Everywhere you read and hear about Minnesota Fats (who was really New York Fats), it says that the guy was just a "B" player. I used to think the same thing, I read about him in one of Robert Byrne's books, and I've read plenty of stories about him. I had a talk with one of my friends, who is an old timer. He knew the Fat Man very well. He told me that the guy was actually a magnificent player, but he had a real dirty mouth. He said that the reason why the myth got passed on that Fats didn't play very good was because in fact, many people hated him. He bad mouthed so many people a lie was created after his death to dishonor him. Has anyone here actually seen him play when he was alive? Please share your stories, etc.
A Myth About Minnesota Fats
- Thread starter LastTwo
- Start date
I not only knew Walter Wanderone or Fat's as you referred to him , I played him in 1967 at Montogomery Wards in Fort Worth Texas in an exhibition while he was promoting a new (NON Slate)afordable pool table for Brunswick. I played him a race to seven in Six Ball and he screamed and griped that the game wasn't pool and I beat him 7 to 0. The local news station covvered the event becasue the film the huslter had such popularity and my Dad and Uttley Puckett, who had taken me down ther to try and challenge fats were grinning ear to ear when I won. It's my opinion that Fats was a terrific gambler and set up man with very modest billiards talent,but his showmanship and ability to attract interest in pool is something in the high tech media age, the sport could use more of. After I beat him he remarked 'Kid come back here and I'll give you a ball and the breaks in one pocket for some real cash, Uttley stepped up and said I'll take that Fatty and Fats said , I was talking to the kid . For a seventeen year old it was a night to remember,Take care , The DuckLastTwo said:
fast larry
Banned
jjinfla said:
Oh you just can't wait till I wade in here can you? Ask Richie about Fatty dudes? I played Gleason in West Palm, I had no problem with him. I can assure you he could not take Fatty in a thousand years. Finally one day I finally beat the guy and I was jubliant, jumping all over the joint. I was going, I beat the man. He then said kid, heres the deal, dis was he haw, it meant nothing to me. If we wuz playing for the cash, the outcome would have been a lot different. If you doubt that, the bank is up on the corner, go draw out your life savings and come play me for it.
He said you will go out tomorrow and tell everyone you know you beat Chicago Fats and not one person will believe you. Even if you lost badly to me you would go out and tell them the same thing and again none of them would believe you. So you see, to me, it does not matter if I beat you or lose to you because either way you are telling everyone you beat me anyway.
The comments about him being foul mouthed, not true. He did not smoke, drink or curse. He was a very nice man. He was very polite to people. Sam Sneed was a lot like Fatty, totally uneducated and un cooth, but both were polite and everyone loved both of them. Education has nothing to do with this. Fatty could flat ass play in the 30's, 40's and 50's, I saw it. Too many people saw him as a very old man in the l980's on TV and the guy then could not run 3 friggen balls, it was just awful. His skill level is far beyond what most rate him at today. Those rating him never saw him play banks, one pocket or even 3-cushion in his prime. The guy gets a very bad rap he does not deserve today. He did beat Mosconi on TV, I do have that tape for sale for those of you who say he cannot play. That was 7 ball at Vegas, prime time TV.
Duck said:
First, his name was not Walter, it was Rudolph Wanderone. He hated 9 ball 8 ball 6 ball and any other game that was not One Pocket, which he did excel at. His games, other than One Pocket, he played at an APA skill level 7, maybe a bit better but not much. My good friend and constant Johnston City participant Sonny Springer can attest to this being true. Sonny played, New York fats, Double and sometimes Tripple Smart Fats, as he was known before the Hustler movie, many times. Sonny won his share but Fats was a top One Pocket and Banks player. Never the best at either, with Ronnie Allen and Eddie Taylor around but the Fat man could play those two games well.
As far as Fatty's foul mouth, you are talking about Willie Mosconi not Fatty. Willie had the most foul mouth of any player of that era. That's not the reason the other players didn't like Willie though, they hated him because they couldn't beat him.
T
THE SILENCER
Guest
my favorite player back then was "cowboy" jimmy moore. man oh man what style! he was the pure essence of what pool was like in the 40's and 50's, before 9-ball was "thee" game. jimmy moore had that straight pool style charimsma, charm, dancer, light on the feet, rythmic happy, go about his business way. all of his shots were 3 inches, with a 7 degree angle! made for a 4 year old position!! a short 3 inch bridge was used with stop shots being the main course. oddly enough, he never won a tournament! he has to be the greatest player in history who never won a tournament! he probally came in second 200 times! i believe he's still alive and possibly in his late 80's.
fast larry
Banned
hemicudas said:
I would like to add my comments to this sir, this is the most accurate statement on this subject I have seen to date. It is fair, it is true. Thanks for telling it like it was, nice job.
Meeting Fats
I was visiting my Son in Nashville, about 14 years ago. It was my last night in town, a Sunday. My Son was attending College at the time, and had a test Mon. morning, and needed to study some. SO, we didn't have anything to do. I asked the Wife what she would like to do.... She said I want you to go down and meet Fats. (Hell of a Woman she is!!!)
