about cues: power, squirt, swerve, throw

[bdorman]

I might be all wrong about this (it has happened once before) but I don't see how swerve can be effected by the cue. Squirt, yes -- that's a factor of cue endmass so different cues will have different squirts.

But swerve is a function of CB spin and table cloth, both of which will be the same regardless of the cue used.

I guess I'm missing something.

 

[dr_dave]

... what do you think about this? do you prefer a cue with more or less swerve?

The type of cue has no direct effect on the amount of swerve or throw ... only squirt. The combined effect of squirt (AKA cue ball "deflection") and swerve is sometimes referred to as squerve or "net cue ball deflection" (although, some people simply use the word "deflection" for this, which can be confusing).

FYI, a complete summary of all squirt, swerve, and throw effects can be found on the squirt, swerve, throw effects resource page. Check it out. It might help improve your understanding of these concepts.

When comparing cues, even with a testing machine, one must be very careful with conclusions one draws. In a careful comparison, the cue weight, tip type shape and size, and cue speed must be carefully controlled. The cue should also be level if the goal is to characterize cue differences alone. For more info, see:

cue testing advice and considerations
cue tip size and shape effects

I hope that helps,
Dave

 

[DeadStick]

Man that's something that I always thought as well! I have both a mezz wd, and cpl of 314.

I always felt that my mezz deflected less but there was no proof of it other than my feeling.

It's pretty easy to compare squirt amounts between two shafts yourself, without any fancy equipment.

Set up a straight-in shot about 2 feet away from the object ball, line up to it perfectly straight, then pivot with your back hand to maximum side English at vertical center and shoot the shot firmly. Adjust your bridge length until the cueball stops in place, spinning (no left or right carom off the object ball). That bridge length is called the shaft's "pivot point."

The shaft with the longer pivot point is the shaft with lower "squirt" (CB deflection).

Standard shafts will heavy ferrules (ivory typically) have a pivot point around 6-8 inches. Standard shafts with lightweight and/or short ferrules (like my Lambros standard shaft with a short LBM ferrule) have a pivot point around 8-11 inches. LD shafts have a pivot point around 11 - 15" or even longer... for me, the Predator Z2 is the lowest I've found, around 14-15" with the standard Everest tip.

To me, this partially explains why many 14.1 and one-pocket players like traditional, high-deflection shafts - they're usually playing a tighter game, with shorter bridge lengths and shorter strokes. Rotation players, however, often need to let their stroke out, and power requires a longer bridge... and we see more LD shafts in play with the 9- and 10-ball players. If your squirt matches your bridge length, any accidental side-spin (or intentional side-spin applied with back-hand english) will still result in the CB going where you aimed it (unless you shoot soft enough for swerve to take effect).

 

[ctran]

"Cue-ball deflection" and "squirt" mean the same thing.

What you defined is often called "squerve," which is the net effect of squirt and swerve. It has also been called "net cue-ball deflection."

I might be all wrong about this (it has happened once before) but I don't see how swerve can be effected by the cue. Squirt, yes -- that's a factor of cue endmass so different cues will have different squirts.

But swerve is a function of CB spin and table cloth, both of which will be the same regardless of the cue used.

I guess I'm missing something.

The type of cue has no direct effect on the amount of swerve or throw ... only squirt. The combined effect of squirt (AKA cue ball "deflection") and swerve is sometimes referred to as squerve or "net cue ball deflection" (although, some people simply use the word "deflection" for this, which can be confusing).

FYI, a complete summary of all squirt, swerve, and throw effects can be found on the squirt, swerve, throw effects resource page. Check it out. It might help improve your understanding of these concepts.

When comparing cues, even with a testing machine, one must be very careful with conclusions one draws. In a careful comparison, the cue weight, tip type shape and size, and cue speed must be carefully controlled. The cue should also be level if the goal is to characterize cue differences alone. For more info, see:

cue testing advice and considerations
cue tip size and shape effects

I hope that helps,
Dave

Thanks a lot, guys, I got it now.

Thanks a lot for your inputs guys.