A messed up situation that I think you all should know about

M

mashokist

Member
Hello all,

A little while ago I had a Scruggs cue up for sale

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=122665

that I worked a deal out with Bandit-sTf-. We agreed on a some what strange trade deal, but it went like this. He sent me $400 up front with a Scruggs sneaky that had an original shaft and a 314 matched that he said was in 'excellent condition' and for that he would get the butt of the cue with 2 of the 3 shafts, the third shaft would be purchased from me at VF for $200.

I didn't think anything of it until I found out from a friend the other day that Bandit was selling the cue on here with 2 of the shafts:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=131854
I gave Bandit the benifit of the doubt and sent him a message asking if he would still honor his end of the deal and this is what he said:

"Sorry man i cant now. I got in a real bind this month with things at home and needed some money bad. The guy i sold the cue to will probally buy the shaft from you. ****** is the guy who bought it so you can message him and see. I am sorry

Bandit"

upon looking at his posting of the cue I realized that he did a poor job of listing it and out right lied about the condition, the shafts never rolled straight, there is a taper wobble on both the shafts he has. there are some other things that the person buying it might like to know, now I don't know if they had conversations about the cue other than what was posted there, but I think that it is shady, and messed up that I wont get my money for the deal we made.

So all in all, I was foolish for letting a deal linger that long, but that dosen't excuse the other things that went on with this deal, so all i can say is if you deal with Bandit-sTf- be careful i got burned at both ends of this deal.
 
That's a hard lesson learned. I will not deal with anybody unless I can get some info. I know I wouldn't deal with him because his word doesn't mean anything. Just remember your "word" is all that you have, no one can take that away from you, and once you lose it it is hard to get back.
 
I just checked that thread you linked and noticed no negative comments in his i-trader history. Just curious as to why you haven't posted any negative feedback on his i-trader page.
 
rep

Thanks for the feedback, i spaced out leaving i-trader remarks.

also, the new owner of the cue is not satisfied with the transaction either, so beware of Bandit-sTf-
 
mashokist said:
...........

upon looking at his posting of the cue I realized that he did a poor job of listing it and out right lied about the condition, the shafts never rolled straight, there is a taper wobble on both the shafts he has. there are some other things that the person buying it might like to know, ..........
Click to expand...

it sucks when deals like this go awry but then again......

what's funny is how you don't mention the shafts 'taper wobble' and how the "the shafts never rolled straight" and maybe even your statement "there are some other things that the person buying it might like to know" in you're original sale posting yet you're willing to come on here and trash someone else claiming they did a "poor job of listing it" and stating those as reasons for deceptiveness when you did the same thing and you were the original owner who knew all of the cues shortcomings yet failed to mention any of them.....if you're gonna trash someone in this manner maybe you need to look up what the law calls the concept of 'clean hands' before entering a deal or persecuting someone....

for the record i know neither of the people in this transaction, just making an observation........

skins --------- has clean hands............
 
Not mentioning something and outright lying about it constitutes two very different things in fraud cases- particularly the reliance aspect of fraud. The purchaser would rely on Bandit's assertion that the cue is straight and purchase the cue, and lose money because it isn't straight so the value is lowered. From what I read in Mashokist's original thread, he never said his cue was straight and had no wobbles. That would be up to the buyer to inquire on. But honestly, 1250 for a nice scruggs? And you don't even ask if it's straight or not? :rolleyes:
 
I'm must be missing something.

You made 2 deals:
1. Scruggs SP + $400.00 cash for your Scruggs w/ 2 shafts
2. You agreed on a price for a future transaction - $200.00 for a shaft

You both agreed to #1 and each did your part so that was a completed deal.

Later he decided to sell what was 100% HIS Scruggs and you don't like that because he had to back out of Deal #2 due to a change in his situation?

Deal #2 has no impact whatsoever on Deal #1.

He bought the Scruggs from you and then sold it.

All this crap about accurate description? Well, it looks like neither party can point fingers there. You know, glass houses and all.

-von
 
jcommie said:
Not mentioning something and outright lying about it constitutes two very different things in fraud cases- particularly the reliance aspect of fraud. The purchaser would rely on Bandit's assertion that the cue is straight and purchase the cue, and lose money because it isn't straight so the value is lowered. From what I read in Mashokist's original thread, he never said his cue was straight and had no wobbles. That would be up to the buyer to inquire on. But honestly, 1250 for a nice scruggs? And you don't even ask if it's straight or not? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

have you ever heard of the phrase "guilt by omission"......probably not......neither has he......
 
