A "new way" to grip the cue

[Straightpool_99]

I always was taught to grip the cue as if you were about to smack someone over the head with it. It could be because pool halls used to be full of shady characters and you never know what might go down, or it could have been because it works. I'm still undecided ;-)

My grip is firm, always has been. I can't control the cue with a fingertip type grip and can't control the white. It is pressed firmly into the webbing between thumb and index finger. I recently got a nugget of advice from a top amateur snooker player. He noticed that my index finger was bent slightly at the middle knuckle making my fingertip go in towards my middle finger. Broken this finger twice and I'm guessing that's the cause.. Anyway, spotted that on power strokes I had a tendency to not cue as straight as I'd like and mentioned about releasing the index finger from the cue. He said to try resting the index fingertip against the thumb and off the cue a little. This forced me to grip with the other 3 fingers and as I pull back the 3 fingers release and the index finger get comes into contact with the cue giving it support... Due to my crooked finger. What a nugget this turned out to be. I'm cueing better than ever and I never thought I'd say that.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is people are made differently. The grip is one of the most important parts of a players fundamentals and if you get it right can see almost instantl improvement. So, if your game isn't up to your standards then it's likely the grip causing your issues. Bad thing is no one's hands and wrists work like yours so you have to figure it out on your own.

Agree about the grip being an individual thing...For me getting the cue up into the hand made me twist and turn the cue and the wrist. My hand is maybe unusual in shape? I do know that I have small palms and long fingers. If your hand is more square with shorter fingers, then my grip probably won't work for you, is my guess. The "club" grip is what is usually being taught in snooker, and probably for good reasons. You have a lot of control over the cue, because a large area of the hand/fingers are in contact with it. I feel that with the firm fingertip grip, I am sacrificing very little feel and control, while avoiding twisting etc. In fact I feel that with the fingertips I have better control over the cue, since they are so sensitive. It is very difficult to get this much feel in the fingertips with a traditional grip.

 

[Pidge]

Control can be taught and learned, the twisting of the wrist when using a certain grip... Well, that's how you were made and nothing can be done about that. That's why I tell everyone I've helped to pick a grip that you can cue in a straight line with. If it feels unnatural then so be it, eventually it will become second nature.

Congrats on finding your own grip and I hope it serves you well

 

[Zphix]

No need to be ashamed. We all know why your wrist is limp.

Those long, lonely nights are rough.

 

[gregcantrall]

Ok. Remember, I did warn you, lol. It was surprisingly awkward and difficult to get a good picture of your own hand holding a cue. My hand may look a bit more strained on the picture than it would be during play, for that reason. Also this is a bridge stick, not my cue.

This huge image has made this thread unreadable for me. Downsize the image please.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

My thumb rests on the front of the index finger. The cue lies on all 4 finger tips. There is a gap between the cue and the "webbing" between the index finger and the thumb. The finger tips have quite a bit of pressure which pushes the cue up and slightly outward (away from the thumb, and into the middle of the index finger). All the felt pressure is on the fingertips. The middle of the index finger is "passive". I even tried "death gripping" this way, and the results were equally good. The first and middle part of the index finger and thumb are "inert" in that apart from the tip of the index finger they don't apply much pressure to the cue in the sideways direction, they are merely supporting and guiding it. Once you "wedge" the cue up into the hand you are IMO inviting a lot of twisting from the hand/wrist. When you do my grip correctly, you can insert a finger from the other hand between the webbing and the cue, barely.

It sounds like your thumb isn't involved in gripping the cue, and your fingers don't press it against your palm, but against themselves below the palm, kind of "cradling" it firmly. Is that right?

pj
chgo

 

[Straightpool_99]

It sounds like your thumb isn't involved in gripping the cue, and your fingers don't press it against your palm, but against themselves below the palm, kind of "cradling" it firmly. Is that right?

pj
chgo

Pretty much. The thumb involvement is very, very slight. Just guiding the cue, but very little pressure.

