ACS takes big blow, BCA Prevails!

J

JohnBCA

Registered
This message was just forwarded to me and I thought I would share it with you. The message reads loud and clear. The players will NOT submit to ultimatums from the ACS!


Hello

BCA Pool leagues in Oregon, Washington and Idaho area,
The Western BCA Pool Players Association members decided to stay with BCA.
The rush to a decision to go ACS wasn’t taken lightly. Many people
researched and took up the issues. Some of the issues were:

1) It wasn’t critical to change affiliation now. People believed that BCA
Pool Leagues and Mr. Griffin should be given a chance first. If Mark
Griffin doesn’t deliver then they can change to some other league at any
time. Changing would be no problem, especially when they could have more
time to decide. They felt it likely Mr. Griffin would do a good job.

2) Our Association President lent our regional association name, aligned his
association credentials to ASC, and became a board member before the
membership approved his actions. The membership and board felt this was not serving the local membership he was elected to protect. This happened
nationally where some association presidents acted before they asked the
players and league operators who support them.

3) People thought the ACS organization was premature in trying to take over existing leagues and their assets.

4) The ACS dual-sanctioning policy during this difficult period of time
reflected against them. The players who were put in this terrible situation
viewed that policy as selfish and inflexible.

5) The concept of non-profit versus for-profit was not crucial as either
could be run more efficiently than the other and the players just want to
play pool.

It is true all BCA players around the world are being asked to take sides
now. Their choices were created by a handful of people rising out of a most
unfortunate decision made by the BCA Trade Association. Given time and full
information, they will make relatively good choices. Common sense most
times prevails over blind loyalty to any issue.

Andrew Monstis
Oregon Pool League Operator
 
Another significant development that has gone relatively unnoticed of late, is that judging by Chris’s dream the recruiting of the ACS have apparently attracted The Sandman to sign on with their camp.

( you gotta read this! )
http://www.americancuesports.org/dream.html

Only time will tell if they can land other storybook heavy hitters:

- The Tooth Fairy could leave the BCA under their pillow

- The Easter Bunny could hide the BCA in an Easter egg

- Santa Claus could wrap the BCA up with a big bow and put it under their christmas tree

cheers
 
Last edited:
JohnBCA said:
This message was just forwarded to me and I thought I would share it with you. The message reads loud and clear. The players will NOT submit to ultimatums from the ACS!


Hello

BCA Pool leagues in Oregon, Washington and Idaho area,
The Western BCA Pool Players Association members decided to stay with BCA.
The rush to a decision to go ACS wasn’t taken lightly. Many people
researched and took up the issues. Some of the issues were:

1) It wasn’t critical to change affiliation now. People believed that BCA
Pool Leagues and Mr. Griffin should be given a chance first. If Mark
Griffin doesn’t deliver then they can change to some other league at any
time. Changing would be no problem, especially when they could have more
time to decide. They felt it likely Mr. Griffin would do a good job.

2) Our Association President lent our regional association name, aligned his
association credentials to ASC, and became a board member before the
membership approved his actions. The membership and board felt this was not serving the local membership he was elected to protect. This happened
nationally where some association presidents acted before they asked the
players and league operators who support them.

3) People thought the ACS organization was premature in trying to take over existing leagues and their assets.

4) The ACS dual-sanctioning policy during this difficult period of time
reflected against them. The players who were put in this terrible situation
viewed that policy as selfish and inflexible.

5) The concept of non-profit versus for-profit was not crucial as either
could be run more efficiently than the other and the players just want to
play pool.

It is true all BCA players around the world are being asked to take sides
now. Their choices were created by a handful of people rising out of a most
unfortunate decision made by the BCA Trade Association. Given time and full
information, they will make relatively good choices. Common sense most
times prevails over blind loyalty to any issue.

Andrew Monstis
Oregon Pool League Operator
Click to expand...

Not a big surprise. I think this is the first of others to follow in the coming days and weeks. The whole appraoch by the ACS smacks of desperation. And some State Association Presidents will soon find out that they should check their ego's at the door, as the players they pretend to represent, will make their voices heard and remind them who really runs the show.

Canuck

PS. The above is my personal opinion and is not meant to interupt the constant flow of misinformation and scare tactics that the ACS likes to use.
 
