A question for A players only...

K

ktrepal85

Banned
I have a question regarding your history as a pool player.

It seems that when you first get into pool you rapidly improve until you catch up with the learning curve and you improve at a much slower rate. Then for months or years you see very little improvement until one day, almost over night, you have a massive breakthrough where your game elevates to a very high level of play.

Well my question is, did you have a huge overnight improvement at one point? If you did, I'd like to about hear it. How well did you play before hand? How well did you play afterwards? What led to this breakthrough? Did you feel it coming at the time? Tell me all about it! Motivate me!! I feel like I am close to a breakthrough but I'm just waiting for the day...

Thanks,
Kevin
 
To be honest, anyone who is serious about improving does 1 of 2 things. Buys and researches every shred of info they can on the market or seeks out the best players in their area and gain tutelage.

Some do both but at some point they plateau out. No more info or they've exhausted what they can from their senior players. So what's the next step?

Well pool is game, that when you break it down, great players got to be great bc it's about self discovery. It's about learning to play the game, in your own unique way.

That's why you have some instructors that will say THIS is how you should do it bc it eliminates variables. While that may be true and a great starting point or base it's not going to take u to the next level. Why? Bc those same instructors when asked, "well Busty doesn't do that, or mcready stands like this, or Hopkins pokes that" say that's how they learned to play the game.

Ah there's the RUB. They learned to play LIKE that. It was there own discoveries about their body type or the way it helps them line up shots etc. but that's purely mechanics.

Great players break thru bc they discover themselves, stop trying to play like someone else, and ultimately believe that what they are doing is the way pool should be played, for themselves personally.

Pool tables and balls are bound by physics. But then consider the vast variables that make a bank shot, a not so simple as hit here and u make it. Speed, spin, humidity, and rails make it more complex.

Then consider your physical predisposition. I can't play like you bc we have varying body types and visual differences and a whole slew of other things.

Ultimately pool is a game of personal expression. The table does not lie and will expose any flaw you have in your game. You may curse the gods and blame your misfortune on your opponents rolls, but in the end it was your lack of understanding of what you are and aren't capable of. And whether or not you have taken the necessary measures to improve your weaknesses.

Break thru by identifying mental mistakes and mentality during pressure moments. Did being angry make u play better or worse? Did you dwell on making mistakes? Were u nervous and that cost u your first loss in a tournament, then you played great only to come short bc you were on the losers bracket? Did an opponents luck cause you to play poorly?

It's all self discovery in the end.
Trust yourself, ignore the naysayers, work your butt off. -Arnold Schwarzenegger
 
It's been a long time ago but I guess one day, instead of aiming and hitting my shots in...I feel all my shots now. Not sure if u know what I mean. It's more of a push stroke to me and I try hard to put the cue ball in the perfect spot to hit almost every shot at pocket speed. Cue ball control is most important. I use cue off the rail whenever i can. Rails are your friend, if you plan to shoot off it, your cue ball won't be on it. Learning to control english on cue ball, cue ball could travel far off the rail without hitting hard ever. On harder shots, play two way shots. I try to never hit hard. Only time i do is if the ball is close to the pocket.
 
you got it right!

IamCalvin06 said:
To be honest, anyone who is serious about improving does 1 of 2 things. Buys and researches every shred of info they can on the market or seeks out the best players in their area and gain tutelage.

So what's the next step?

Well pool is game, that when you break it down, great players got to be great bc it's about self discovery. It's about learning to play the game, in your own unique way.

Great players break thru bc they discover themselves, stop trying to play like someone else,

Ultimately pool is a game of personal expression.
It's all self discovery in the end.
Click to expand...

Well said!
 
As someone on the A/B border I'll say that for me, I improved to high B pretty fast because I'm dedicated and my memory helps me learn and retain information. Playing the best players for $$ is how I learned to hone my focus, and I could talk through my racks with them to see the flaws.

Currently, my progress is halting so I've started doing drills to solidify the weak part of my game: CB, and speed control for getting shape.

I think the real breakthrough comes with clarity and understanding: Both of your own game, and how the balls roll. Knowing what English, and speed to hit a shot to land on a dime.
 
