accu stats stats

E

enzo

Banned
i've heard some very, very interesting stats that pat flemming has calculated. i don't know if this is accurate, but in one match i have the commentators say in hill-hill matches the breaker lost 70% of the time.

the reason for my post is i wanted to find more overall stats like this (ie stats over a long period of time, rather than for a single match or tournament). so, if anyone knows ANY general stats like this, and are fairly sure they are correct, post them. i personally would love to see who has the least amount of cue ball errors over an extended period of time. i think if we were to get accurate stats on this many people would be surprised (names like andam would be near the top imo). i'd also like to see breaking stats. what is the percentage of racks breakers win vs non-breakers... anything like that (imo a lot closer to 50-50 than people would think, but im not sure).

maybe all this stuff is kept top secret so only a priveledged few (eg incardona) can always be assured of having the nuts. any thoughts and especially any accurate stats appreciated.
 
Good question Enzo. I wonder if anyone has kept historicals on player averages.


I am also very interested to know the method which accustats ratings are compiled. Alot of times I am watching someone play in a tournament and wonder to myself, "What is the accustats rating that this guy is playing at?".
 
uwate said:
Good question Enzo. I wonder if anyone has kept historicals on player averages.


I am also very interested to know the method which accustats ratings are compiled. Alot of times I am watching someone play in a tournament and wonder to myself, "What is the accustats rating that this guy is playing at?".
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The Accu-stats calculation method can be found on their website, in Pdf file.

I don't think pool is as organized as all that. I'd be surprised if they keep tabs on individual players' stats. That would require a lot of time, energy, and money! That's why the NBA can do it! They got people who's job is to compile statistics ONLY.

I know there's some general statistics out there... Like, traditionally, the winners of the premier tournaments in the world run out from their own break 30% of the time.

I heard that statistic from many knowledgeable mouths, but have never seen it on paper, or anything.
 
A friend in San Diego calculates his accu-stats when he plays sometimes.

He also kept track of breaker win % on a number of accu-stat tapes and said the breaker lost most of the time. He said the break wasn't an advantage.

I told him about the Varner - Sigel match here the wing ball went in 20 times in a row. Sigel actually offered Nick two games on the wire if he could have the break at hill-hill (tourney director wouldn't allow it).

I could see how if a table is breaking tough, no dead balls, than the break isn't much of an advantage for most people. I don't know anyone who wouldn't prefer to break when the wing ball is flying straight in.

When you factor in the scratches, breaks with no balls made and easy run-outs left, the break overall isn't as big an advantage as some people think.
 
bud green said:
When you factor in the scratches, breaks with no balls made and easy run-outs left, the break overall isn't as big an advantage as some people think.
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I very much agree with that.

I was hoping this thread would take off, i really wanted to know what some of these stats indicated. I guess there just aren't many people that have the information. Too bad.
 
I wrote to Phil Capelle and asked him this:


We on AZBilliards.com Forums are recently discussing statistics. I was hoping to find more in your archive section, but it is not up yet.

Would you be willing to stop by and share some of your knowledge with us?

The post in question can be found here:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=28334

Thanks in advance for any response. We love your stuff!
 
Thank You Phil Capelle

Well, he wrote back fast. LOL

Here is what he sent me:

Hi Donovan,

Thanks for writing and for the kind comments. I enjoy visiting AZB's main forum and only wish I had time to jump in and join you and your buddies. I have been planning to publish a detailed report on my 500 Game Study, but since the project has been on hold for so long (I'm finishing another book now) I decided AZB would be a good place to release the information you requested.

Best Wishes to you and your friends at AZB
Phil Capelle
Billiards Press

Number of Turns in a Game of Nine Ball

The 500 Game Study

1 141 28.2% Breaker wins

2 127 25.4

3 74 14.8 Breaker wins

4 59 11.8

5 47 9.4 Breaker wins

6 18 3.6

7 7 1.4 Breaker wins

8 3 .6

9 10 2.0 Breaker wins

10 7 1.4

11 3 .6 Breaker wins

12 0 .0

13 3 .6 Breaker wins

14 0 .0

15 0 .0

16 1 .2
======================================
Thanks Phil, we will look forward to your new book!
 
That info should be expected I guess. I cant see how your suppose to be winner if you give your opponent a dozen opportunities a game to get to the table.
 
Donovan said:
Well, he wrote back fast. LOL

Here is what he sent me:

Hi Donovan,

Thanks for writing and for the kind comments. I enjoy visiting AZB's main forum and only wish I had time to jump in and join you and your buddies. I have been planning to publish a detailed report on my 500 Game Study, but since the project has been on hold for so long (I'm finishing another book now) I decided AZB would be a good place to release the information you requested.

Best Wishes to you and your friends at AZB
Phil Capelle
Billiards Press

Number of Turns in a Game of Nine Ball

The 500 Game Study

1 141 28.2% Breaker wins

2 127 25.4

3 74 14.8 Breaker wins

4 59 11.8

5 47 9.4 Breaker wins

6 18 3.6

7 7 1.4 Breaker wins

8 3 .6

9 10 2.0 Breaker wins

10 7 1.4

11 3 .6 Breaker wins

12 0 .0

13 3 .6 Breaker wins

14 0 .0

15 0 .0

16 1 .2
======================================
Thanks Phil, we will look forward to your new book!
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Nice, thanks for the help Phil and Donovan.

So, if i'm reading the stats right, the breaker wins 57% of the time and the non breaker 43%. So the break is worth maybe 1.5 games in a race to 11.... somewhere in that area (correct me if i'm wrong). Well, at least we know the break is an advantage. That makes sense, all the best players always seem to want to break if given the choice.

Wonder why that stat doesn't seem to jive with the hill-hill break stat. Maybe it's becasue people often over-amp on the break hill-hill, i know i do.

Cool, keep the stats comin if anybody has em.
 
If that data was taken from a winner breaks format, then the breaker wins stat will be distorted toward the winner.

The reason is that in a winner breaks format, the better players will be breaking more often.
 
enzo said:
... maybe all this stuff is kept top secret so only a priveledged few (eg incardona) can always be assured of having the nuts. any thoughts and especially any accurate stats appreciated.
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Accu-stats started as a monthly newsletter that had all sorts of statistics from pretty much all the major pool tournaments. Kicking accuracy, balls on the break, safety success, ....

I think it existed in that form for about four years. The videotaping was started as an aid to taking the statistics especially when there were not enough trained watchers for all the tournament tables

Efren Reyes was featured on the front cover of one of first editions when he won at Red's in Houston. The name under the picture was Cesar Morales, as I recall.

I don't know if there has ever been a republication of those newsletters. I have nearly two complete sets if anyone is interested in seeing some.

In one of the tournaments, I think Jean Balukas had the highest TPA -- she was playing in a lot of the "men's" tournaments at that time.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I don't know if there has ever been a republication of those newsletters. I have nearly two complete sets if anyone is interested in seeing some.
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Are you willing to scan in some pages and post them? I would be very interested in seeing them, and i'm almost sure others who have posted on this thread would as well (let Bob know if this is in fact true).

Do they give stats like I was mentioning above, that is, for overall performances for say a year or more, and not just for a single tournament?

Thanks for all the posts everyone.
 
Yes, Bob would love to see some of that kind of stuff. That has got to be interesting!
 
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