After a discussion on modestobilliards.com website it is pretty much concensus that the Modesto BCA League will remain BCA. After researching the matter thoroughly it seems that Mark Griffin is the only party that didn't actively screw pool players. We look forward to continued positive experiences with the BCA league organization and we'll see you on the tables!.....................Marc Swisher
 
We just had our awards night tonight for the local BCA league that I play on. It was announced that our system would remain BCA and that all but one of the local Arizona leagues was going to either dual sanction or remain BCA.

Mike
 
The info I have been receiving in the past month from several league operators and people affiliated with the league operators is all pro BCA. Several people in Vegas told me they did not like the way all this came about and would remain a BCA player until something actually happens to the league. Sam
 
breakup said:
Another significant development that has gone relatively unnoticed of late, is that judging by Chris’s dream the recruiting of the ACS have apparently attracted The Sandman to sign on with their camp.

( you gotta read this! )
http://www.americancuesports.org/dream.html

Only time will tell if they can land other storybook heavy hitters:

- The Tooth Fairy could leave the BCA under their pillow

- The Easter Bunny could hide the BCA in an Easter egg

- Santa Claus could wrap the BCA up with a big bow and put it under their christmas tree


cheers
Click to expand...


It's the fact that they would put stupid ass stuff like this on their website that makes me doubt the leadership.

Nice.

John
www.cuecaserepair.com
 
JohnBCA said:
This message was just forwarded to me and I thought I would share it with you. The message reads loud and clear. The players will NOT submit to ultimatums from the ACS!


Hello

BCA Pool leagues in Oregon, Washington and Idaho area,
The Western BCA Pool Players Association members decided to stay with BCA.
The rush to a decision to go ACS wasn’t taken lightly. Many people
researched and took up the issues. Some of the issues were:

1) It wasn’t critical to change affiliation now. People believed that BCA
Pool Leagues and Mr. Griffin should be given a chance first. If Mark
Griffin doesn’t deliver then they can change to some other league at any
time. Changing would be no problem, especially when they could have more
time to decide. They felt it likely Mr. Griffin would do a good job.

2) Our Association President lent our regional association name, aligned his
association credentials to ASC, and became a board member before the
membership approved his actions. The membership and board felt this was not serving the local membership he was elected to protect. This happened
nationally where some association presidents acted before they asked the
players and league operators who support them.

3) People thought the ACS organization was premature in trying to take over existing leagues and their assets.

4) The ACS dual-sanctioning policy during this difficult period of time
reflected against them. The players who were put in this terrible situation
viewed that policy as selfish and inflexible.

5) The concept of non-profit versus for-profit was not crucial as either
could be run more efficiently than the other and the players just want to
play pool.

It is true all BCA players around the world are being asked to take sides
now. Their choices were created by a handful of people rising out of a most
unfortunate decision made by the BCA Trade Association. Given time and full
information, they will make relatively good choices. Common sense most
times prevails over blind loyalty to any issue.

Andrew Monstis
Oregon Pool League Operator
Click to expand...


What Andrew failed to mention was the vote was 36 to 34 to stay BCA out of a possible 101 votes. I hand it to the mostly Washington State BCA Camp for being well organized but of the 2461 past members of the WBPPA, 1500 formed a new ACS state organization and will be announcing tournament dates next week.
Eleven years ago the majority of these Oregon players (now ACS leagues) left the VNEA over issues of how the leagues were run and formed under the BCA a non-profit organization for regional events. We like the non-profit status and board of directors approach to running tournaments. Voices are heard, votes are made and the republic is served. But more important is that a for profit organization cannot be recognized by the US Olympic Committee as the sanctioning body of a sport and the prestige that comes from that recognition. Not whether one is more efficient than the other. Mr. Monstis runs the VNEA leagues in Portland as well as a BCA league and doesn't understand this for some reason.

Craig Arnold
Washington ACS league operator
 
The players just want to play. Plain and simple. Regardless if it is a profit or a nonprofit organization, they really could give a hoot.

What they don't like is being given ultimatums as the ACS has continued to do. The Duel sanctioning as being conducted by the ACS, is like how we acted when we were children "If your his friend you can't be my friend" How flipping childish!

AND, Mr. Arnold, since you seem to be a loyal spokes person for the group, answer this:

Why didn't John Lewis who was employed by the BCA for 14 years at a salary of $70,000 per year, do his job then? You spew this jargon regarding the "Olympic Committee" what the heck did we pay him to do for all those years?

