Actual Brunswick Gold Crown iii vs Brunswick Centurion review

Konrad

Your wushu is weak!
I see a lot of you are stuck on build quality and not playability. It makes sense that a better built table will hold up better over time. But how much time? My Centurion has straight rails and no frame sag and it’s over 20years old. it seems Toledo and a few others are the only ones who really get what is being compared. The rest of you are stuck on build quality over playability.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I see a lot of you are stuck on build quality and not playability. It makes sense that a better built table will hold up better over time. But how much time? My Centurion has straight rails and no frame sag and it’s over 20years old. it seems Toledo and a few others are the only ones who really get what is being compared. The rest of you are stuck on build quality over playability.
You're stuck on not realizing most of the time build quality equals playability and provides superior playbility over time. The inferior frame of the lessor Brunswick models will fail much sooner than the Gold Crown frame. The Gold Crown frame has its weaknesses but it has less weaknesses than the other Brunswick models.
 

Konrad

Your wushu is weak!
So anyway here is the review on playability. This is on a Centurion vs a GC3. For people on a budget. Around here you can’t pick up a GC3 for less than $1500-2000 and you can find Centurions for around half of that. Mine cost me $900 and another $1300 for simonis cloth, new superspeed cushions and setup fees. Yes I know as some mentioned I should have had all cushions replaced, but I only had 2 done. I don’t see much if any difference on the 2 new rails from the old ones. Sounds like once the cloth gets broken in there might be a difference. Right now rails play fine. So a centurion with a normal setup will cost around the same amount as GC without a setup. Is the GC3 worth an extra $1000?


Both tables have superspeeds on them. GC has 2 piece side rails, C has 1 piece side rails. Even so, they bank exactly the same. I’ve been on the Centurion everyday lately. I couldn’t find a GC3 with superspeeds on it to compare because the GCs at red shoes in Alsip have all rails from that one guy who was making them on here. Some of you who have been to Red Shoes might not know that. I’ve read through a lot of mechanic posts and found the information over there. And I think those rails bank a tad shorter from when I was there. I don’t recall his name.he’s from Oswego Illinois or something like that. .So I jumped on a GC4 instead the other day at the Q bar and Grill(I guess my home spot). Threw some balls out. made my first 4-5 banks on that table. One was a 2 rail to the side. And played a couple hours on it. Exactly the same ball pattern as Centurion all night. GC3 is pretty much the same.

As mentioned by Rexus check rails on Centurion as they are prone to warping being one long piece. Mine are fine. But you never know.

If you bump the centurion you can get a very slight movement out of it. You don’t get that with a Gold Crown. Over time this might cause the Centurion to get out of level easier than a GC will.

The GC has a beefier frame than the C. This could cause C to sag over time easier than GC. My table’s frame has no sag. I had the table mechanic check for any sag on setup and he didn’t find any. Based on conditions table has been in, this is good to know.

Playing field. Both tables have the same exact playing field. Meaning same slates. They both level the same. Now once you get to GC4 I guess you get a leveling system, but we aren’t talking GC4’s. The GC3’s don’t have it. So it makes sense C and GC play exactly the same.

Now the key differences that actually affects/could affect some playability. GC and C both have pretty much the same width rails. The difference is the C rail is flat or boxy the GC3 has a slight downward angle towards outside. This could be a comfort thing more than actual play.

Both tables have pockets that are not flush to the table. No real difference on pockets except the corner castings around the pockets are pretty flush(with that downward angle I was talking) on GC3. The Centurion castings stick up a little and can interfere with your stroke. Also I need to add the GC pockets screw in while C pockets are nailed in. I epoxied the nail heads to keep them from popping. Rexus has a lot of insight and also mentioned earlier in this thread a popped nail could scrape or take a chunk out of your balls. Watch out on that one. I guess on Centurion you’ll want to check pockets every once in a while. So a little more pocket maintenance on a C.

I’m pretty sure the ball return is better on GC3. I’m not sure on this one, but I am pretty sure Centurion uses plastic return lines. Gold Crown has metal. I could be wrong. I have drop pockets. The drop pockets don’t hold a lot of balls btw. The GC also has the ball holder racks on one end of the table. You can’t get that with the C.

So if you are looking on a budget, I feel the Centurion is a good deal. Especially if you are looking to upgrade in the near future like I might be. You can still get good on it! It has playability almost on par to the “best” Brunswick of its time. Save that $1000.

