AB96......How Does It Affect You?

Bavafongoul

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As cue-makers, what will be the resultant impact of AB-96 after Governor Brown signs this new ivory ban that will become effective July 1, 2016................no more sales of any ivory, or items containing ivory, legal or otherwise.......a complete ban on the purchase /sale of ivory in California next summer.

Will you just substitute different materials for ivory, avoid the CA market all together, look for loopholes in the law, or maybe just give up the West Coast market since Oregon is the same way, or so I've read on the Forum.....didn't bother to confirm that......anyway, does the ban of ivory impact your business in any way and if so, what's your assessment....maybe you already don't use much ivory in cues yu build?

If, as a cue-maker, you do not see any significant market share erosion or associated loss of business, that's great for you. However, if you're a cue-maker that lives in California, and there are a bunch, do you foresee any loss of business on future cue orders since you won't be able to use any ivory in cues you sell. You can't always persuade someone to change to a different cue joint or ferrules if they wanted ivory but as a CA cue-maker, that's verboten after 7/1/16. Could this become another possible reason to think about possibly relocating your business outside of CA?

I know that I am thinking of buying some back-up ivory ferrules in case one of my ivory ferrules were to become damaged even though it's never happened. Regardless,, as cue-makers, this can't be a sign of good things to come since legislation tends to spread......albeit slowly & gradually but it inevitably seems to happen nonetheless.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Matt B.
 
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I live in Florida but I'm tired of all the BS concerning the restricting of ivory. The government can't seem to focus on things that really concern citizens of this country, ISIS, the economy, the impending race wars (which it seems they want).

I use ivory. I love the look and feel. It's beautiful. I do not condone the slaughter of elephants. However the ivory I have and use is from elephants killed a long time ago. Does that make it right? I don't know. I do know I have not and will not purchase any illegal ivory. There's plenty of ivory available from elephants who died a long time ago.

A further illustration of the idiocy would be a proposal that also bans mammoth ivory. Really? WTF? How in any way does this save elephants currently living on planet earth?

As if poachers are going to stop because the US makes stricter laws. It's been illegal to import ivory for how long? Hint: there are many other markets for illegal ivory....
 
It is a waste of money as 99.9% of all Ivory was brought into this country legally. They need to look to Asia for the buyers of black market Ivory. It may mean I no longer ship any ivory cues to CA next year.
 
Obviously I agree with your position.....just at at what I own......the law is illogical but that's what we get
nowadays at all levels of government.......Federal, State, County & City......doesn't matter or so it seems.
 
Ivory ban

I believe the powers to be already know the USA is not a significant player in the ilegal ivory trade. Therefore, we must look for other political reasons. We cannot try and make sense of all these propose laws...none make sense or will have an impact on the poaching of elephant tusks.

Perhaps they hope the rest of the world will follow, very unlikely.

I think in the USA we are going to see our Ivory shipping map shrink.


Mario
 
Federal law trumps state law so any law California creates is useless. Federal law states that it is lawful to ship ivory between states, etc (right now 9/8/15). There is currently a California law which prohibits any California resident from buying or selling ivory. People sell it from there all the time and many others ship it into CA all the time.

Of course, if the pinheads in California want to prosecute you, they are well within their rights under State law but it will then be up to the accused to defend it based on Federal law and ultimately win but at what cost!?

Bottom line -- California is not part of the USA so who cares what happens out there. It's almost to the point that New York is becoming California east so who cares what happens up there. You have the rest of the country to deal with who are still sane.

This country sure has changed from the 60's and 70's. All the flower power children are a bunch of losers making these ridiculous laws and restrictions.
 
Joe,

I am not aware that shipping ivory between the states is not allowed. The original reg specifies very clearly that possession does not constitute any violation of the regulation......that's spelled out plainly. I also have never heard of any instance of a cue being confiscated through the mails because it contained ivory when it was shipped within the confines of the USA. Surely this was have made headlines somewhere in the billiard industry.

To the very best of my knowledge, you can own and ship cues that have been made with ivory components through the US mail or via common carrier in the USA. You can't buy and sell these cues within California after 7/1/16, however, I can always still ship my cues through the mails........confiscation of legally owned private property from US citizens hasn't happened yet.

If it wasn't allowed to ship cues that had ivory, there would be a lot of press about that I'd otherwise imagine. In any event, I was told by US Fish & Wildlife in 2014 that the reg specifically allows for legal ownership of pre-ban ivory in artifacts but transportation of those type items outside the borders of the USA was not permissible without a CITES permit which seems literally impossible to obtain.