Now answer this: If the sport of billiards was considered as a candidate for the "Olympics" who do you think would be eligible to participate? It sure wouldn't be anyone from the BCA, ACS, APA, VNEA or other. IT WOULD BE THE PRO'S THAT WOULD GO! And, that's another can of worms!

This is just ANOTHER campaign promise in this disgruntled ex employee whisper campaign.

And, that whole dream thing on the ACS website. Have you read it? If not read it! It's immature and idiotic. Are these the people you represent? Is this how YOU want to be represented? Let's see how much "Prestige" (as you like to use) you get from that tid bit! How much do you think people will take YOU seriously when you represent foolish nonsense as this?

Mr. Arnold, THINK before you speak! Think about what you are trying to sell us! I am not trying to annoy or attack you in any fashion. I just hope that you understand how YOU come accross.

John Simmons
Overland, Co
 
JohnBCA said:
The players just want to play. Plain and simple. Regardless if it is a profit or a nonprofit organization, they really could give a hoot.
...

And, that whole dream thing on the ACS website. Have you read it? If not read it! It's immature and idiotic. Are these the people you represent? Is this how YOU want to be represented? Let's see how much "Prestige" (as you like to use) you get from that tid bit! How much do you think people will take YOU seriously when you represent foolish nonsense as this?
Click to expand...



I will play in any league that looks good to me.
But the ACS is looking mighty similar to TAP.
They both seem to think the way to attract players is to "dog" all
other leagues.

If they simply promoted pool they could get a much better image.

Whitey
 
Craig Arnold posted said:
But more important is that a for profit organization cannot be recognized by the US Olympic Committee as the sanctioning body of a sport and the prestige that comes from that recognition.
Click to expand...

Craig,
I fail to understand how weekly players would consider this more important. Please explain.

Olympic consideration includes a lot more than 'non-profit' status.
It includes:
1. National competition (open to all competitors, from any league association and/or the PROS)
2. Standardized rules
3. Recognized as the accepted ruling association for the sport. (I doubt that this will happen in our lifetime)
4. Particpate in the International PanAm games (yet to accept Pocket Billiards and is in fact reducing sports from the events)

And the PROS will be the ones to go to the Olympics, NOT the ACS members.
 
Tom In Cincy said:
Craig,
I fail to understand how weekly players would consider this more important. Please explain.

Olympic consideration includes a lot more than 'non-profit' status.
It includes:
1. National competition (open to all competitors, from any league association and/or the PROS)
2. Standardized rules
3. Recognized as the accepted ruling association for the sport. (I doubt that this will happen in our lifetime)
4. Particpate in the International PanAm games (yet to accept Pocket Billiards and is in fact reducing sports from the events)

And the PROS will be the ones to go to the Olympics, NOT the ACS members.
Click to expand...



National can take many forms just how athaletes are picked and who plays would have to relate to the Olympic standards. Pool has 50 years of catching up to do and may never be in the Olympics. Look at Bowling who has been turned down for its third time. They are way better organized, much larger, have been recognized by the US Olympic committee since 1979. By all Olympic standards they should be incuded but they are waiting for the IOC to expell an exiting event because their is no room for more events.
On Monday the ACS announced it was approved as the sanctioning body of pool for the National Congress of State Games, 39 State associations bi-annually send the top three finishers in each sport or game to the US Games (an amatuer event). The various States have a variety of corporate sponsors to help players with expenses they can't afford. The boards of these States typically have political figures on them as well as corporate heads. Being involved in this gives us more access to corporate funding and positive press releses. To make this happen a State ACS association will need to contact the board of their particular State Games association and offer (volunteer) their time and service to organize the competition to qualify players. Take the time to check out your States association or a state near you.
2- The Standardized rules are the WPA (World Pool Association) rules you all lovingly refer to as BCA Rules are the World Standardized Rules. (Any changes you would like to those rules should be directed to Mr Jewitt as he is the 2005 reviewer of the rules. Do include an argument for the rule change.) Both the BCA Pool Leagues and ACS subscribe to them. As the WPA is recognized by the IOC as the world sanctioning body of pool/billiards.
3- Since the BCA Board of Directors would not let the Professional Players it appointed to the Board last year sit in on any meetings of the BCA this year the US Olympic committee rejected their current bid to be recognized and were told to reaply in 2007. If the ACS can survive two years I would bet on WPA recognition as the sanctioning body and US Olympic recognition within two years of that if not sooner. Then the real work begins. We will need associations in every state, country and continent (again look at how bowling has organized).
4-First I heard the the Pan-Am games was trying to reduce in size. I'll have to look into it. We will never see a pool player in the Olympics in our life time but we may see the Pan-Am games. First you have to have US Olympic recognition to be accepted. Second you have to draw people to watch. If they perceive you as popular you will gain a spot in the Pan-Am games. The big question is will we continue a spot in the World Games, if so then why not the Pan-Am games.
5- The pros will be a part of the ACS and will make up 20% of the ACS Board of Directors as required by USOC standards. I am not familiar with the standards of selection but I would think competition would be a prerequisite in the selection process to being named to the US Billard Olympic Team. If you can beat the pros then you might be on the team?