Dont know if I would be considered an A player since different tournaments have different classifications. But for what its worth, the biggest / fastest improvement in my game i had was when I switched and committed myself to playing with an LD shaft.

I was able to concentrate on my pattern play more because I was missing a lot less balls


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
IamCalvin06 said:
To be honest, anyone who is serious about improving does 1 of 2 things. Buys and researches every shred of info they can on the market or seeks out the best players in their area and gain tutelage.



Some do both but at some point they plateau out. No more info or they've exhausted what they can from their senior players. So what's the next step?



Well pool is game, that when you break it down, great players got to be great bc it's about self discovery. It's about learning to play the game, in your own unique way.



That's why you have some instructors that will say THIS is how you should do it bc it eliminates variables. While that may be true and a great starting point or base it's not going to take u to the next level. Why? Bc those same instructors when asked, "well Busty doesn't do that, or mcready stands like this, or Hopkins pokes that" say that's how they learned to play the game.



Ah there's the RUB. They learned to play LIKE that. It was there own discoveries about their body type or the way it helps them line up shots etc. but that's purely mechanics.



Great players break thru bc they discover themselves, stop trying to play like someone else, and ultimately believe that what they are doing is the way pool should be played, for themselves personally.



Pool tables and balls are bound by physics. But then consider the vast variables that make a bank shot, a not so simple as hit here and u make it. Speed, spin, humidity, and rails make it more complex.



Then consider your physical predisposition. I can't play like you bc we have varying body types and visual differences and a whole slew of other things.



Ultimately pool is a game of personal expression. The table does not lie and will expose any flaw you have in your game. You may curse the gods and blame your misfortune on your opponents rolls, but in the end it was your lack of understanding of what you are and aren't capable of. And whether or not you have taken the necessary measures to improve your weaknesses.



Break thru by identifying mental mistakes and mentality during pressure moments. Did being angry make u play better or worse? Did you dwell on making mistakes? Were u nervous and that cost u your first loss in a tournament, then you played great only to come short bc you were on the losers bracket? Did an opponents luck cause you to play poorly?



It's all self discovery in the end.

Trust yourself, ignore the naysayers, work your butt off. -Arnold Schwarzenegger
Click to expand...


Great post! Thank you. I was thinking similar things, but you put it all into words very well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
IamCalvin06 said:
To be honest, anyone who is serious about improving does 1 of 2 things. Buys and researches every shred of info they can on the market or seeks out the best players in their area and gain tutelage.

Some do both but at some point they plateau out. No more info or they've exhausted what they can from their senior players. So what's the next step?

Well pool is game, that when you break it down, great players got to be great bc it's about self discovery. It's about learning to play the game, in your own unique way.

That's why you have some instructors that will say THIS is how you should do it bc it eliminates variables. While that may be true and a great starting point or base it's not going to take u to the next level. Why? Bc those same instructors when asked, "well Busty doesn't do that, or mcready stands like this, or Hopkins pokes that" say that's how they learned to play the game.

Ah there's the RUB. They learned to play LIKE that. It was there own discoveries about their body type or the way it helps them line up shots etc. but that's purely mechanics.

Great players break thru bc they discover themselves, stop trying to play like someone else, and ultimately believe that what they are doing is the way pool should be played, for themselves personally.

Pool tables and balls are bound by physics. But then consider the vast variables that make a bank shot, a not so simple as hit here and u make it. Speed, spin, humidity, and rails make it more complex.

Then consider your physical predisposition. I can't play like you bc we have varying body types and visual differences and a whole slew of other things.

Ultimately pool is a game of personal expression. The table does not lie and will expose any flaw you have in your game. You may curse the gods and blame your misfortune on your opponents rolls, but in the end it was your lack of understanding of what you are and aren't capable of. And whether or not you have taken the necessary measures to improve your weaknesses.

Break thru by identifying mental mistakes and mentality during pressure moments. Did being angry make u play better or worse? Did you dwell on making mistakes? Were u nervous and that cost u your first loss in a tournament, then you played great only to come short bc you were on the losers bracket? Did an opponents luck cause you to play poorly?