I will tell you this though too. The GC3 is a superior table. Mostly because has all the bells and whistles. And you can set it and forget it while you’ll probably want to check level and pockets of a Centurion from time to time. Although I used to work at a hall and from time to time the GC pocket screws might loosen a bit. Unlike the C’s They are recessed and won’t hurt the balls before you catch it. If table is for long term install id probably go GC3 if I had to choose between the 2 tables.

Let me add a GC will probably sell easier than a C. Even with the higher price tag. As you can see by previous posts. A lot of people who play probably wouldn’t be interested in the Centurion. It’s Gold Crown all the way or nothing, or a Diamond.



One person posted something up a bit about playing feels better on GC. I do get what he was saying. It’s partially the atmosphere but when you bump a GC and it doesn’t budge it does feel like a better table. Maybe gives a person a little extra confidence. But that doesnt have any effect on your shot.
 
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rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So anyway here is the review on playability. This is on a Centurion vs a GC3. For people on a budget. Around here you can’t pick up a GC3 for less than $1500-2000 and you can find Centurions for around half of that. Mine cost me $900 and another $1300 for simonis cloth, new superspeed cushions and setup fees. Yes I know as some mentioned I should have had all cushions replaced, but I only had 2 done. I don’t see much if any difference on the 2 new rails from the old ones. Sounds like once the cloth gets broken in there might be a difference. Right now rails play fine. So a centurion with a normal setup will cost around the same amount as GC without a setup. Is the GC3 worth an extra $1000?

Both tables have superspeeds on them. GC has 2 piece side rails, C has 1 piece side rails. Even so, they bank exactly the same. I’ve been on the Centurion everyday lately. I couldn’t find a GC3 with superspeeds on it to compare because the GCs at red shoes in Alsip have all rails from that one guy who was making them on here. Some of you who have been to Red Shoes might not know that. I’ve read through a lot of mechanic posts and found the information over there. And I think those rails bank a tad shorter from when I was there. I don’t recall his name.he’s from Oswego Illinois or something like that. .So I jumped on a GC4 instead the other day at the Q bar and Grill(I guess my home spot). Threw some balls out. made my first 4-5 banks on that table. One was a 2 rail to the side. And played a couple hours on it. Exactly the same ball pattern as Centurion all night. GC3 is pretty much the same.

If you bump the centurion you can get a very slight movement out of it. You don’t get that with a Gold Crown. Over time this might cause the Centurion to get out of level easier than a GC will.

The GC has a beefier frame than the C. This could cause C to sag over time easier than GC. My table’s frame has no sag. I had the table mechanic check for any sag on setup and he didn’t find any. Based on conditions table has been in, this is good to know.

Playing field. Both tables have the same exact playing field. Meaning same slates. They both level the same. Now once you get to GC4 I guess you get a leveling system, but we aren’t talking GC4’s. The GC3’s don’t have it. So it makes sense C and GC play exactly the same.

Now the key differences that actually affects/could affect some playability. GC and C both have pretty much the same width rails. The difference is the C rail is flat or boxy the GC3 has a slight downward angle towards outside. This could be a comfort thing more than actual play.

Both tables have pockets that are not flush to the table. No real difference on pockets except the corner castings around the pockets are pretty flush(with that downward angle I was talking) on GC3. The Centurion castings stick up a little and can interfere with your stroke.

I’m pretty sure the ball return is better on GC3. I’m not sure on this one, but I am pretty sure Centurion uses plastic return lines. Gold Crown has metal. I could be wrong. I have drop pockets. The drop pockets don’t hold a lot of balls btw. The GC also has the ball holder racks on one end of the table. You can’t get that with the C.

So if you are looking on a budget, I feel the Centurion is a good deal. Especially if you are looking to upgrade in the near future like I might be. You can still get good on it! It has playability almost on par to the “best” Brunswick of its time. I will tell you this though too. One person posted something up a bit about playing feels better on GC. I do get what he was saying. It’s partially the atmosphere but when you bump a GC and it doesn’t budge it does feel like a better table. Maybe gives a person a little extra confidence. But that doesnt have any effect on your shot.
Any input on the pocket castings and pocket liners? Are the tacked in on the Centurion or does it have castings that accommodate screw in pocket liners? It doesn't affect playability, just curious.
 

