ABP or Barry Behrman: Which Side of the Fence Are You On?

[jason]

Here's the ABP's mission statement:

... to continually improve the sport of pocket billiards as measured by the Fans, Tournament Promoters, Sponsors and Players. "We will accomplish our goals through a relentless commitment to open and clear two way communications, by constantly searching for opportunities for cooperation and mutually beneficial partnerships and by making fact based decisions using industry input and research. Always, with the good of our sport and it's constituents being foremost in our thoughts and actions."​

The ABP is not living up to their mission statement, especially the parts highlighted in red above. The fact that Johnny has not responded to Barry's emails and phone calls is evidence that they are not committed to open and clear two way communications. In addition, the ABP's attorney has told their members to muzzle it...so where's the open communications? By engaging in this boycott, the ABP has demonstrated that they are not seeking a mutually beneficial partnership with Barry.

You're a little late on your post. Johnny has posted here as well as some other ABP members. Whether he personally has talked with Barry or not I'm not sure, but his son was also in the hospital. Runout Radio has done interviews with both Barry and Rodney. Rodney has stated that they are open to discussion.

 

[UGETTHE6]

You have a poll on a site where most people know nothing about professional pool, and 90% of them have never won more then $100 at a pool tournament, yeah, smart thinking. Like anyone is going to look at this poll and give a crap.

 

[Bankit]

Its been a long 14 months they have been talking and Barry still doesnt see that he should post what his payment plan is and still thinks its ok to give out post dated checks. If he can pay 92 then pay the rest ,Sir. Good idea Watches, except it wont work, seems they want it ahead of the event as they should. Players are right in this one guys. Dont let the weepy eyes and sobbing from the Bermans get to you, stay tough and get paid for your services as you should. If the bleachers are paid on time, then collect your pay on time as well. The Bermans need a better business plan if they are going to continue in these bad times. Asking for symapthy doesnt make it in the real business world. Cash speaks volumes. Someone reach in there wallet and show the Bermans some ,Love>

 

[jason]

You have a poll on a site where most people know nothing about professional pool, and 90% of them have never won more then $100 at a pool tournament, yeah, smart thinking. Like anyone is going to look at this poll and give a crap.

This coming from someone who rarely posts here. Where do you get all the demographic information about this site you claim to have?

Just for your info, I'm pretty sure this site has a higher than normal knowledge and skill level than one would expect. Is everyone here a pro? No, of course not. BTW, a railbird like JAM or anyone else for that matter doesn't have to have ever won a $100 to be qualified to vote in this poll.

 

[cuedoctor]

I have been to the open the last 12 years in a row. I understand the players position. I have traveled there and spent alot on hotels,food,session fees,billiard equipmeent,etc and its the best tournament there is but I think things have to change, Everyone has to pay the entrance fee no matter what and the payout should be based soley on what is taken in from them with no added money. Thats the way they want it the ABP and thats the way it should be. Only pay out the top 64 and the cut off should be 30 days before the tournament begins and all the money taken in will be available for payout then. Sure the payout wont be great but that too bad.............Barry's gotten nothin but crap for trying to make it bigger. I voted for barry because i think he really cares more than anyone else could ever imagine about the us open. The players have to look in the mirror and face tha facts. There is no major sponsarship in professional pool and theres got to be a reason for that.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

I think things have to change, Everyone has to pay the entrance fee no matter what and the payout should be based soley on what is taken in from them with no added money. Thats the way they want it the ABP and thats the way it should be.

Upon listening to the interview with Barry, I think he needs to be more flexible about revenues and expenses (sounds like our federal government!). Barry can save $10,000 by having past champions pay their own entry fees. Barry can save another 40K by not adding to the prize fund out of his own pocket. By making these expense reductions, Barry has a better chance of paying the players on time as well as ensuring that the tournament is on a better financial footing.