 

[Straightpool_99]

This huge image has made this thread unreadable for me. Downsize the image please.

.............................
fine

 

[Straightpool_99]

Those long, lonely nights are rough.

Lol at Skeletor, the gayest supervillain of all time. One of my friends does a "nyah" in the Skeletor voice, and it's still hillarious after all these years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zloWEvRDhgI

 

[Skippy27]

My grip is firm, always has been. I can't control the cue with a fingertip type grip and can't control the white.

Grip is certainly a personal thing as you have to feel comfortable with it, but your grip (loose or firm) does not contribute to the control (spin/speed) of the white beyond you hitting it accurately.

Tight grips are going to introduce other tight muscles in your stroke (even up to your shoulder) which are going to direct the cue differently at impact. You can certainly adjust to this over time but will still have issues with consistency and hitting the cue ball even a millimeter off can make a big difference. This is one of the biggest reason we have less accuracy when hitting hard as you have a tendency to grip and tighten up when doing it.

Loose grips are not ever going to introduce other tight muscles into the stroke thus the cue is always going to be directed the same in your hand.

To test this just do some stroking with no stick and a loose hand, then make a fist while stroking. I would be willing to bet you will feel it in your triceps and shoulder while your grip is tight thus you have introduced other unnecessary muscles into the stroke and potential problems.

 

[ceebee]

I use the webbing of the index finger & the thumb as the top part of my grip matched with the cupped middle finger to allow the cue to move in my hand & also tone down any elbow drop. There is some gap between the webbing of my thumb & my index finger & the cue.

Works for me..

 

[fan-tum]

Very tough to get it to show in pictures. Also, I bite my fingernails, so they look like shit. I'm kind of embarrased about it actually. I'm a nervous type, lol.

I think the key to understanding the grip is the gap between the cue and the webbing and the pressure on the fingertips. If you can achieve those two things I think you are probably doing it right. The hand should look sort of "elongated" compared to a tennis racket grip, which I believe is what CJ teaches.

Wear a disposable glove, lol.

 

[dardusm]

Grip is certainly a personal thing as you have to feel comfortable with it, but your grip (loose or firm) does not contribute to the control (spin/speed) of the white beyond you hitting it accurately.

Tight grips are going to introduce other tight muscles in your stroke (even up to your shoulder) which are going to direct the cue differently at impact. You can certainly adjust to this over time but will still have issues with consistency and hitting the cue ball even a millimeter off can make a big difference. This is one of the biggest reason we have less accuracy when hitting hard as you have a tendency to grip and tighten up when doing it.

Loose grips are not ever going to introduce other tight muscles into the stroke thus the cue is always going to be directed the same in your hand.

To test this just do some stroking with no stick and a loose hand, then make a fist while stroking. I would be willing to bet you will feel it in your triceps and shoulder while your grip is tight thus you have introduced other unnecessary muscles into the stroke and potential problems.

Nice analysis, when I took lessons from an instructor one of the issues he noticed was unintended English when drawing the cue ball. The culprit was a tight grip that strayed my stroke offline ever so slightly. You can diagnose this problem by looking at your backhand after stroking, are your knuckles pointed upwards? Is there air between your palm and and the cue? If not, you probably gripped the cue too tight potentially causing issues with a straight stroke.

 

[MalibuMike]

I keep a short stroke with my thumb pointing down.

My stroke is now medium-long. It used to be extremely long, so long that it became a problem I had to work hard to get rid of. Now because of the grip, the stroke is somewhat more limited, but not in any way short. I do vary the stroke length a bit. I never go extremely short, though. I would if I could, but there is no way for me to do it without jerking the stroke and losing feel. I'm quite happy with where I'm at now.

Pointing my thumb down somehow helps align my elbow, don't know how.
Ron Rosas taught me an extreemly compact stroke with almost no follow through, that has help my game go to a whole other level.

