Blackjack said:
So....If you walked up and offered to wash his car for the money (that you want). Is that also sinful?
I mean, you are still trying to take the money from his pocket and put it in yours. I just can't agree with you here.
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So....If you walked up and offered to wash his car for the money (that you want). Is that also sinful?
I mean, you are still trying to take the money from his pocket and put it in yours. I just can't agree with you here.
Guys, I am impressed with all the thought that has gone into these posts, and that a bigger picture has been integrated into so many peoples' play. This is an aspect of pool that rarely rears its head in the bars and halls. Usually when I bring up these types of subjects to players, their eyes glaze over.
The good gambler in pool thinks with his mind, not his feelings. He is willing to do the hard preparation to be able to win, whereas his opponents fail in this regard, due to laziness or mystical thinking. The good gambler uses his mind, and skill, to do what the loser won't do: practice playing, practice practicing, and practice thinking. The good gambler has done what is necessary to win money. And one thing necessary for a gambler to win is to surround himself with losers. Is this good or bad for happiness?
Gambling prevents all-mouth, blowhard players from being able to fake reality. They are faced with the penalties of laziness and fakeness, as their pockets empty. The good gambler knows this and exploits it as much as he can. Try to b/s a good gambler and soon you'll wonder where your money went.
What does the "good" gambler get? What is the NET result of gambling on pool? Is nothing produced when time and money get exchanged in a pool game? Is it a negative return on investment?
What is produced by it? Does the winner bring out the best in his opponents? No, a money winner finds the worst in others, so he can win the most. That's what he does, after all, is win the most, right? Does the winner produce anything of value at all? I don't see it, if he does. Maybe his game improves, but why does that matter, except for more money exchanged, but still nothing of value is produced.
So, what does gambling eventually do to one's self-esteem? I say it diminishes it, as the reality is very little or no values are produced. This knowledge of being a non-producer wears on a person after time. Like the loser justifiying his losses by lying to himself about his abilities, the winner justifies his lost time by looking at the money won. But what of the value of the time spent? Couldn't it be better spent on producing something that others want and will pay for? A life wasted on nothing is sad indeed.
No amount of money obtained, when nothing of value is created, can bring the same level of happiness that is acheived through productive accomplishments. That saying in The Color of Money about "money won is twice as sweet as money earned," is the biggest crock of crap I've ever heard...and the sad part is, those words hang on and are even put on t-shirts, etc.
Therefore, if living on gambling money, the "winner" becomes life's loser in reality.
The big winner may just be the biggest loser. If he did not play pool for money, the good gambler might just, in the long run, earn much more money, happiness, and love at a reality based, value-generating activity.
Think about it, anyway.
Jeff Livingston
The good gambler in pool thinks with his mind, not his feelings. He is willing to do the hard preparation to be able to win, whereas his opponents fail in this regard, due to laziness or mystical thinking. The good gambler uses his mind, and skill, to do what the loser won't do: practice playing, practice practicing, and practice thinking. The good gambler has done what is necessary to win money. And one thing necessary for a gambler to win is to surround himself with losers. Is this good or bad for happiness?
Gambling prevents all-mouth, blowhard players from being able to fake reality. They are faced with the penalties of laziness and fakeness, as their pockets empty. The good gambler knows this and exploits it as much as he can. Try to b/s a good gambler and soon you'll wonder where your money went.
What does the "good" gambler get? What is the NET result of gambling on pool? Is nothing produced when time and money get exchanged in a pool game? Is it a negative return on investment?
What is produced by it? Does the winner bring out the best in his opponents? No, a money winner finds the worst in others, so he can win the most. That's what he does, after all, is win the most, right? Does the winner produce anything of value at all? I don't see it, if he does. Maybe his game improves, but why does that matter, except for more money exchanged, but still nothing of value is produced.
So, what does gambling eventually do to one's self-esteem? I say it diminishes it, as the reality is very little or no values are produced. This knowledge of being a non-producer wears on a person after time. Like the loser justifiying his losses by lying to himself about his abilities, the winner justifies his lost time by looking at the money won. But what of the value of the time spent? Couldn't it be better spent on producing something that others want and will pay for? A life wasted on nothing is sad indeed.
No amount of money obtained, when nothing of value is created, can bring the same level of happiness that is acheived through productive accomplishments. That saying in The Color of Money about "money won is twice as sweet as money earned," is the biggest crock of crap I've ever heard...and the sad part is, those words hang on and are even put on t-shirts, etc.
