Probably a buzz ring
"A" joint question(s) - broke forearm (s)
- Thread starter Dirtbmw20
- Start date
The 'A' joint is the heart of the cue. No other area of the cue will contribute more to the 'hit'
of that cue, the 'feel' of that cue and maybe even 'how' it plays. This is merely personal opinion BTW.
Everything coming down the pike from the tip to the grip-hand has to cross that bridge.
Will the hit be solid and pure or will it be muttled and lacking?
A-jnt. design and construction can figure prominently in a CM's signature hit.
The more broken cues that you get a chance to see, the more you'll realize that just about all of them
are different to one another as far as A-jnt. design. Many similar but not quite the same.
Each manufacturer has their own version and for the most part, they stick to it.
A lot are of the tenon & screw configuration with different manufacturers using different dimensions.
At least two that I know of don't use a tenon and rely solely on the screw.
Another couple that I know of use neither a tenon nor a screw but rather a finger jnt. connection.
Those that do a full length core don't have an A-jnt to contend with, nor does a full-splice.
A knowledgeable builder will construct the A-jnt to their advantage for the purpose of wght. distribution and
possibly overall cue wght. This is an area where forward weighting can be achieved without the use of a steel collar.
The A-jnt is also an area where you want to build-in the most strength.
It's essentially where the front 1/2 of the cue is connected to back 1/2.
Most people will assume that the jnt. where the shaft connects to the cue
is where the 1/2s meet and on a practical, visual level they would be correct.
As a builder, I look at it a little differently. The shaft is an extension of the F/A.
Cues flex. When the tip strikes the cue-ball the shaft buckles and recoils.
This is what initiates the vibration that we know as 'the hit'; what you feel in your grip hand.
The shaft flexes and to a much lesser degree, the F/A flexes. That's where the flexing should cease.
A well constructed 'A'-jnt. should bring all that flexing to an abrupt or a controlled halt.
Flex the 'A'-jnt once too often and you're well on your way to degrading the construction integrity of the cue.
It's not meant to flex there, not to any appreciable degree anyway. Otherwise, bad things start to happen.
You may have noticed on some cues that the finish is lifted from the rings at the 'C' position.
That's caused by flexing the A-jnt. Polished rings make for a lousy surface to apply finish to anyway.
Now we're going to flex that area and put the finish to the test. Bingo, the finish lifted.
Flexing the A-jnt can have other less than desirable effects; noises, rattles and buzzes (not the good kind either).
The A-jnt tenon and screw are basically what's holding the cue together.
Take away the epoxy and the wood overlapping the tenon and you're left with the screw. It needs to be capable.
It's for this reason that I won't use an aluminum screw at the A-jnt though I know of some manufacturers that do.
The aluminum screw will snap just as easily as the wood does.
I've seen this numerous times first hand and in examples shown here on the forum. Aluminum doesn't have the strength.
In my 25 yrs. of building, I've tinkered with A-jnt design construction probably more than any other area of the cue.
To me, it's the most important. That's where it all starts. It's the foundation that everything else is built upon.
Get the A-jnt wrong and the whole cue is wrong. That however, may be a very subjective statement.
How you construct your A-jnt is entirely up to you and who is to tell you that it's wrong?
Is there only one correct design out there and if so, who's is it?
In a current thread concerning the A-jnt, Tony of Guerra Cues states:
"the A joint is a cuemaker's best kept secret".
Here, here and well it should be. The A-jnt can add or take away everything. This is the science of cue-making.
You know what you want in the hit of your cue and this is your chance/area to express it.
Every component that goes into the build of a cue can be bought. What separates one cue from another is the construction.
The A-jnt is where it all starts.
KJ
of that cue, the 'feel' of that cue and maybe even 'how' it plays. This is merely personal opinion BTW.
Everything coming down the pike from the tip to the grip-hand has to cross that bridge.
Will the hit be solid and pure or will it be muttled and lacking?
A-jnt. design and construction can figure prominently in a CM's signature hit.
The more broken cues that you get a chance to see, the more you'll realize that just about all of them
are different to one another as far as A-jnt. design. Many similar but not quite the same.
Each manufacturer has their own version and for the most part, they stick to it.
A lot are of the tenon & screw configuration with different manufacturers using different dimensions.
At least two that I know of don't use a tenon and rely solely on the screw.
Another couple that I know of use neither a tenon nor a screw but rather a finger jnt. connection.
Those that do a full length core don't have an A-jnt to contend with, nor does a full-splice.
A knowledgeable builder will construct the A-jnt to their advantage for the purpose of wght. distribution and
possibly overall cue wght. This is an area where forward weighting can be achieved without the use of a steel collar.
The A-jnt is also an area where you want to build-in the most strength.
It's essentially where the front 1/2 of the cue is connected to back 1/2.