Konrad

Your wushu is weak!
Any input on the pocket castings and pocket liners? Are the tacked in on the Centurion or does it have castings that accommodate screw in pocket liners? It doesn't affect playability, just curious.
I’ll add right now. I forgot about that one. Thanks Rexus. I just added a part that you mentioned on 1 piece rail also
 

Konrad

Your wushu is weak!
One thing I didn’t pay attention to on my review is jumping. Looking at the two frames the gold crown might be more true when jumping. Theres more SA of wood contacting underside of slats. Idk for sure but the Centurion might be a little more springy in middle when compared side by side.
 

ibuycues

I Love Box Cues
Silver Member
No it doesn't, in fact all it does is show the differences in how the table was made. You are just making the same statement as anyone else who has a Gold Crown
TFT
Nice try. I will assume you know what you are talking about, because you have worked on a lot of tables. Although I must admit, I am assuming, because I have not played on any table you’ve touched.

You are a bit brazen to assume you know why I made the comment I did. In fact, you are totally clueless as to why I made my comment, so I will also assume you made your comment about my post a little flippantly. It had nothing to do with the fact I own a Gold Crown 1. I own several tables. I also clearly understand the OP was making his points about playability of the C and GC.

My comment was primarily aimed toward the Gold Crown for its stature as the rugged industry workhorse it is known to be, that it is certainly better built in many ways, some of which could point toward better long term performance. Certainly the C is a nice table “for the money” but any good table mechanic is not going to go around saying the two tables are equal.
Nor am I.

All the best.
Will Prout
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
Nice try. I will assume you know what you are talking about, because you have worked on a lot of tables. Although I must admit, I am assuming, because I have not played on any table you’ve touched.

You are a bit brazen to assume you know why I made the comment I did. In fact, you are totally clueless as to why I made my comment, so I will also assume you made your comment about my post a little flippantly. It had nothing to do with the fact I own a Gold Crown 1. I own several tables. I also clearly understand the OP was making his points about playability of the C and GC.

My comment was primarily aimed toward the Gold Crown for its stature as the rugged industry workhorse it is known to be, that it is certainly better built in many ways, some of which could point toward better long term performance. Certainly the C is a nice table “for the money” but any good table mechanic is not going to go around saying the two tables are equal.
Nor am I.

All the best.
Will Prout

As much as I appreciate your great writing and how long winded you are. No one here ever said it was better than a GC.

Not once did I say it was equal... I SAID IT PLAYS VERY VERY CLOSE to a Gold Crown.......

THE TABLE PLAYS VERY VERY CLOSE TO A GC: PROVE ME WRONG WITH FACTS. I dont care how many expensive cues or tables you have.... You cant prove one plays better than the other, No disrespect, but, you are not providing a single fact or adding anything to the thread other than your "opinion", which in table mechanics , you have none. So, go back to what ever it is you are "collecting" until you have something FACTUAL to provide. GET YOUR STIMP METER OUT!!! :) Have a great day!!!

TFT
 

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trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
One thing I didn’t pay attention to on my review is jumping. Looking at the two frames the gold crown might be more true when jumping. Theres more SA of wood contacting underside of slats. Idk for sure but the Centurion might be a little more springy in middle when compared side by side.
Any of this is just going to far Konrad! You have done a great job IMO, I am done with the topic, I have spent far too much time on this now. I knew I would, that is why I waited for all the opinions to come out before I said anythng! I was actually very excited to see what people wrote, I knew no one would want to hear what I had to say,,,,,, errrrrbody wants to be RIGHT.

With the right mechanic, the table can be set up to play very very close to the GC, I am NOT stating its built as well or will last as long or is he best, JUST TO BE CLEAR>.. Have a great day AZ'Ber's!!

TFT
 

ibuycues

I Love Box Cues
Silver Member
As much as I appreciate your great writing and how long winded you are. No one here ever said it was better than a GC.

Not once did I say it was equal... I SAID IT PLAYS VERY VERY CLOSE to a Gold Crown.......

THE TABLE PLAYS VERY VERY CLOSE TO A GC: PROVE ME WRONG WITH FACTS. I dont care how many expensive cues or tables you have.... You cant prove one plays better than the other, No disrespect, but, you are not providing a single fact or adding anything to the thread other than your "opinion", which in table mechanics , you have none. So, go back to what ever it is you are "collecting" until you have something FACTUAL to provide. GET YOUR STIMP METER OUT!!! :) Have a great day!!!

TFT
For what it’s worth, we both agree that the Gold Crown is a superior table, but does cost more than the C, and is going up lately in price.
My first post on this thread was simply to acknowledge the superiority of the Gold Crown, not to tear down or diminish the C table or the OP’s thoughts in any way.