 

[Pidge]

Grip is certainly a personal thing as you have to feel comfortable with it, but your grip (loose or firm) does not contribute to the control (spin/speed) of the white beyond you hitting it accurately.

Tight grips are going to introduce other tight muscles in your stroke (even up to your shoulder) which are going to direct the cue differently at impact. You can certainly adjust to this over time but will still have issues with consistency and hitting the cue ball even a millimeter off can make a big difference. This is one of the biggest reason we have less accuracy when hitting hard as you have a tendency to grip and tighten up when doing it.

Loose grips are not ever going to introduce other tight muscles into the stroke thus the cue is always going to be directed the same in your hand.

To test this just do some stroking with no stick and a loose hand, then make a fist while stroking. I would be willing to bet you will feel it in your triceps and shoulder while your grip is tight thus you have introduced other unnecessary muscles into the stroke and potential problems.

I have to respectfully disagree with your comment about your grip not having an influence on the control of the white. A player like me, for example really struggles, and I mean REALLY struggles to control the speed of the cue with a loose grip fingertip type grip. Control of the white is a direct result of where you hit the white, and at what speed you hit it. So, for me at least, if I can't control the cue I cut control the white.

I'm in the minority I feel with a firmer grip. But there is no firm gang vs loose gang. Both will have the same benefits to different people.

On a side note... My grip is not tight, it is fairly relaxed. But I consider it firm because I have more of the hand in contact with the cue compared to most. I feel I get the most amount of control and feedback on shots this way.

 

[RonRosas]

My Short Stroke ~ "Mexican" Ron Rosas

Pointing my thumb down somehow helps align my elbow, don't know how.
Ron Rosas taught me an extreemly compact stroke with almost no follow through, that has help my game go to a whole other level.

I teach cue stick control, I see all these guys with these rocking strokes and huge follow throughs! they do nothing for your shot or shape, the tip stays on th cb no longer, just more room for error, yes keep it short, and that goes for the back stroke as well. especially if you want a suft touch shot, don't load up your back stoke. I tell my student on each shot, ok this one takes a stun shot but only 2 inches back and follow through one inch, you can learn to stop the cue with out a jerking motion by lifting the butt up toward your hand, some shotes are 3 inches back and 3 through it all depends on what you want the cue ball to do. but you can only control the cue stick, that where your focus should be, and not on results. Nip strokes, kill and spin strokes all come from knowing how to manipulate the cue stick.
"mexican' Ron Rosas

 

[ENGLISH!]

Very tough to get it to show in pictures. Also, I bite my fingernails, so they look like shit. I'm kind of embarrased about it actually. I'm a nervous type, lol.

I think the key to understanding the grip is the gap between the cue and the webbing and the pressure on the fingertips. If you can achieve those two things I think you are probably doing it right. The hand should look sort of "elongated" compared to a tennis racket grip, which I believe is what CJ teaches.

I use to & still sometimes do bite my fingernails. I've found that filing them very smooth & rather short stops any biting unless I do some kind of work where something gets on the skin right under the nail, then I will go to biting but catch myself. Then I clean them really good & file them.

As to the grip, Yeah the one I went to may not be exactly like yours, but the cue is very much in the finger tips or rather the last tip section & away from the hand with the fingers spread apart, elongated on the cue. That is the grip that I use to put a downward pressure on my bridge hand.

I find that when using english with this connection the overall effect is less than with my thumb & index finger 'axle rod grip'.

I know what some of the science guys say about that but I also know what I sense & I also asked one of the best players in the area about it & he does not change grip connection but does change grip pressure for different shots.

As a player, I don't think one has to definitively KNOW the science & what specifically causes any difference. I think as a player one needs to know what one can DO to cause the difference.

If you are married, use your wife's hands for the pics.

Best 2 Ya.