We heard he was living at the Hermitage Hotel, in downtown Nashville. They let him live, (food INCLUDED!) For free, for P.R. reasons. We didn't have anything else to do, I'll try it!! We went down there, parked and went in. First thing I see, is a Brunswick sitiin' right there in the lobby! (Guess who's?) No Fats in sight, though..... We sit down and order a couple drinks, and casually ask the Waitress...."Is Fats around?" She replied, "Oh Hell, you never know...he's in and out all the time."
We sit there, drink our drinks....then another....and order 1 more... Door opens up, and Fats walks in!! He's heading for the back, Kitchen I assume. I think to myself....this is it, now or never. I took and angle, and cut him off just before he went thru the door. Called him....he stopped. I asked "may I buy you a drink?" he said "Son, I don't drink...never have. He then asked "Where are you sitiing" I pointed to the table with the Wife sitting at it. He said "I'll be over in a few minutes." I thinking SURE....he will.
Well, 5 minutes goes past....10 minutes.....THEN, I look up, and here he comes..SURE ENOUGH, with a plate of food! he pulls out a chair, and sits DOWN. Here I AM, with the FAT MAN!! Pinch me..........
It didn't take long for him to get started!! He was dressed in a 3 piece suit, looking SHARP! Says he one hell of a dancer! He's been out dancin' all evening, and came back to eat. Then go back, to dancing.
I start asking questions, KNOWING I'm going to hear a LOT of B.S.!! I asked, WHO was really the best?? (poked the Wife, knowing I'd get him going!) AND before I knew it, he unbuttoned his jacket and reached for the inside pocket of the jacket. Inside there he carried a 'folder'. It literally had his life story in it. He opened it up, and pulled out a old newpaper clipping. Fats said "Here is when I beat Mosconi in Chicago in 33'" and all sorts of stuff. He pulls out this old b/w picture of a little boy in knickers and says " this is me, when I was 3 yrs old" Just gettin' ready to go out on my OWN!! I thought i was gonna DIE!! AT 3 yrs old!! Next picture he was older...he says... "this is when I was 10, when I was 10...it took 3 years to go round' the world. I got BACK, when I was 13. MAN. this guy was a 'natural'. He could sure talk!!!
My Wife was in the Jewelery bus. at the time, and noticed Fat's rings. One of them, had a green stone in it. She thought she 'knew' what it was, and asked Fat's. YEP, a big ol' Green Diamond!! For those of you that don't know, it is one of, if not the rarest color Diamond. VERY expensive! Fats told us it was gift from the Sultan Of Brunei. For teaching him how to play pool!! He flew Fats over, and he had the 'run of the Palace' while he was here. Along with the 'harem'. WHATEVER he wanted....bar NOTHING.
Fats married a Local waitress, not long after I met him. I think she was 38 or 39. Fat's had a 'thing' about his age, from what I understand. I asked him how old he was, he wouldn't say. I also asked him to 'hit a few' he declined, saying he hardly ever played anymore. (Later found out that was false!)
I also asked him for an autograph. He told me he NEVER signed autographs, and whipped out a card holder. He took one out, and handed it to me. It read "I've been HUSTLED by Minnesota Fats" I still have it. Afer he left, I asked the waitress, if he ever plays? She said "Last week, a guy came in from California and wanted to play him. He told him 'no'. Then she said the guy pulled off his Rolex, and put it on the table. And told Fats "Play me..if you win, You keep the watch. If I win, I keep it. Fat's won the flip, ran OUT, picked the watch up and left. He just needed an 'incentive' to play, thats all!!
2 years after meeting him, I read he died. The paper said he was 'thought' to be 82.
I'll tell you, Fats was larger than LIFE. He was an amazing man, who took the game to new heights. As a kid, used to love Wide World Of Sports, especially when Fat's and Willie were going at it! Remember those days? Just listening to the Fat man, was a treat. I think I could honestly say, I'd rather met him than any celebrity alive, or dead. It was real treat, something I'll never forget....EVER.
Fat's epitaph reads.....
"Rack em' up St. Peter, I beat EVERYBODY on EARTH!"
Rick S.
I was visiting my Son in Nashville, about 14 years ago. It was my last night in town, a Sunday. My Son was attending College at the time, and had a test Mon. morning, and needed to study some. SO, we didn't have anything to do. I asked the Wife what she would like to do.... She said I want you to go down and meet Fats. (Hell of a Woman she is!!!)
We heard he was living at the Hermitage Hotel, in downtown Nashville. They let him live, (food INCLUDED!) For free, for P.R. reasons. We didn't have anything else to do, I'll try it!! We went down there, parked and went in. First thing I see, is a Brunswick sitiin' right there in the lobby! (Guess who's?) No Fats in sight, though..... We sit down and order a couple drinks, and casually ask the Waitress...."Is Fats around?" She replied, "Oh Hell, you never know...he's in and out all the time."