Craig
 
JohnBCA said:
The players just want to play. Plain and simple. Regardless if it is a profit or a nonprofit organization, they really could give a hoot.

What they don't like is being given ultimatums as the ACS has continued to do. The Duel sanctioning as being conducted by the ACS, is like how we acted when we were children "If your his friend you can't be my friend" How flipping childish!

AND, Mr. Arnold, since you seem to be a loyal spokes person for the group, answer this:

Why didn't John Lewis who was employed by the BCA for 14 years at a salary of $70,000 per year, do his job then? You spew this jargon regarding the "Olympic Committee" what the heck did we pay him to do for all those years?

Now answer this: If the sport of billiards was considered as a candidate for the "Olympics" who do you think would be eligible to participate? It sure wouldn't be anyone from the BCA, ACS, APA, VNEA or other. IT WOULD BE THE PRO'S THAT WOULD GO! And, that's another can of worms!

This is just ANOTHER campaign promise in this disgruntled ex employee whisper campaign.

And, that whole dream thing on the ACS website. Have you read it? If not read it! It's immature and idiotic. Are these the people you represent? Is this how YOU want to be represented? Let's see how much "Prestige" (as you like to use) you get from that tid bit! How much do you think people will take YOU seriously when you represent foolish nonsense as this?

Mr. Arnold, THINK before you speak! Think about what you are trying to sell us! I am not trying to annoy or attack you in any fashion. I just hope that you understand how YOU come accross.

John Simmons
Overland, Co
Click to expand...



I am sure we all try to think before we speak (or write), I know you do and so do I.

When the ACS formed they adopted the rules that the BCA had operated under. As of Thursday at a Board meeting full Dual Sanctioning was approved.
Personally for the last 8 years I have fought dual sanctioning the BCA with APA, TAP and VNEA because it creates an unfair advantage to the APA, TAP or VNEA charterholders over a BCA League Operator. The BCA always was open to USPPA dual sanctioning. This matter of dual sanctioning was an area Mr. Lewis and I disagree on, John was all for it. But since Mr Griffin changed the BCA policy it became the hot potatoe issue. So now the players have what they want, dual sanctioning in both leagues.

I believe John Lewis always tried to do his job but he had to respond to the wishes of the BCA Board also. We gave them (the BCA) our money, they pay him. John was asked by Mark Griffin to run the BCA Pool Leagues, John respectfully declined. Both men have great respect for each other, see articles at www.onthebreaknews.com for May and June. Both respond to questions from the editor.
As to what John helped acomplish. The BCA league grew from less than 10,000 to 63,000. The 8 Ball championship grew to 9000+ and over a million payout. It's not just a tournament anymore it's a social event. John sits on the Board of the WPA and helped get a spot in the World Games. Other things might have been possible we will see what the ACS can accomplish with his help.

As to your second question I have answered it in another piece of this thread below.

Lastly I am not sure which portion of the ACS web page is immature and idiotic in your opinion?

Craig
 
From a BCA players point of view (mine)...

Most of my fellow players know nothing about the BCA sale. Many have played APA and BCA, but prefer BCA. We like BCA because you get to play all of the players on the other team, we play on two tables if possible which allows us to go home earlier, and the handicap system is more accurate as to each teams abilities (no advantage to sandbagging). That is all there is to it!
 
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