put the 15 where the 8 would go, and
then played 15 ball like you would 9 ball.
(not rotation, but like 9 ball).

Would this make it harder and a better game
for the pros? The break would be harder too.
More ball clusters, more skill to get out.

Seems to me that this might separate the really good
from the kind of good... I think it would be more of
a challenge.
Click to expand...

Think about it...you would have shit-safes galore. Nobody would care if they missed a ball early in the rack, it's like 95% to get safe.
 
Snapshot9 said:
Everyone always complains about 9 ball.
What if you used all 15 balls, racked like 8 ball
except put the 15 where the 8 would go, and
then played 15 ball like you would 9 ball.
(not rotation, but like 9 ball).

Would this make it harder and a better game
for the pros? The break would be harder too.
More ball clusters, more skill to get out.

Seems to me that this might separate the really good
from the kind of good... I think it would be more of
a challenge.
Click to expand...


i don't like it. all that work to clear balls and you only win on the 15? nope. regular rotation is more creative
 
5aheadforpinks said:
Whats the highest run anyone has seen or done shooting 15 balls in order?
I have witnessed someone break and run 2 consecutive racks of 15 ball, shooting in order.. 30 balls in rotation is pretty damn strong if you ask me; but Im curious if any of the pros practise this, and what their high run is.
Click to expand...

fastlarry says he holds the world record at 5 or 6 racks. he says he has done one more rack than efren. don't know that anyone believes him though.
 
More thoughts ....

I like rotation also, but I don't think the pro people would
be in favor of scoring keeping for rotation, and besides, it
is fairly easy to get big points in rotation with a combo or
carom.

That's why I think 15 ball would be better. Same format as
9 ball (proven Televised game), not much different except
more balls, and increased difficulty to run the table. Yes,
probably more safes, but then also more exciting kick shots
and jump shots too. The mental part of the game would come
into play more. 15 ball would be more on the level of 8 ball
with more complexity. In 9 ball, 2 10's can pretty well stay
together in an ahead or race set, but in 15 ball, it would help
distinguish if one player was a 10.4 and the other was a 10.8.
( I rate players this way, with one decimal). In a game with
increased difficulty, that 'little better' part shows up where
it would not otherwise in a game that was easier.

You see this all the time with 1 pocket players, especially with
spots involved, the one that can spot 10-6 as opposed to 9-7.

Instead of just criticizing my suggestion, why don't you try a few
racks of 15 ball with a friend, then come back and give your opinion.
 
Here's a MUCH Better Suggestion

Actually, Rotation sounds like an excellent TV game, but make the 5, 10, and 15 money balls. 5 is one point, 10 is 2, 15 is 3.

Each set would be a race to 21 or 30.

Interpreter of the Billiard Gods
Comming Soon:
Handbook of the Billiard Gods, Appendix A
www.billiardgods.com
 
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