Therefore, if living on gambling money, the "winner" becomes life's loser in reality.The big winner may just be the biggest loser. If he did not play pool for money, the good gambler might just, in the long run, earn much more money, happiness, and love at a reality based, value-generating activity.
Think about it, anyway.
Jeff Livingston
,
I did not quit gambling because I was getting my a-- kicked as you put it. I quit gambling before my prime and had never ended one full night as a loser up to that point. I lost matches but never once ended the night a loser. I usually left the pool hall with my front pocket swelled with small bills. Back then I played bar table pool winner stands and something was bet on almost every game. I have played in many Tommy Kennedy South East Tour tournaments and have counted the money myself. Here is how it really is. Tommy gets paid about $500 from the owner that is not a part of the prize fund or entry fees, for putting on the event. Then there is $15 held out of every entry fee for registration fees. Part of that goes back to Pechaeur as tour sponsor. Now if you are talking calcutta money. Tommy has nothing to do with the auction. Others run it and hold out 10% for running it. There might be some ladies and junior players and league players and senior players all of which get discounted entry fees in the tournament. All of that adds up to smaller amount of money than you think should be there, but Tommy is cheating no one. I sponsor his tour and am glad he puts it on. You use the term Born Again like it is a disease or something that only dishonest people hide behind. I would encourage you to get to know some real christians before you make harsh judgements on all. The reason you don't see websites complaining about Tommy taking over $2000 out of every tournament is simply because it is not true. Get the facts straight before you slander a upstanding guy like Tommy. By the way I met Tommy when he still gambled and he was winning a ring game against some top players last time I saw him gamble also. He quit shortly after. Not sure what your deeper issues are, but as the old hymn says, "Just a little talk with Jesus makes it right." Maybe you should have one with Him.jungledude said:A person that thinks that God really cares if me and a person who obviously thinks he plays better than me are betting money on our skills
really has some serious problems. All these born again guys who were degenerate gamblers who no longer gamble in reality guys who are not tough enough to take the ass whippings any longer so they think of another way
of getting your money. As for Tommy Kennedy I'm sure he's a good person but what he does every week is worse to me than what he used to do as a pool hustler. He takes upwards of $2,000 out of every tournament he runs from
entry fees as a salary for running the pechauer tournaments. That my friend, is stealing-S T E A L I N G from the same guys he played against in tournaments in previous years. I prooved this to everyone who played in his tournaments in Gulfport where the "pot" was $2200 short with no explanation
and the owner said he didn't have the $2200. Murders, dope on every street corner, armed robberies, child molesters, these are the people, not the guy playing his friend some $100 sets of nine ball, are what God has to send his wrath too, and on no websites do I see people complaining about that. I've gambled at pool most days of my life (I'm 60 years old), I raised three children sent them thru college and now have eight beautiful grandchildren, and my pool gambling which has sometimes been outrageous has never bothered anyone in my family or caused them to have problems. I thank God for that and I fully realize that most don't share my views on the subject but I offer my opinion for those who might consider the remote possibility that I could be correct.
chefjeff said:No amount of money obtained, when nothing of value is created, can bring the same level of happiness that is acheived through productive accomplishments. That saying in The Color of Money about "money won is twice as sweet as money earned," is the biggest crock of crap I've ever heard...and the sad part is, those words hang on and are even put on t-shirts, etc.
tap tap tap
Dave
Great post, ChefJeff. I must respond to Jungledude's post (with all due respect) that it seems to me God is not interested in what we "think" is right, wrong, or trivial to him; and although there are inconsistencies in the Bible, many things are spelled out absolutely, in no uncertain terms (such as the Ten Commandments). Therefore, whether one agrees or disagrees, or thinks it's unfair or even ludicrous, some things are sins according to the Bible and if one is a Christian then one must take that into consideration (the poster asked if "gambling was wrong as a Christian"). I'm by no means an authority on this, just my understanding based on (lengthy and involved) discussions with Christian friends (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong!!!). 
cueman said:
The definition of coveting doesn't say if you obtain that which you covet, or how you might obtain it. Only that you long for it.
cov·et ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kvt)
v. cov·et·ed, cov·et·ing, cov·ets
v. tr.
To feel blameworthy desire for (that which is another's).
To wish for longingly.
I do not think most gamblers long for the money any more than you have longed for your paycheck. Hustling is deception. I do realize the difference between hustling and gambling.
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Thanks for the replies...