Then you felt the need to start hurling some insults around. That is fine, I now know you are the east end of a horse heading west, which likely sheds some insight on how good a businessman you really are. Maybe how good a mechanic you are as well. I really don’t like to interact with bums too often.

Yes, the C is good for the money and can play ok if set up well. No, it isn’t a Gold Crown.

All the best,
Will Prout
 
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ibuycues

I Love Box Cues
Silver Member
So anyway here is the review on playability. This is on a Centurion vs a GC3. For people on a budget. Around here you can’t pick up a GC3 for less than $1500-2000 and you can find Centurions for around half of that. Mine cost me $900 and another $1300 for simonis cloth, new superspeed cushions and setup fees. Yes I know as some mentioned I should have had all cushions replaced, but I only had 2 done. I don’t see much if any difference on the 2 new rails from the old ones. Sounds like once the cloth gets broken in there might be a difference. Right now rails play fine. So a centurion with a normal setup will cost around the same amount as GC without a setup. Is the GC3 worth an extra $1000?


Both tables have superspeeds on them. GC has 2 piece side rails, C has 1 piece side rails. Even so, they bank exactly the same. I’ve been on the Centurion everyday lately. I couldn’t find a GC3 with superspeeds on it to compare because the GCs at red shoes in Alsip have all rails from that one guy who was making them on here. Some of you who have been to Red Shoes might not know that. I’ve read through a lot of mechanic posts and found the information over there. And I think those rails bank a tad shorter from when I was there. I don’t recall his name.he’s from Oswego Illinois or something like that. .So I jumped on a GC4 instead the other day at the Q bar and Grill(I guess my home spot). Threw some balls out. made my first 4-5 banks on that table. One was a 2 rail to the side. And played a couple hours on it. Exactly the same ball pattern as Centurion all night. GC3 is pretty much the same.

As mentioned by Rexus check rails on Centurion as they are prone to warping being one long piece. Mine are fine. But you never know.

If you bump the centurion you can get a very slight movement out of it. You don’t get that with a Gold Crown. Over time this might cause the Centurion to get out of level easier than a GC will.

The GC has a beefier frame than the C. This could cause C to sag over time easier than GC. My table’s frame has no sag. I had the table mechanic check for any sag on setup and he didn’t find any. Based on conditions table has been in, this is good to know.

Playing field. Both tables have the same exact playing field. Meaning same slates. They both level the same. Now once you get to GC4 I guess you get a leveling system, but we aren’t talking GC4’s. The GC3’s don’t have it. So it makes sense C and GC play exactly the same.

Now the key differences that actually affects/could affect some playability. GC and C both have pretty much the same width rails. The difference is the C rail is flat or boxy the GC3 has a slight downward angle towards outside. This could be a comfort thing more than actual play.

Both tables have pockets that are not flush to the table. No real difference on pockets except the corner castings around the pockets are pretty flush(with that downward angle I was talking) on GC3. The Centurion castings stick up a little and can interfere with your stroke. Also I need to add the GC pockets screw in while C pockets are nailed in. I epoxied the nail heads to keep them from popping. Rexus has a lot of insight and also mentioned earlier in this thread a popped nail could scrape or take a chunk out of your balls. Watch out on that one. I guess on Centurion you’ll want to check pockets every once in a while. So a little more pocket maintenance on a C.

I’m pretty sure the ball return is better on GC3. I’m not sure on this one, but I am pretty sure Centurion uses plastic return lines. Gold Crown has metal. I could be wrong. I have drop pockets. The drop pockets don’t hold a lot of balls btw. The GC also has the ball holder racks on one end of the table. You can’t get that with the C.

So if you are looking on a budget, I feel the Centurion is a good deal. Especially if you are looking to upgrade in the near future like I might be. You can still get good on it! It has playability almost on par to the “best” Brunswick of its time. Save that $1000.

I will tell you this though too. The GC3 is a superior table. Mostly because has all the bells and whistles. And you can set it and forget it while you’ll probably want to check level and pockets of a Centurion from time to time. Although I used to work at a hall and from time to time the GC pocket screws might loosen a bit. Unlike the C’s They are recessed and won’t hurt the balls before you catch it. If table is for long term install id probably go GC3 if I had to choose between the 2 tables.

Let me add a GC will probably sell easier than a C. Even with the higher price tag. As you can see by previous posts. A lot of people who play probably wouldn’t be interested in the Centurion. It’s Gold Crown all the way or nothing, or a Diamond.