 

[AtLarge]

Upon listening to the interview with Barry, I think he needs to be more flexible about revenues and expenses (sounds like our federal government!). Barry can save $10,000 by having past champions pay their own entry fees. Barry can save another 40K by not adding to the prize fund out of his own pocket. By making these expense reductions, Barry has a better chance of paying the players on time as well as ensuring that the tournament is on a better financial footing.

If the added money is eliminated, it becomes a rather picayune event. Barry, rightfully, does not want that.

It appears that the problem is not an overall imbalance between revenues and expenses but, rather, just a timing issue. This should be a simple matter to resolve.

The more desirable solution is for Barry to develop the working capital needed to pay the prizes at the conclusion of the event. It's not clear whether he has exhausted all possibilities for this (as opposed to just being unwilling to do it).

The less desirable solution is for Barry to simply, and publicly, reset the expectations regarding the payment dates for the prize money. Several alternatives have already been suggested for this. One I'll propose is to commit to paying positions 5-96 (assuming a field of 256) in full at the event (as was done last year). For the top 4 positions, pay them at the event an amount that is at least as much as 5th/6th place receives ($6,000 last year) and defer the balance for an appropriate number of weeks. This will give the top 4 finishers plenty of money to cover their current, and near-term future, expenses. And it would have deferred up to $49,000 last year. The actual numbers would be set based on Barry's knowledge (as early as possible before the event) of what is really needed. Contractual penalties should result if the deferred amounts are not paid on time.

I can't imagine the ABP would rather boycott the event than consent to pre-arranged partial deferrals for the top 4 finishers. If the ABP rejects some such solution, I'd conclude that either they are foolish or they are not disclosing other factors relevant to this situation. If Barry rejects some such solution, I'd conclude that he has no intention of guaranteeing the prize fund in any manner, but intends to leave a revenue-shortfall risk entirely on the players rather than on himself.

 

[Spade]

I truly hope the US Open goes through smoothly so that everyone in the pool wins. it wouldnt be the same without BB and also without the top players

 

[JAM]

I truly hope the US Open goes through smoothly so that everyone in the pool wins. it wouldnt be the same without BB and also without the top players

I agree, Spade. Say "hi" to Charlie for us, will you?

 

[JAM]

This coming from someone who rarely posts here. Where do you get all the demographic information about this site you claim to have?

Just for your info, I'm pretty sure this site has a high than normal knowledge and skill level than one would expect. Is everyone here a pro? No, of course not. BTW, a railbird like JAM or anyone else for that matter doesn't have to have ever won a $100 to be qualified to vote in this poll.

Thanks for explanation about the poll, Jason. I've won $100 playing pool before, but it was a long time ago.

I think they may be right about one thing, though, and that is that we do have a lot of social shooters, amateurs, league players, and shortstops on our forum. The pros rarely post, as most of us know.

I'm very familiar with both sides of the fence. Having traveled the pro tournament trail for multiple years, I saw up front and close how difficult it is. You can forget about having a decent job. When you get home, at least for me, it takes me a few days to recover. All the driving and lack of sleep takes its toll on you. And instead of making money when you're out there competing, more times than not, you're spending money which you can't break even on unless you win, place, or show in the tournament.

Oh, one more thing. Unless you have an understanding wife or girlfriend or husband or boyfriend, be prepared to have little to no family life. Living out of a suitcase is where you'll be the majority of your life. Drugs and hookers are commonplace at some pool events. I hate to say it, but it's the damn truth, having seen it with my own eyes. To some players, this wouldn't matter, but to others, it's an occupational hazard.

For the hardcore pool players who try this lifestyle, they eat fast food to save money, which is not healthy. They have been known to sleep in cars all night to save one night of expense, as well as sharing hotel rooms with three other pool players, sometimes sleeping on the floor.

I am happy to see the support for Barry, and I'm also equally as happy to see the support for the ABP. This to me shows that there's hope that they can work together and remedy this problem.

 

[SCCues]

US Open $$$

I've been attending the US Open for 20 years and I sympathize with Barry on this issue. I can see the player's side, but I don't think they are giving Barry the credit he deserves.