Nonetheless, you may be aware of some developments that I haven't heard about yet.........I do hope you are mistaken and am keeping my fingers & toes crossed.......I have 2 cues loaded with ivory coming next Spring.....I had my cue-makers move up the completion date from next summer due to the effective date of the CA ban since I don;t want to take any chances whatsoever.

Matt B.
 
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This interstate issue is an interesting one. Should what is going on in California and possibly New York be adopted nationally, and I wouldn’t rule that out, how in the hell would it be monitored? Would each state be responsible for establishing its’ own customs to control incoming and outgoing shipments of controlled stuff. Would major shippers such as UPS, FedEx, etc. all be required to redesign its’ hubs for that purpose and how would any changes to that effect be funded? . How would that interfere with a shipper’s overnight guaranteed delivery dates? It seems to me that the task for setting up procedures not to mention the enormous manpower and cooperation of major shippers would be daunting to say the least. At what point is this just too big and unreasonable to carry-out.
 
Bavafongoul said:
Joe,

I am not aware that shipping ivory between the states is not allowed. The original reg specifies very clearly that possession does not constitute any violation of the regulation......that's spelled out plainly. I also have never heard of any instance of a cue being confiscated through the mails because it contained ivory when it was shipped within the confines of the USA. Surely this was have made headlines somewhere in the billiard industry.

To the very best of my knowledge, you can own and ship cues that have been made with ivory components through the US mail or via common carrier in the USA. You can't buy and sell these cues within California after 7/1/16, however, I can always still ship my cues through the mails........confiscation of legally owned private property from US citizens hasn't happened yet.

If it wasn't allowed to ship cues that had ivory, there would be a lot of press about that I'd otherwise imagine. In any event, I was told by US Fish & Wildlife in 2014 that the reg specifically allows for legal ownership of pre-ban ivory in artifacts but transportation of those type items outside the borders of the USA was not permissible without a CITES permit which seems literally impossible to obtain.

Nonetheless, you may be aware of some developments that I haven't heard about yet.........I do hope you are mistaken and am keeping my fingers & toes crossed.......I have 2 cues loaded with ivory coming next Spring.....I had my cue-makers move up the completion date from next summer due to the effective date of the CA ban since I don;t want to take any chances whatsoever.

Matt B.
Click to expand...


Please read what I wrote. I said, California (which is not part of the USA anymore)has the dopey, far left wing (not that there is anything wrong with being a far left wing loon), tree hugging laws otherwise it can be shipped anywhere within the USA. California has a law right now on the books that prohibits buying and selling or shipping in/out of CA.
 
Walkermine said:
This interstate issue is an interesting one. Should what is going on in California and possibly New York be adopted nationally, and I wouldn’t rule that out, how in the hell would it be monitored? Would each state be responsible for establishing its’ own customs to control incoming and outgoing shipments of controlled stuff. Would major shippers such as UPS, FedEx, etc. all be required to redesign its’ hubs for that purpose and how would any changes to that effect be funded? . How would that interfere with a shipper’s overnight guaranteed delivery dates? It seems to me that the task for setting up procedures not to mention the enormous manpower and cooperation of major shippers would be daunting to say the least. At what point is this just too big and unreasonable to carry-out.
Click to expand...

If Hitlery Clinton of Nazi York wins the presidency, don't rule out anything .
 
Shipping of pool cues containing legal ivory is permissible....I know that for sure....per US Fish & Wildife iin Sacramento., CA.

It is the purchase and sale within the boundaries of CA that are affected since every state is considered a soverign and the states collectively comprise the United States America.

Confiscation of legally owned articles is against the law.......the ban does not say you are prohibited from owning ivory if you owned it prior to the ban being enacted and at the same
time, the ban is enacted de facto commencing on 7/1/16 going forward, not retroactively.

Shipment of cues containing ivory through the mails is perfectly legal as long as it is done in conformity and compliance with both Federal and applicable state laws of the shipper & recipient.

Matt B.
 
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Bavafongoul said:
As cue-makers, what will be the resultant impact of AB-96 after Governor Brown signs this new ivory ban that will become effective July 1, 2016................no more sales of any ivory, or items containing ivory, legal or otherwise.......a complete ban on the purchase /sale of ivory in California next summer.

Will you just substitute different materials for ivory, avoid the CA market all together, look for loopholes in the law, or maybe just give up the West Coast market since Oregon is the same way, or so I've read on the Forum.....didn't bother to confirm that......anyway, does the ban of ivory impact your business in any way and if so, what's your assessment....maybe you already don't use much ivory in cues yu build?