It's all self discovery in the end.
Trust yourself, ignore the naysayers, work your butt off. -Arnold Schwarzenegger
Click to expand...

sent you a greenie
GREAT POST....:thumbup:
 
bbb said:
sent you a greenie
GREAT POST....:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Thanks idk why but I've been getting a lot of bad reps lately, just bc i speak my mind. O well can't please everyone right. And I'm certainly not on here to play the collect points game lol

I mean like I said pool is just a reflection of yourself. I remember hearing post about how pool was in old days. How they hate the new age players and their robotic demeaner to the game.

Well that's just a reflection of the new modern era. We are a bunch of f,king slaves to technology. Glued to our phones by our thumbs, constantly scrolling. So why wouldn't you expect pool players to have the same mentality?

I get it though. Back then you could see the fire in pool players. Big hearts, and killer instincts. But now is an Information Age that tells ppl keeping emotions in check will yield greater success, so we buy into it and it shows in our pool game.

But then you have Alex who reminds us that it's still ok to have fun and when you get back to the table play like a lion.

Or Efren, who everyone loves bc the way he plays reflects the life of someone completely emersed in the game. The incredible shots are a reflection of all the nights he spent sleeping under a table, dreaming about shots.

The stroke of Buddy Hall, graceful, methodical, but when needed could move mountains let alone a rock. Again reflection of himself, a big gentle giant, that was methodical in his pattern play and safeties.

Could go on and on but these are just my favorite examples.

Play the game the way you think it should be and you'll get where you want, but the second you get away from that and start thinking you're not the key to the puzzle, that's when you fall off.
 
ktrepal85 said:
I have a question regarding your history as a pool player.

It seems that when you first get into pool you rapidly improve until you catch up with the learning curve and you improve at a much slower rate. Then for months or years you see very little improvement until one day, almost over night, you have a massive breakthrough where your game elevates to a very high level of play.

Well my question is, did you have a huge overnight improvement at one point? If you did, I'd like to about hear it. How well did you play before hand? How well did you play afterwards? What led to this breakthrough? Did you feel it coming at the time? Tell me all about it! Motivate me!! I feel like I am close to a breakthrough but I'm just waiting for the day...

Thanks,
Kevin
Click to expand...

I don't know about over night, but I remember watching another player run out like well water and I said to myself those shots he is shooting ain't hard why can't I run out consistantly? I grabbed a rack of balls and realized that it was position play that made the difference so I worked on fine tuning my position play. In 9 ball I found that you never want to be straight in unless it is the 9 ball. Once I started keeping an angle on each shot my runs increased because I didn't have to come with a tough shot to get shape on the next ball.
 
At the A level I would say the jump is not the same as the lower levels and more play and hard work is involved. Confidence goes a long way toward improvement at the higher levels.

I bet most of us remember some of those lower level breakthrough moments. Running that first rack in straight pool, stringing a few racks in 9 ball. The feeling of excitement and surging confidence as you see our game improve by leaps and bounds.

In my experience, once a player reaches "A" level there will be small but constant improvement with stiff competition and practice, but no big overnight jump. To be an A player, you'll run out in 9 ball most of the time with an open table, but that by itself will not beat other A players, because you will have fewer opportunities. An A player can improve by becoming more competitive. For example, improved safety play, kicking game, break, or banking accuracy will make you more competitive with less weaknesses an opponent can exploit. This breeds confidence and confidence is needed to play your best in competition.
 
Last edited:
ktrepal85 said:
I have a question regarding your history as a pool player.

It seems that when you first get into pool you rapidly improve until you catch up with the learning curve and you improve at a much slower rate. Then for months or years you see very little improvement until one day, almost over night, you have a massive breakthrough where your game elevates to a very high level of play.

Well my question is, did you have a huge overnight improvement at one point? If you did, I'd like to about hear it. How well did you play before hand? How well did you play afterwards? What led to this breakthrough? Did you feel it coming at the time? Tell me all about it! Motivate me!! I feel like I am close to a breakthrough but I'm just waiting for the day...

Thanks,
Kevin
Click to expand...

I never had an overnight breakthru persay, but the speed of improvement always seems related to the combination of talent and work. When we're young, our talent allows us to improve quickly. If you've maximized your talent (toolbag), it's hard to make a significant improvement quickly in my opinion.