Thanks to everyone for their input. I have been playing for about 15 years, but only recently have I seemingly discovered that there is something to this gambling thing. I can honestly say that money that I work for seems to last longer and stretch further than money I've won on a pool game. Maybe it's just because I could be tighter with the money I've worked for, but then again, maybe not. Would anyone's opinion of money won gambling be considered "ill-gotten gain" or "filthy lucre", as the Bible puts it? Could that be why people think it's a sin to gamble? When I used to gamble, someone was going home broke, and 90% of the time it wasn't me. I know how bad it felt when I went home broke, but back then it never bothered me to send the other guy packing without so much as enough money to buy a soda. Now, I just can't seem to bring myself to try and break somebody's pocketbook. I think it's the "do unto others" philosophy that I have now that is engaging my conscience more, and my conscience is now more alive than it has been in the past. Keep the replies coming!
Thanks to everyone for their input. I have been playing for about 15 years, but only recently have I seemingly discovered that there is something to this gambling thing. I can honestly say that money that I work for seems to last longer and stretch further than money I've won on a pool game. Maybe it's just because I could be tighter with the money I've worked for, but then again, maybe not. Would anyone's opinion of money won gambling be considered "ill-gotten gain" or "filthy lucre", as the Bible puts it? Could that be why people think it's a sin to gamble? When I used to gamble, someone was going home broke, and 90% of the time it wasn't me. I know how bad it felt when I went home broke, but back then it never bothered me to send the other guy packing without so much as enough money to buy a soda. Now, I just can't seem to bring myself to try and break somebody's pocketbook. I think it's the "do unto others" philosophy that I have now that is engaging my conscience more, and my conscience is now more alive than it has been in the past. Keep the replies coming!
Sorry to revive this but I wanted to post my views on the subect... and its not that old...
Any form of competition is against what the bible has taught us. The only one deserving of your time and passion Jehovah (or Yaweh/Iehova) the one and Only true God. The bible specifically teaches us what to do, love one another. Now there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to love your brothers and have good times and play pool with them... but the desire to win is what is wrong. Closely study the begining of the church as noted in Acts. This life is the life outlined for us.
Any form of competition is against what the bible has taught us. The only one deserving of your time and passion Jehovah (or Yaweh/Iehova) the one and Only true God. The bible specifically teaches us what to do, love one another. Now there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to love your brothers and have good times and play pool with them... but the desire to win is what is wrong. Closely study the begining of the church as noted in Acts. This life is the life outlined for us.
poolplayer1988 said:I'm trying to figure out if gambling is wrong as a Christian, and why? I know this is probably a more Biblical discussion than a pool discussion, but I just wanted to get you guys' opinion. I've heard that gambling was bad because in the Bible, the soldiers "cast lots" for Jesus' clothes. BUT, later on in the book of Acts the Apostles "cast lots" to decide who the disciple would be that replaced Judas Iscariot. Hmmmm....... Your opinions would be greatly appreciated.
The casting of lots had nothing to do with gambling. If you look into why that was done it's not only quite interesting but was certainly not gambling.
I think as a Christian it comes down to how you feel about it personally. It depends on what you are accomplishing and why. For a desire to make money, well that's not probably very biblical. As for a desire to enjoy yourself because you like the extra challenge for competition then there should be nothing wrong unless you find paying for entertainment wrong.
People like to list things as right and wrong because they have personal beliefs...as a person who has been a Christian for 25 years and studied 100;s of books and actually read the bible through in many translations several times I have come to one conclusion. If it isn't written down in black and white it's a personal conviction that is meant for you and you alone. When someone tries to tell you what is right or wrong based on their set of beliefs from personal feelings...then they are actually wrong.
In a nut shell...if it bothers you...personally...dont' do it.
Pushout said:
sorry if i have offended you, but he asked what the bible said in regards to the topic.
i'm not trying to stir up a debate or religous controversy... I'm just letting him know what I have found, based on actually reading the bible and studying it. Now Following what it says is a struggle in itself...
I am in complete disagreement with you on this one and I am a Born-again Christian.If competing and desiring to win is wrong,then why does the apostle Paul talk about an athlete who trains for competition when he is trying to make a point about our spiritual disciplines?madhaterm3 said:
The sin is when you worship something other than God.Desiring to play well and even win is not worship my friend.It is an instinct that God put in man for the purposes of survival.Sports are simply a way for men to express their God Given drive to achieve and experience triumph without harming others.It is also a way for men to develop compassion for others when they experience the pain of losing for themselves.Good,healthy competition develops character and skills needed to get through life.
Knock it off
I know you're new here, but this bible-thumping is totally inappropriate for this forum. This is supposed to be pool related. Don't jam your religion down our throats.Onepocket73 said:
Well,for one,I am not new here.For two,I wasn't talking to you.For three,I have a question for you.Why are you so bothered by my words?worldison2 said:
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