 

[jb1911]

Anyone that says follow through is not important doesn't know what they're talking about. Follow through is essential in golf, baseball, tennis and billiards. Any game with a stick or racket.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I have to respectfully disagree with your comment about your grip not having an influence on the control of the white. A player like me, for example really struggles, and I mean REALLY struggles to control the speed of the cue with a loose grip fingertip type grip. Control of the white is a direct result of where you hit the white, and at what speed you hit it. So, for me at least, if I can't control the cue I cut control the white.

I'm in the minority I feel with a firmer grip. But there is no firm gang vs loose gang. Both will have the same benefits to different people.

On a side note... My grip is not tight, it is fairly relaxed. But I consider it firm because I have more of the hand in contact with the cue compared to most. I feel I get the most amount of control and feedback on shots this way.

CJ advocated a firm connection to the cue WHEN he WAS here.

I have played for more than 40 years with a loose connection to the cue with really it only 'pinched' by the first joints near the hand of my thumb & index finger as though a rod runs through the cue so it can 'swivel' & stay 'level' as the forearm & hand change angles during the stroke.

When I was experimenting with TOI my grip evolved subconsciously to a more firm connection & more in all of my fingers while rotating more on top of the cue. Why? I don't really know but it did & I became comfortable with it.

I do not want to argue with the science guys but I have found that when using english I get better action with a lose connection to the cue but when I use a firm connection the action is not as good or as much or what ever but there seems to be more control of the CB if that makes any sense.

CJ's philosophy it that one should be able to control the cue with the back hand to the point of being able to lift the tip into the air & be able to write one's name in script.

I could never do that with my 2 point axle rod type connection.

I can play rather well with either but they lend themselves to different types of strokes. The firm connection restricts my back stroke to the point I use more arm movement than with my loose connection that allows the cue to move more with less arm movement. The loose connection has more wrist in it while the firm connection more 'solid'.

I know we have not always seen eye to eye but I tend to agree with you here as I have on other subjects.

Sorry for taking so many words to just say that.

 

[Zphix]

I prefer a loose fingertip grip because the fingertips are more sensitive than the palms of your hands. The fingertips have more sensory receptors than the palm. If you take two pins, and press the two pinheads into your fingertips you'll be able to detect the two individual pinheads - but you cannot do this same thing with your palms.

Anyway, whenever I've shot with a firmer grip; it throws everything off from my straight stroke to keeping my cue level during the shot and I cannot feel a thing when stroking. Plus, CB control seems to be more arm speed than cue speed at that point.

When you keep a loose grip, you're letting the weight of the cue do the work and that creates consistency in your speed control and gives you a reference point for future shots. If you're using a firm grip your speed control consistency then becomes based on your ability to move your arm at the same speed on every shot instead of letting a consistent cue weight dictate your base speed.

Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: If a firm grip works for you then keep it. I've seen a few players who have short backswings, and follow-throughs on every shot due to their "grip" and they are more accurate (on average) but cannot do as much with the CB. However, many players I know who use a loose grip are just as accurate (due to experience) and they get more out of the CB.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I prefer a loose fingertip grip because the fingertips are more sensitive than the palms of your hands. The fingertips have more sensory receptors than the palm. If you take two pins, and press the two pinheads into your fingertips you'll be able to detect the two individual pinheads - but you cannot do this same thing with your palms.

Anyway, whenever I've shot with a firmer grip; it throws everything off from my straight stroke to keeping my cue level during the shot and I cannot feel a thing when stroking. Plus, CB control seems to be more arm speed than cue speed at that point.

When you keep a loose grip, you're letting the weight of the cue do the work and that creates consistency in your speed control and gives you a reference point for future shots. If you're using a firm grip your speed control consistency then becomes based on your ability to move your arm at the same speed on every shot instead of letting a consistent cue weight dictate your base speed.

Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: If a firm grip works for you then keep it. I've seen a few players who have short backswings, and follow-throughs on every shot due to their "grip" and they are more accurate (on average) but cannot do as much with the CB. However, many players I know who use a loose grip are just as accurate (due to experience) and they get more out of the CB.

Why is the 'edit' only showing when the quote button is clicked.