Most people will assume that the jnt. where the shaft connects to the cue
is where the 1/2s meet and on a practical, visual level they would be correct.
As a builder, I look at it a little differently. The shaft is an extension of the F/A.
Cues flex. When the tip strikes the cue-ball the shaft buckles and recoils.
This is what initiates the vibration that we know as 'the hit'; what you feel in your grip hand.
The shaft flexes and to a much lesser degree, the F/A flexes. That's where the flexing should cease.
A well constructed 'A'-jnt. should bring all that flexing to an abrupt or a controlled halt.
Flex the 'A'-jnt once too often and you're well on your way to degrading the construction integrity of the cue.
It's not meant to flex there, not to any appreciable degree anyway. Otherwise, bad things start to happen.
You may have noticed on some cues that the finish is lifted from the rings at the 'C' position.
That's caused by flexing the A-jnt. Polished rings make for a lousy surface to apply finish to anyway.
Now we're going to flex that area and put the finish to the test. Bingo, the finish lifted.
Flexing the A-jnt can have other less than desirable effects; noises, rattles and buzzes (not the good kind either).
The A-jnt tenon and screw are basically what's holding the cue together.
Take away the epoxy and the wood overlapping the tenon and you're left with the screw. It needs to be capable.
It's for this reason that I won't use an aluminum screw at the A-jnt though I know of some manufacturers that do.
The aluminum screw will snap just as easily as the wood does.
I've seen this numerous times first hand and in examples shown here on the forum. Aluminum doesn't have the strength.
In my 25 yrs. of building, I've tinkered with A-jnt design construction probably more than any other area of the cue.
To me, it's the most important. That's where it all starts. It's the foundation that everything else is built upon.
Get the A-jnt wrong and the whole cue is wrong. That however, may be a very subjective statement.
How you construct your A-jnt is entirely up to you and who is to tell you that it's wrong?
Is there only one correct design out there and if so, who's is it?
In a current thread concerning the A-jnt, Tony of Guerra Cues states:
"the A joint is a cuemaker's best kept secret".
Here, here and well it should be. The A-jnt can add or take away everything. This is the science of cue-making.
You know what you want in the hit of your cue and this is your chance/area to express it.
Every component that goes into the build of a cue can be bought. What separates one cue from another is the construction.
The A-jnt is where it all starts.
KJ
I'll be honest to tell you that I didn't compose that all in one sitting.
I had to go at it a little at a time.
It took me several weeks based on the start-date of your thread.
My AZB-time lately comes at a premium.
I'm glad that you got something from my post.
That makes the time spent composing it worthwhile.
No specifics were given (dimensions, etc.) for a reason.
It's not about how I build the A-jnt or how anyone else does for that matter.
The intent is to get the reader to think about how THEY would build the jnt.
The designs currently being used obviously work, some better than others.
There's a lot to be learned from those designs.
Learn so that you can make yours better.
Thank You, KJ
WTH ?????
This is one of two Meucci's that were given to me with broken forearms. I had previously cut the forearm off and left the handle WITH wrap still on the cue. I took the linen wrap off last night and found this..........
There is a 1" piece of phenolic that was "sleeved" onto the top of the handle. I guess to make the handle longer ??? Anybody ever seen this before ??? It's like they screwed up and made the handle too short and had to add an extra inch to it. I don't have the experience most of you have and just wondered if this was normal ???
Sent from my SCH-I535
That is very similar as to how I build my A-joints.I feel it is the strongest. Instead of one component (handle or forearm) having a tenon and the other a bored hole, both components have a tenon so that neither is weakened by having a thin walled circumference.
I use a 1.500" long piece of phenolic that is bored to .740. After glueing on the this sleeve to the forearm I rebore to .750. In this way I can true up the ID after installing on the handle or forearm. This insures that both components are a perfectly aligned fit. I use either a steel or aluminum all thread at different lengths to attain the weight and balance point that I desire.
Dick
Thank you very much for that info Dick. VERY interesting and VERY informative. I'm really amazed at how many different types of A-joints are used. I would have never guessed that so many builders did it so many different ways.
Thanks you once again, this has been one of the most informative and helpful threads for myself. Thanks to all that have contributed and that will continue to contribute to this thread.
Lee
good thread
This has really turned into a good learning thread! I am very impressed with the intelligent questions and the knowledge and details of the answers. Good job KJ, Dick, Ryan and others, Lee I look forward to seeing how your project turns out (good or bad). Keep the questions coming and the GOOD answers to.
Thank You, Jim
This has really turned into a good learning thread! I am very impressed with the intelligent questions and the knowledge and details of the answers. Good job KJ, Dick, Ryan and others, Lee I look forward to seeing how your project turns out (good or bad). Keep the questions coming and the GOOD answers to.
Thank You, Jim