Makes sense. Thanks for your commentary.
A question about proper stance
- Thread starter Roscue
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Makes sense. Thanks for your commentary.
I think it's a really good idea that you decided to give yourself some time to heal.
Good question about balance. No. Being in balance means that you can lift your bridge hand off the table a couple of inches and not feel that you may fall forward --- because it's still in the same basic position, just slightly higher. The key is in where your body parts are located in relation to your center of gravity. Your bridge hand is there to guide your cue, not to hold you up. That's where you got into trouble with your shoulder.
Weight evenly distributed between both legs works when we stand erect. Once we start to bend and stretch, our center of gravity shifts and things change.
Here's what happens when a pool player (or any athlete) doesn't take stance and balance seriously, or simply doesn't realize it's importance: They either get injured or they get lucky.
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Hi Roscoe,
As to the shoulder, I 'tweaked' mine a long time ago while batting opposite handed. I thought it was just a tweak but it wound up being an injury that did take time to heal up.
As to the stance, I would suggest listening to Ms. Crimi. Yes there are many many variations on stance as we are all individuals & a one size fits all cookie cutter approach does not make sense. BUT... there are some basics that are true.
To say that the stance does not make much difference makes no sense to me as it is the foundation from which our stroke is based. It is almost like saying stand how ever you want when trying to hit a golf ball 250 yards but make it land in a 40 yard wide fairway. Try that & see how successful you'd be in hitting that 40 yard wide fairway with any consistency.
You should want balance & alignment so that YOUR body allows YOU to stroke straight with no off line influences from the alignment of the stance.
I think Earl thinks that the bridge is the most important aspect. That's why he has worked with adding weights to the left arm. Some place it very lightly on the table while others 'grab' & dig into the cloth.
Perhaps Fran can give us some insight to Earl's thoughts if she is familiar with them.
In any case, I'd listen to what she says as she has pro player insights, since she was a Professional Player before she became a Master Instructor.
Best of Luck with the shoulder & finding YOUR solution.
Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick
As to the shoulder, I 'tweaked' mine a long time ago while batting opposite handed. I thought it was just a tweak but it wound up being an injury that did take time to heal up.
As to the stance, I would suggest listening to Ms. Crimi. Yes there are many many variations on stance as we are all individuals & a one size fits all cookie cutter approach does not make sense. BUT... there are some basics that are true.
To say that the stance does not make much difference makes no sense to me as it is the foundation from which our stroke is based. It is almost like saying stand how ever you want when trying to hit a golf ball 250 yards but make it land in a 40 yard wide fairway. Try that & see how successful you'd be in hitting that 40 yard wide fairway with any consistency.
You should want balance & alignment so that YOUR body allows YOU to stroke straight with no off line influences from the alignment of the stance.
I think Earl thinks that the bridge is the most important aspect. That's why he has worked with adding weights to the left arm. Some place it very lightly on the table while others 'grab' & dig into the cloth.
Perhaps Fran can give us some insight to Earl's thoughts if she is familiar with them.
In any case, I'd listen to what she says as she has pro player insights, since she was a Professional Player before she became a Master Instructor.
Best of Luck with the shoulder & finding YOUR solution.
Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick
Rick, I've had a conversation with Earl regarding the weights. I told him that I don't think he needs them but he seems to feel he does. I listened to his reasoning, and I still don't agree. I can't share his position with anyone because I don't have his permission to share it but regardless, I think you can have a stable bridge without weights or without leaning on it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thanks, Fran.
I agree with you, as I don't have any weights on my arm.
I think it's important to be in a position in which one's body is not putting any influence on the bridge hand as the stroke is made. Hence, it stays stable & still.
Stance is important as to what effect it can put on the upper body. At least IMO.
There are ways in golf & baseball to increase & decrease torque & also to change the swing path.
I think the goal in a pool stance is to find the one that does not want to influence the stroking line of the cue.
CJ Wiley started to speak about 'aiming' with his left foot. I understand what he meant even though I never refined it to a point of 'aiming'.
I just know when I've gotten down on a shot & could feel that it was just not right & have had to 'dance' it open sort of like Lee Trevino does for his golf swing.
I'd like to know what Earl's thinking is, but I totally understand why you can not convey that here.
Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick
PS Oh Yeah... Happy Birthday!
Thanks, Fran.
I agree with you, as I don't have any weights on my arm.
I think it's important to be in a position in which one's body is not putting any influence on the bridge hand as the stroke is made. Hence, it stays stable & still.
Stance is important as to what effect it can put on the upper body. At least IMO.
There are ways in golf & baseball to increase & decrease torque & also to change the swing path.
I think the goal in a pool stance is to find the one that does not want to influence the stroking line of the cue.
CJ Wiley started to speak about 'aiming' with his left foot. I understand what he meant even though I never refined it to a point of 'aiming'.
I just know when I've gotten down on a shot & could feel that it was just not right & have had to 'dance' it open sort of like Lee Trevino does for his golf swing.
I'd like to know what Earl's thinking is, but I totally understand why you can not convey that here.
Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick
PS Oh Yeah... Happy Birthday!
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Good to have you back, Rick. I always enjoy diving deeper into these subjects because valuable information/realizations sometimes get discovered or rediscovered.
I remember before correcting my stance to make it more balanced, I was putting a ton of weight on my bridge hand, so much so, that my finger tips would go numb after super long sessions.
After stance corrections, I've never felt more comfortable at the table and my only regret was that I didn't seek out instruction earlier.