I remember 2 events that happened during the US Open that hurt Barry and the money he needed to pay the players. One was a hurricane (Isabelle) and it wiped out some of the event and another was the terrorist attack which happened on 9/11 during the US Open which was another set back for Barry.

If I was a player who earned a good pay day I'd want it as soon as I could get it, but on the other hand I'd rather have a late payment more than no payment at all!

James

 

[joelpope]

another Barry "truth".... as posted on AZ

Independent Event
A Statement from Matchroom Sport
In the recent Run Out Radio broadcast with Mr Barry Berhman, there were certain statements made by Mr Behrman about Matchroom Sport and how it goes about paying players competing in its three pool events, the World Pool Masters, the World Cup of Pool and the Mosconi Cup.

For the avoidance of any doubt, Matchroom Sport does NOT pay players at its events 30 days after their conclusion. Furthermore, none of our events are broadcast on a pay-per-view basis, nor do we go around collecting checks from broadcasters in order to pay the players.

Matchroom Sport is a large business encompassing ten sports with a multi-million dollar turnover and as such we have many large, long-term, multi-year broadcast contracts in place with TV stations around the world.

To be absolutely clear, we generally pay early round losers in cash at the venue wherever practical. All other players are paid on return to our offices by international transfer which will take up to five working days for the money to arrive in the recipients bank accounts.

By Luke Riches - Matchroom Sport - 2011-07-12

 

[mymosconi]

There is only one side of the fence!

This is a no brainer. For years there have been alot of tournaments where the money is short, not paid, or even stolen. Without the money, the tournament is not going to happen. With that said, if there is ANY money that hasn't been paid or the payout is not clear, you have to side with the players. The players and their backers have to pay their nut and it's not cheap. Hold your ground guys!

 

[Georgia Boy]

Thanks for explanation about the poll, Jason. I've won $100 playing pool before, but it was a long time ago.

I think they may be right about one thing, though, and that is that we do have a lot of social shooters, amateurs, league players, and shortstops on our forum. The pros rarely post, as most of us know.

I'm very familiar with both sides of the fence. Having traveled the pro tournament trail for multiple years, I saw up front and close how difficult it is. You can forget about having a decent job. When you get home, at least for me, it takes me a few days to recover. All the driving and lack of sleep takes its toll on you. And instead of making money when you're out there competing, more times than not, you're spending money which you can't break even on unless you win, place, or show in the tournament.

Oh, one more thing. Unless you have an understanding wife or girlfriend or husband or boyfriend, be prepared to have little to no family life. Living out of a suitcase is where you'll be the majority of your life. Drugs and hookers are commonplace at some pool events. I hate to say it, but it's the damn truth, having seen it with my own eyes. To some players, this wouldn't matter, but to others, it's an occupational hazard.

For the hardcore pool players who try this lifestyle, they eat fast food to save money, which is not healthy. They have been known to sleep in cars all night to save one night of expense, as well as sharing hotel rooms with three other pool players, sometimes sleeping on the floor.

I am happy to see the support for Barry, and I'm also equally as happy to see the support for the ABP. This to me shows that there's hope that they can work together and remedy this problem.

Jam
Good post and while I agree that there is always hope that things can be remedied I am not sure this one can be in time for everything to go ahead as 'normal'.

What I would like is for both parties to sit down at the same table and formulate a plan that works for both sides, they are probably also both going to have to compromise a little. I would then like that plan to be communicated out to everyone in a press release scripted in agreement by both parties and lets move forward. Maybe that meeting needs to be facilitated by someone outside the two camps, perhaps someone outside the Pool Tournament World?

I have my own theories on what the issues are here, but I do not have concrete eveidence for that, so I will keep them to myself. I just want the US Open to go ahead and for both sides to be happy with the outcome.