As a good experienced player, the biggest leap I've found in my game, speaking from the standpoint of a mature career, was learning how to play other games well. For example, being decent at 3-cushion opens some doors to the kicking game in 9-ball. And moving well in one pocket seems to help everywhere.

Another opportunity for a breakthru is if you have a sore deficiency in your game somewhere and maybe don't know it, then your eyes get opened somehow and you fix it.

But it seems as the years go on, best chances of significant improvement are more dominated by the mental side (learning and understanding) than the physical execution.

I never really had a wakeup-in-the-morning-hell-yes moment, but did manage to avoid plateaus by constantly learning.
 
I never experienced a rapid, huge jump in my game, but you may find my experience useful anyway.

Oddly, the best thing I ever did for my game was walking away from pool for over a year. I had built my rotation game up to the A level through years of playing 7 days a week, and I was a pure feel player. When I came back to the game after my layoff, my feel was gone. I couldn't run out from the parking lot anymore, and didn't have the depth of knowledge/skill to fall back on. Knowing that my days of playing 7 days a week were over, I started to look for other ways to improve. I delved into all sorts of systems, read pretty much every scrap of instructional info I could get my hands on, and began to focus on the mental game for the first time ever.

While I wasn't putting in the hours required to get my old "A" game back, what I inadvertently developed at that time was a sort of toughness and resilience which made it possible for me to win with my "B" game. I learned to play a decent safety game, and, more importantly, when to duck and when to shoot based on how well I was hitting the ball that day. I found a couple of good aiming and kicking systems, so even if I wasn't feeling it, I could still pocket difficult shots, kick for left side/right side or thick/thin hits, and move whitey with accuracy. And I found some mental techniques that helped me focus on constructive (or at least benign) things when competing. In short, I became a student of the game, and having those tools in the bag gave me confidence that was sorely lacking as a former feel player who was no longer "feeling it" most of the time.

The last few years, I have played very little. Most weeks I don't even screw together, and a big pool week for me would be 5-6 hours, usually in a single session. But what I learned after my layoff has held my "B" at a very consistent level despite how little I play. I don't expect to see my "A" game any time soon, but at least I know when I do step to the table I'll be playing the smartest pool I've ever played.

My advice - become a student of the game, or a better student if you are one already.

Best of luck,
Aaron
 
For me the jumps have come in different areas, not a flood at once. Shooting balls down the rail, one night I just started seeing them correctly. Draw shots also just started to work at some point in time. Two and three rail kicks came at a different time. Not really sure when, I guess when I started to see them more clearly. Shots where the cue ball is on the rail and the object ball is at the other end of the table just started to click when I homed in on the correct way to stroke it for me. Confidence is a big factor, too, that just comes with the practice over time.
 
If you don't practice and compete it's impossible to improve. You have to put yourself in positions to grow and even fail. That's not in our nature really...to take chances outside the comfort zone.

Being a person on a journey helps. It's not a simple thing to gain mastery. It is however a self guided venture. So dedication perseverance and experience are the tools. You gotta stay motivated and that is best when it comes from within. Pool doesn't offer as much as it used to. You have to have realistic expectations.
 
When you hear someone mention table time as the key....yes, ...but what they meant by that is Shot Recognition. It means you just saw that same shot, or very similar, just shot that same shot and understood visually and physically the outcome. You recognized the shot and knew just how to hit it perfectly. You've seen that shot and struck the cue a certain way as to deliver the desired outcome, recently, repeatedly, recognizabley. There are only so many shots on a table. Table time leads to shot recognition. Shot Recognition leads to confidence ..and is key for any advanced players success.
 
In today's day and age, we can watch pros play on Youtube or live streaming whenever we want to. I wish I had that at my disposal as a young player growing up. It might have led me to such a breakthru that the op speaks of....being able to improve my patterns at a much faster rate by watching, rewinding, understanding, etc.
 
This a great thread and have enjoyed reading every post. It appears everybodys game evolves differently. I am a B player and feel I am on the verge of breaking through to an A player and this is how it went with me. Let me say I am a feel player as I just SEE the table. I am not one to lay my cue down on the table and determine angles. I just see them. Playing 3 cushion has helped me with this for kick shots and 3 rail position. It seems I get better and then take a few steps back and then plateau. Working through the plateau I always break through it a better player. I feel my mechanics are good and am now working with the mental side of the game which I feel is where consistency, and most of all, confidence resides. I'm working on getting any negativity out of my head and believe that is what is needed to step up to the next level.
 