I'd love to see you nail a non-corporate individual for fraud based on "guilt by omission". In most cases, unless it's a large corporation or business vs. uninformed consumer, the judge will take one look at your case and throw it out. The reliance argument only works if there is significant information asymmetry and one party has some sort of legal or financial advantage that has been utilized to prevent the other smaller and weaker party from obtaining information pertinent to the deal. You MIGHT have more of a case if the question of straightness was actually asked and you can prove that he purposefully changed the subject/evaded the question and then told some half truths that were misleading.
 
Hi Mashokist,

Most of my experience is with eBay and being very careful about disclosing accurate descriptions and avoiding situations like this. It looks like you went into great detail about "two microscopic spots" and "not 100% on the weight" and "nick". Just wondering why you left out the details about the taper roll etc which seem to be the most relevant to a succesful transaction.

On the other hand If I buy it and resell it before I get, it I would suck it up and stick with the deal. He should have returned it. Sorry to say looks bad for both of you in the end.:mad:

Hope this helps!
 
VonRhett said:
I'm must be missing something.

You made 2 deals:
1. Scruggs SP + $400.00 cash for your Scruggs w/ 2 shafts
2. You agreed on a price for a future transaction - $200.00 for a shaft

You both agreed to #1 and each did your part so that was a completed deal.

Later he decided to sell what was 100% HIS Scruggs and you don't like that because he had to back out of Deal #2 due to a change in his situation?

Deal #2 has no impact whatsoever on Deal #1.

He bought the Scruggs from you and then sold it.

All this crap about accurate description? Well, it looks like neither party can point fingers there. You know, glass houses and all.

-von
Click to expand...

the deal was $400 up front, the scruggs and $200 at vf for the last scruggs. 1 deal with 3 parts.

the taper wobbles he knew about, we talked on the phone, but you are all 100% correct that i should have put them in the posting, no questions.

thank you all for reading this and the feedback, i hope some ppl learned something from this, i did.

best to all.
Andrew
 
jcommie said:
I'd love to see you nail a non-corporate individual for fraud based on "guilt by omission". In most cases, unless it's a large corporation or business vs. uninformed consumer, the judge will take one look at your case and throw it out. The reliance argument only works if there is significant information asymmetry and one party has some sort of legal or financial advantage that has been utilized to prevent the other smaller and weaker party from obtaining information pertinent to the deal. You MIGHT have more of a case if the question of straightness was actually asked and you can prove that he purposefully changed the subject/evaded the question and then told some half truths that were misleading.
Click to expand...


have it your way......it's those thinking with your "asymmetry" that's get many into 'issues' here.......let's get real...we're talking cues and if you don't state the cue has any straightness issues when posting it for sale then any buyer will and should assume that the cue is in it's basic state - straight....doing otherwise is misleading and is why i don't sell or buy anything here from anyone i don't know first hand...........i've never had an issue EVER, and never will because of it...........
 
mashokist said:
Hello all,

A little while ago I had a Scruggs cue up for sale

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=122665

that I worked a deal out with Bandit-sTf-. We agreed on a some what strange trade deal, but it went like this. He sent me $400 up front with a Scruggs sneaky that had an original shaft and a 314 matched that he said was in 'excellent condition' and for that he would get the butt of the cue with 2 of the 3 shafts, the third shaft would be purchased from me at VF for $200.

I didn't think anything of it until I found out from a friend the other day that Bandit was selling the cue on here with 2 of the shafts:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=131854
I gave Bandit the benifit of the doubt and sent him a message asking if he would still honor his end of the deal and this is what he said:

"Sorry man i cant now. I got in a real bind this month with things at home and needed some money bad. The guy i sold the cue to will probally buy the shaft from you. ****** is the guy who bought it so you can message him and see. I am sorry

Bandit"

upon looking at his posting of the cue I realized that he did a poor job of listing it and out right lied about the condition, the shafts never rolled straight, there is a taper wobble on both the shafts he has. there are some other things that the person buying it might like to know, now I don't know if they had conversations about the cue other than what was posted there, but I think that it is shady, and messed up that I wont get my money for the deal we made.

So all in all, I was foolish for letting a deal linger that long, but that dosen't excuse the other things that went on with this deal, so all i can say is if you deal with Bandit-sTf- be careful i got burned at both ends of this deal.
Click to expand...
There is an old saying in the sales profession. It is: "You can't make money off of be backers."
Something is really not sold until you get the money.
I would say in cue sales over 50% of "I will be back", be backers never come back. It is just part of life in sales. Don't sweat it, just learn to get a complete sale all at once or be prepared to not move the rest of the product to that person.
People often say they will be back on the sincere hope that all will go as planned and it rarely does. So they are not trying to be dishonest, they are usually just being overly hopeful at the moment. And often "I will be back" can also mean "they will be back as long as they don't find a better deal before then".
 
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