Oh and by the way yes I have won more than a $100 playing pool for those sceptics out there

 

[chefjeff]

From the NPR Quotes thread:

---The Economist

Golf is also attractive to sponsors because of its values. Players are expected to call penalties on themselves, shake hands with rivals and 'act like gentlemen'. Footballers routinely cheat; golfers, even those who cheat on their wives, would not dream of it. According to the PGA Tour, over 90% of fans see golfers as 'positive role models'.


Jeff Livingston

 

[JAM]

From the NPR Quotes thread:

---The Economist

Golf is also attractive to sponsors because of its values. Players are expected to call penalties on themselves, shake hands with rivals and 'act like gentlemen'. Footballers routinely cheat; golfers, even those who cheat on their wives, would not dream of it. According to the PGA Tour, over 90% of fans see golfers as 'positive role models'.


Jeff Livingston

And then there was Tiger.

 

[Neil]

.............

 

[pt109]

And then there was Tiger.

Tiger plays the game honorably.
And most of his game was played at a very high level.

..but he wasn't very good at driving...

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

If the added money is eliminated, it becomes a rather picayune event. Barry, rightfully, does not want that.

It appears that the problem is not an overall imbalance between revenues and expenses but, rather, just a timing issue. This should be a simple matter to resolve.

The more desirable solution is for Barry to develop the working capital needed to pay the prizes at the conclusion of the event. It's not clear whether he has exhausted all possibilities for this (as opposed to just being unwilling to do it).

The less desirable solution is for Barry to simply, and publicly, reset the expectations regarding the payment dates for the prize money. Several alternatives have already been suggested for this. One I'll propose is to commit to paying positions 5-96 (assuming a field of 256) in full at the event (as was done last year). For the top 4 positions, pay them at the event an amount that is at least as much as 5th/6th place receives ($6,000 last year) and defer the balance for an appropriate number of weeks. This will give the top 4 finishers plenty of money to cover their current, and near-term future, expenses. And it would have deferred up to $49,000 last year. The actual numbers would be set based on Barry's knowledge (as early as possible before the event) of what is really needed. Contractual penalties should result if the deferred amounts are not paid on time.

I can't imagine the ABP would rather boycott the event than consent to pre-arranged partial deferrals for the top 4 finishers. If the ABP rejects some such solution, I'd conclude that either they are foolish or they are not disclosing other factors relevant to this situation. If Barry rejects some such solution, I'd conclude that he has no intention of guaranteeing the prize fund in any manner, but intends to leave a revenue-shortfall risk entirely on the players rather than on himself.

We can all learn some lessons from the "living beyond our means" debt issues that governments like Greece, Italy and the U.S. are experiencing.

I'd rather see the US Open become a picayune event if it means that it can remain solvent and pay out the prize fund in a timely manner. Perhaps eliminating the 40K added to the prize fund is too extreme but it does need to be scaled back to a level that ensures that it can be paid out without Barry being overextended. Other ideas Barry should consider are to increase revenue with modest increases in the gate ticket fees and the player's entry fees.

The smartest thing the ABP can do right now is to immediately cancel their extortionist boycott of the US Open and reopen their negotiations with Barry. If the ABP players can't or won't give Barry their support, then he should cancel the 2012 US Open as the event can't be successful without them.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Jeff, I don't doubt that someone said that, or that they even believe that. I do doubt the actual validity of it though. I don't think 90% of the people are actually that naive.

They aren't naive. It's actually fact, Neil. The golfers of the PGA and LPGA are amongst the highest respected athletes in the world, in terms of honesty and integrity.

What other sport can you see a player call a foul on themselves that would cost them $200k? Earl wouldn't call a foul on himself if it cost him a nickel.

Phil Mickelson is one of the most popular athletes in the world. Tiger is a role model, despite his transgressions. There are more golf charity tournaments, and monies made for scholarships and other constructive organizations than any other sport in the world.

Golf is all about honesty and integrity. You keep your own score. And everyone in your foursome will know if you're a cheater, or you're honest, after the first 3 holes. It's why a lot of business deals are worked out on golf courses. I cannot even think of the last time I took a customer to the pool hall............