Did you see Lee's latest video on stance?
https://youtu.be/XHAl4j5eRBA
I was trying to point out to a newer player I ran into recently that body shape plays a big role in the foundation on which a great stroke is built on. I think Lee has always touched on that as he does in this video.
I finally figured out why the above is true and so important! :grin:
Let's say that you're a right handed player. In that case, with 'front foot' they mean your left foot.
When that foot is pointing toward the object ball, the rest of your body will naturally wants to align in such a way that the cue has enough room to travel in a straight line.. automatically!
So, if any of you guys are facing the problem that the cue touches your hip or your chest during the stroke, I would recommend to apply this little gem as a rule of stance. However, this only works if your RIGHT foot (or at least the heel, direction of where that foot points is less important) is placed on the shotline.
Mystery solved!
I'm not so sure that the answer is as simple as pointing your toe. There's also another very valid theory about securing your stance by pointing both feet slightly outward -- in a slightly duck-toed style. This is beneficial in helping maintain balance and keeping your legs securely planted.
You can turn your body towards or away from your cue by the angle of your legs relative to the line of the shot. For example: start out standing perpendicular to the line of the shot with both legs straight with each other, forming a right angle to the line. Then slowly start to move your left leg forward towards the table as you get down into position. Do you see how it starts to turn your body towards your cue?
Back to the pointed toe --- if your stance is off-line, you will still be off balance and off line regardless of how you point your toes. Yes, your hip position will change slightly, and it may even allow your cue to pass through. But it is just a patch and won't fix your real issue of being out of alignment.
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I'm just going to throw this out.
Sometimes things that are discussed depend on or have more or less of an effect depending on the type of cue motion one is employing.
A full pendulum swing vs a piston or piston J stroke or even a scissors stroke.
In golf the back foot is generally square to the line as that can create torque for power but it can also affect the swing path & length of the back swing.
The same goes for the front foot. If the foot is opened up with the toe pointing more left for a right handed player it allows for a better weight shift to be accepted while staying on balance & make 'falling off the line' less of an issue. It also limits torque in THAT direction which would limit power that can be delivered to the ball.
Just some food for thought.
I know that golf & pool are not the same thing but bio-mechanics do come into play whenever there is motion made by our bodies.
Best Wishes to ALL,
Rick
Sometimes things that are discussed depend on or have more or less of an effect depending on the type of cue motion one is employing.
A full pendulum swing vs a piston or piston J stroke or even a scissors stroke.
In golf the back foot is generally square to the line as that can create torque for power but it can also affect the swing path & length of the back swing.
The same goes for the front foot. If the foot is opened up with the toe pointing more left for a right handed player it allows for a better weight shift to be accepted while staying on balance & make 'falling off the line' less of an issue. It also limits torque in THAT direction which would limit power that can be delivered to the ball.
Just some food for thought.
I know that golf & pool are not the same thing but bio-mechanics do come into play whenever there is motion made by our bodies.
Best Wishes to ALL,
Rick
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Sorry for the late reply. Yes, that theory is valid: I just tried it out at the table.
As far as pointing the toe of the left foot goes: this method assumes that you already placed your right foot in the shotline. In other words, the right leg must be properly aligned first.
Next, when stepping in with the left foot, I make sure that it's pointing to the object ball by slowly turning it (making sure that the heel stays in place). Usually, that means rotating it a few inches to the right. The right foot rotates simultaneously and when it's all set and done, the cue will have enough room to stroke straight. All the time.
It looks like we're trying to say the same with only different explanations, since I also end up standing in, as you described it, "duck-toed style". :smile:
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Just a point of note.
Everyone's feet are not aligned the same. Some have natural out pointing toes while others are straight ahead & yet others are pigeon toed with the toes pointing in.
It was an adage that most good athletes were slightly pigeon toed.
We often speak generally speaking but we are all different & modifications to what is sometimes said is needed to get the desired result.
Best Wishes to All.
Everyone's feet are not aligned the same. Some have natural out pointing toes while others are straight ahead & yet others are pigeon toed with the toes pointing in.
It was an adage that most good athletes were slightly pigeon toed.
We often speak generally speaking but we are all different & modifications to what is sometimes said is needed to get the desired result.
Best Wishes to All.
I think most people will understand that. Everyone should find what works for them because everyone is different and nobody knows you quite like yourself.
However, for those who haven't found their perfect stance yet, reading this this might be a guideline worth trying. I've read books going into detail about stance in pool and watched many instructional videos about this same subject, but ended up mixing different parts of different instructors to one single style. Maybe one can use my personal insight.. if it makes sense to them.
The shoulder pain in my bridge arm has decreased even more the last few days of playing. I paid VERY close attention not to put any weight on that shoulder/arm by slightly leaning backwards on my right leg (right knee is always locked out). This seems to release most of the pressure on the arm.
By the way, is it normal that the muscles in the bridge arm/shoulder are tensing up when the cue is actually hitting the cueball? The more power I put in a shot, the more this seems to occur..
I was not criticizing. I was merely pointing out that sometimes specifics need to be tweaked for certain individuals.
I don't know about the bridge side tensing up. I've never given that any thought. I don't see a need for that if the cue is moving freely & on line through an even closed bridge. If there is some form of torque being exerted then possibly so, but I would work to avoid that.
I think I may have mentioned that we will brace for the hit. That is just a natural thing to do. How we do that may be an individual thing.
I'm glad the shoulder is better. It seems that you may have found the proper balance. I never liked or wanted my leg locked out. That may have come from playing other sports or discomfort it put on my back. I don't really know.
Best 2 Ya,
Rick
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Thanks for the link. I enjoyed the full series.