Aloha

I have read through the posts on here, and I think there is one thing that is being missed on this thread....if you want to have a break through in the cue sports it helps to understand percentages in ones own skill set.

Bare with me for a second.

If one could theoretically learn 100% of the game of pool. Then it would stand to reason that the more you learn/study and apply these lessons to the game, the harder it is to have a break though to the next level. Kinda like viewing a bell curve, for lack of better terminology.

When one is first starting to play, the lessons/fundamentals and knowledge come easy. The new player is building a memory bank of shots, Ect. and there is a lot to learn and apply. As one approaches the back side of the bell curve there is less information to learn and apply, as the bell curve would illustrate. It becomes increasing harder to reach the end of the bell curve as one gets closer to the theoretical 100% mark. It could be one slight change that could take the player to the next level. Everyone will have a different catalyst depending on where thier particular flaws are, and any one thing may excellerate thier game.

If done properly with expert tutelage and attention to detail the student of the game would not have any flaws. Now we all know this is theoretical and would not happen. As the player and human are going to have some flaws in some aspect of the game. Eventually there will be a flattening out and stalling of the game.

This is where qualified instruction and practice come into play. The player has to figure out what thier percentages are for each aspect of the game and where thier particular flaws lie. By working out their particular flaws they are increasing thier percentages on the bell curve or moving further down the line. It is the little things that will make the biggest difference in the end. It is much harder to go from 95-96% then it is to go from 75-76%.

If you want to get past the current plateau you are on, then work on your own personal percentages and take an accurate account of your game. Keep a journal or log book. Then you will know what needs work and how to fix it. The smallest thing may be your catalyst. Good luck with your journey.

Aloha
 
Albatross Cues said:
Aloha

I have read through the posts on here, and I think there is one thing that is being missed on this thread....if you want to have a break through in the cue sports it helps to understand percentages in ones own skill set.

Bare with me for a second.

If one could theoretically learn 100% of the game of pool. Then it would stand to reason that the more you learn/study and apply these lessons to the game, the harder it is to have a break though to the next level. Kinda like viewing a bell curve, for lack of better terminology.

When one is first starting to play, the lessons/fundamentals and knowledge come easy. The new player is building a memory bank of shots, Ect. and there is a lot to learn and apply. As one approaches the back side of the bell curve there is less information to learn and apply, as the bell curve would illustrate. It becomes increasing harder to reach the end of the bell curve as one gets closer to the theoretical 100% mark. It could be one slight change that could take the player to the next level. Everyone will have a different catalyst depending on where thier particular flaws are, and any one thing may excellerate thier game.

If done properly with expert tutelage and attention to detail the student of the game would not have any flaws. Now we all know this is theoretical and would not happen. As the player and human are going to have some flaws in some aspect of the game. Eventually there will be a flattening out and stalling of the game.

This is where qualified instruction and practice come into play. The player has to figure out what thier percentages are for each aspect of the game and where thier particular flaws lie. By working out their particular flaws they are increasing thier percentages on the bell curve or moving further down the line. It is the little things that will make the biggest difference in the end. It is much harder to go from 95-96% then it is to go from 75-76%.

If you want to get past the current plateau you are on, then work on your own personal percentages and take an accurate account of your game. Keep a journal or log book. Then you will know what needs work and how to fix it. The smallest thing may be your catalyst. Good luck with your journey.

Aloha
Click to expand...

Some very good points. Evolving as a player means you can accurately evaluate the risk vs. reward of each shot AT YOUR CURRENT SKILL LEVEL. This is where winning comes from. The correct shot for a particular player could be different than the correct shot for a better or worse player. You must evaluate accurately. What option gives YOU the best chances of winning the game.

But at the same time, you must constantly try the more advanced shots so you eventually master them (practice, not for money, etc.) and hopefully avoid plateaus.

When Andre Agassi was a young pro, his coach Nick Bollettieri told him to hit the ball as hard as he can and eventually they'll all go in. If Agassi never swung for the fences, he'd never have gotten to #1 and won so many tennis titles.
 
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