If, as a cue-maker, you do not see any significant market share erosion or associated loss of business, that's great for you. However, if you're a cue-maker that lives in California, and there are a bunch, do you foresee any loss of business on future cue orders since you won't be able to use any ivory in cues you sell. You can't always persuade someone to change to a different cue joint or ferrules if they wanted ivory but as a CA cue-maker, that's verboten after 7/1/16. Could this become another possible reason to think about possibly relocating your business outside of CA?

I know that I am thinking of buying some back-up ivory ferrules in case one of my ivory ferrules were to become damaged even though it's never happened. Regardless,, as cue-makers, this can't be a sign of good things to come since legislation tends to spread......albeit slowly & gradually but it inevitably seems to happen nonetheless.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Matt B.
Click to expand...




Have always wondered how does custom detect ivory ?

Do they have an ivory detector ?

I don't live in the US but a couple of my frens told me the best way to sneak ivory laden cues out of the US is to avoid USPS and use DHL or FedEx which is safer but still illegal but still if it gets detain at custom you are sole responsible for all loses as the cuemakers would warn them prior.
Or a sureway according to what i heard was hand-carry em through the airport but that obviously means making a trip to the US.

Would anyone like to chip in on this point ?
 
Cezar Morales said:
Have always wondered how does custom detect ivory ?

Do they have an ivory detector ?

I don't live in the US but a couple of my frens told me the best way to sneak ivory laden cues out of the US is to avoid USPS and use DHL or FedEx which is safer but still illegal but still if it gets detain at custom you are sole responsible for all loses as the cuemakers would warn them prior.
Or a sureway according to what i heard was hand-carry em through the airport but that obviously means making a trip to the US.

Would anyone like to chip in on this point ?
Click to expand...

http://www.realorrepro.com/article/Ivory-genuine-fake--confusing
Not worth the risk imo.
 
Cezar Morales said:
Have always wondered how does custom detect ivory ?

Do they have an ivory detector ?

I don't live in the US but a couple of my frens told me the best way to sneak ivory laden cues out of the US is to avoid USPS and use DHL or FedEx which is safer but still illegal but still if it gets detain at custom you are sole responsible for all loses as the cuemakers would warn them prior.
Or a sureway according to what i heard was hand-carry em through the airport but that obviously means making a trip to the US.

Would anyone like to chip in on this point ?
Click to expand...


Yes, they have ivory detectors which beep much like metal detectors. :grin:

Additionally, discussing how to evade US customs, etc. is not in the best interest of this thread nor the topic at hand so let's leave it at that.
 
HQueen said:
I live in Florida but I'm tired of all the BS concerning the restricting of ivory. The government can't seem to focus on things that really concern citizens of this country, ISIS, the economy, the impending race wars (which it seems they want).

I use ivory. I love the look and feel. It's beautiful. I do not condone the slaughter of elephants. However the ivory I have and use is from elephants killed a long time ago. Does that make it right? I don't know. I do know I have not and will not purchase any illegal ivory. There's plenty of ivory available from elephants who died a long time ago.

A further illustration of the idiocy would be a proposal that also bans mammoth ivory. Really? WTF? How in any way does this save elephants currently living on planet earth?

As if poachers are going to stop because the US makes stricter laws. It's been illegal to import ivory for how long? Hint: there are many other markets for illegal ivory....
Click to expand...

I believe your 'would be" is already a reality.
The new National Geographic has a great article about ivory and poaching.
 
bdcues said:
I believe your 'would be" is already a reality.
The new National Geographic has a great article about ivory and poaching.
Click to expand...


Can you please enlighten us on what was so "great" about it? Personally, I thought it was a slanted, yellow journalistic article and report.
 
Most of the articles I've read are very left wing earthy crunchy tree hugging save the f---ing planet type. Just by trying to ban mammoth ivory they've shown the lunacy of their intent. Last wooly mammoth I heard of died about 10,000 years ago. How in hell is banning the use of mammoth ivory going to save an already extinct species?

I like ivory and will keep using it, as long as it is legal. And I really don't care about anyone's opinion.
 
HQueen said:
Most of the articles I've read are very left wing earthy crunchy tree hugging save the f---ing planet type. Just by trying to ban mammoth ivory they've shown the lunacy of their intent. Last wooly mammoth I heard of died about 10,000 years ago. How in hell is banning the use of mammoth ivory going to save an already extinct species?

I like ivory and will keep using it, as long as it is legal. And I really don't care about anyone's opinion.
Click to expand...



Sort of brings a tear to my eye. :grin:

You have idiots in Washington who don't know what they're doing running the world's largest economy. What's wrong with that picture. We need people running this country who have the chutzpah to tell these fringe groups, lobbyists and special interests to take a hike. They want to ban something that's already banned and regulated because they want donations to fund their cause and earn large salaries from those donations. This country has gone amuck. It's time to take it back. Lock and load.
 
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