We sit there, drink our drinks....then another....and order 1 more... Door opens up, and Fats walks in!! He's heading for the back, Kitchen I assume. I think to myself....this is it, now or never. I took and angle, and cut him off just before he went thru the door. Called him....he stopped. I asked "may I buy you a drink?" he said "Son, I don't drink...never have. He then asked "Where are you sitiing" I pointed to the table with the Wife sitting at it. He said "I'll be over in a few minutes." I thinking SURE....he will.
Well, 5 minutes goes past....10 minutes.....THEN, I look up, and here he comes..SURE ENOUGH, with a plate of food! he pulls out a chair, and sits DOWN. Here I AM, with the FAT MAN!! Pinch me..........
It didn't take long for him to get started!! He was dressed in a 3 piece suit, looking SHARP! Says he one hell of a dancer! He's been out dancin' all evening, and came back to eat. Then go back, to dancing.
I start asking questions, KNOWING I'm going to hear a LOT of B.S.!! I asked, WHO was really the best?? (poked the Wife, knowing I'd get him going!) AND before I knew it, he unbuttoned his jacket and reached for the inside pocket of the jacket. Inside there he carried a 'folder'. It literally had his life story in it. He opened it up, and pulled out a old newpaper clipping. Fats said "Here is when I beat Mosconi in Chicago in 33'" and all sorts of stuff. He pulls out this old b/w picture of a little boy in knickers and says " this is me, when I was 3 yrs old" Just gettin' ready to go out on my OWN!! I thought i was gonna DIE!! AT 3 yrs old!! Next picture he was older...he says... "this is when I was 10, when I was 10...it took 3 years to go round' the world. I got BACK, when I was 13. MAN. this guy was a 'natural'. He could sure talk!!!
My Wife was in the Jewelery bus. at the time, and noticed Fat's rings. One of them, had a green stone in it. She thought she 'knew' what it was, and asked Fat's. YEP, a big ol' Green Diamond!! For those of you that don't know, it is one of, if not the rarest color Diamond. VERY expensive! Fats told us it was gift from the Sultan Of Brunei. For teaching him how to play pool!! He flew Fats over, and he had the 'run of the Palace' while he was here. Along with the 'harem'. WHATEVER he wanted....bar NOTHING.
Fats married a Local waitress, not long after I met him. I think she was 38 or 39. Fat's had a 'thing' about his age, from what I understand. I asked him how old he was, he wouldn't say. I also asked him to 'hit a few' he declined, saying he hardly ever played anymore. (Later found out that was false!)
I also asked him for an autograph. He told me he NEVER signed autographs, and whipped out a card holder. He took one out, and handed it to me. It read "I've been HUSTLED by Minnesota Fats" I still have it. Afer he left, I asked the waitress, if he ever plays? She said "Last week, a guy came in from California and wanted to play him. He told him 'no'. Then she said the guy pulled off his Rolex, and put it on the table. And told Fats "Play me..if you win, You keep the watch. If I win, I keep it. Fat's won the flip, ran OUT, picked the watch up and left. He just needed an 'incentive' to play, thats all!!
2 years after meeting him, I read he died. The paper said he was 'thought' to be 82.
I'll tell you, Fats was larger than LIFE. He was an amazing man, who took the game to new heights. As a kid, used to love Wide World Of Sports, especially when Fat's and Willie were going at it! Remember those days? Just listening to the Fat man, was a treat. I think I could honestly say, I'd rather met him than any celebrity alive, or dead. It was real treat, something I'll never forget....EVER.
Fat's epitaph reads.....
"Rack em' up St. Peter, I beat EVERYBODY on EARTH!"
Rick S.
Rick S. said:
Man you have quite a story. Its nice to have moments like those pop up.
I met him while he was on a tour around the south. He was old then and
traveled with a younger lady named Ginger I believe. He was
very colorful and talked the talk better than anyone I have ever been around.
Even at his age then I was always glad that I got to see him.
I could care less how good he was back in the day.
frankncali
Your right!
He was something to see! You must have seen him around the same time I did. He must have sat with us for 1 1/2 hrs. It really made my trip. He took his B.S. around the World, and back. Not too bad a life!! He took full advantage of his mouth. One SMART old fella'................
Rick S.
frankncali said:
He was something to see! You must have seen him around the same time I did. He must have sat with us for 1 1/2 hrs. It really made my trip. He took his B.S. around the World, and back. Not too bad a life!! He took full advantage of his mouth. One SMART old fella'................
Rick S.
I've heard stories both ways for a long time. I don't care, he was a very smart person either way. If he played so bad, seems he did pretty good matching up. If he could play, he did a great job making people believe he couldn't. He's still the greatest talker who ever lived. If he were here today i'd stake him talking against anyone, and they got the seven. Sam
satman said:
Sam, If you were incorrect Fatty would not be in the Hall Of Fame. That is exactly why he is, because of his mouth. He was the greatest talker I ever saw but according to Fatty himself he was not the greatest of all time. Fatty gave that credit to Titanic Thompson. Fatty use to laud the greatest hustler ever, as Fatty called him, for his talking ability. If you get the chance, check out the Unsinkable Titanic Thompson or Titanic Thompson Stroke Of Genius. Greatest hustles I have ever seen.
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