One person posted something up a bit about playing feels better on GC. I do get what he was saying. It’s partially the atmosphere but when you bump a GC and it doesn’t budge it does feel like a better table. Maybe gives a person a little extra confidence. But that doesnt have any effect on your shot.
This is a nice, comprehensive, reasoned analysis. Thanks for taking the time to put it together, it could well be helpful to others along the way.

Will Prout
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
That sums it up and what everyone has been saying all along. It's indisputable; it's fact. I'm not really sure how it ever became a debate.

No, maybe for you and "everyone", but, this sums it up for me: not one of you can prove a GC PLAYS Better than the OPS Centurion or Century.
Same cushions, slate and rail construction :) I can and have made BOTH of these tables play VERY VERY comparable to the Gold Crown. Over all, we all know a GC is better as its the flagship, but, that was: NEVER THE POINT OF WHAT KONRAD WAS PROVING. He did a very nice job on his review.

Thanks for all your time Konrad! I appreciate ya! I will battle ya for the "hot seat" anytime dude!!
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No, maybe for you and "everyone", but, this sums it up for me: not one of you can prove a GC PLAYS Better than the OPS Centurion or Century.
Same cushions, slate and rail construction :) I can and have made BOTH of these tables play VERY VERY comparable to the Gold Crown. Over all, we all know a GC is better as its the flagship, but, that was: NEVER THE POINT OF WHAT KONRAD WAS PROVING. He did a very nice job on his review.

Thanks for all your time Konrad! I appreciate ya! I will battle ya for the "hot seat" anytime dude!!
How can the rails be constructed the same if one has a one piece long rail and the other has a two piece long rail?

Yes, the C is good for the money and can play ok if set up well. No, it isn’t a Gold Crown.
You don't agree with this statement?

Before you answer, let me remind you...
This guy was just tryin to show people they could buy an affordable and easy table to buy... The Century and Centurion are both great for the money. I have worked and played on both. I have restored more GCs than I can count anymore, I know they are the best.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ibuycues is one of the most respected people in this little world we call pool/AZB.

He’s not a railbird talking with hear himself talk. He’s been around the block for probably 45-50 years.

He’s also one of the nicest most generous people here. He can walk the walk. When he says something bank on it. His opinion goes a long way.

Both are great boxes, one can play as good as the other. The mechanic is who determines that. As far as durability the GC’s are superior. Some models of the GC are better than others. The 2’s & 3’s being the worst the 1’s & 4’s being the best. The 5’s are ok. Idk about the 6’s yet as I have no experience with them yet. Prior to GC’s the centennials and anniversary’s were the premier tables. And a million years ago Klings.

Kindest regards
Fatboy😀😀
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
He won't answer you. He's done on this topic. He said so several times.
yup :) i waited a long time to say anything. :) i love playing the AZB game, I have been enjoying myself all day workng on a table, we are down here at our shop in SUNNY FLORIDA :)

TFT
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
ibuycues is one of the most respected people in this little world we call pool/AZB.

He’s not a railbird talking with hear himself talk. He’s been around the block for probably 45-50 years.

He’s also one of the nicest most generous people here. He can walk the walk. When he says something bank on it. His opinion goes a long way.

Both are great boxes, one can play as good as the other. The mechanic is who determines that. As far as durability the GC’s are superior. Some models of the GC are better than others. The 2’s & 3’s being the worst the 1’s & 4’s being the best. The 5’s are ok. Idk about the 6’s yet as I have no experience with them yet. Prior to GC’s the centennials and anniversary’s were the premier tables. And a million years ago Klings.

Kindest regards
Fatboy😀😀


I like that you speak so highly of him!

The topic of the tread was not that the table was better. It was that it could play similar and the guy was gonna review it from all aspects. I know the main focus was on how it plays. Thats it. I added my ACTUAL experience in setting up both the century and centurion and the rest of it is all opinion. I can prove what I say vs an opinion. Clear and easy to see the facts of the matter.

TFT
 

Konrad

Your wushu is weak!
That sums it up and what everyone has been saying all along. It's indisputable; it's fact. I'm not really sure how it ever became a debate.
I don’t know. A GC3 and Centurion were pretty close. Especially if a buyer didn’t realize how much more was put into the build. Maybe Brunswick felt that way too. And in came the GC4. I’m no mechanic, so from a consumer standpoint will say a GC4 is better than both. Those wider rails and flush pockets are sexy! And I’d almost be willing to bet the Centurion stayed the same when the GC4 came out to put a bit more noticeable distance between the models for the regular consumer.
 
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