Adjust...adjust my ass

GreekTycoon said:
This goes on and on until I'm about ready to throw a bucket of cold water on the two of them. I hear this stuff constantly. Everyone wants a lock-up game these days. I say spend the time practicing instead of whining, and if you?re getting a spot, any slight advantage should go the way of the person giving the spot. Just my $0.04...
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One year at the BC Open in Binghamton, NY Mike Zuglan and I sat in the tournament room after hours and listened to Grady, Billy Incardona, Weenie Beanie, Bucky Bell, and a few others going at it trying to make a game. It was hilarious for about half an hour, then started getting repetitive. Mike went to his room and I left about twenty minutes later, after it became apparent that nobody was going to play!
 
MinoInADixeCup said:
Guys I used to play with several years ago did something like that. Whoever was down got the break. When the coin got halfway around the table (playing per game, not sets), the losing player got the 8 ball, when it got all the way around, the 7 and 8. I never saw it adjusted more then that. It always worked out well, but everyone was friends and no one ever lost more then they could afford.
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That sounds like a great approach to "making it interesting" while keeping it friendly. But your last sentence forces me to make this comment, which I admit is drifting from the topic a little:

If anyone EVER loses more than they can afford, then they have bigger problems than the spot (i.e. don't take the rent money to the pool hall)!
 
Johnnyt said:
I will probably get some flaming for this but it has bothered me for many years. Two guy or gals want to play one another for say $200 a set 9-ball race to11. I play a little better than him most of the time. I give him the call-8 and beat him two sets in a row, but just buy one or two games each time.

Now he wants the call 7&8 for the same money. I see players giving in to this all the time. What am I suppose to do keep adding to his spot until he can beat me. WTF are we trying to get in each other's pockets or is the idea to try and break even at the end? Then why play for money? This kind of gunslinger mentality adjusting and adjusting until you need a gear that you get twice a year to chase and catch the nuts is another reason why pool players are and do die broke.

Some old timers say that's the code. That doesn't make one bit of good sense. When I played for Money I wasn't in the business of trying to give the guy the best of it, I wanted the best of it. Thanks for listening. Johnnyt
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It doesn't hurt to ask, but you don't have to accept. A fool and their money soon part.
 
I see it as two different scenarios, and either you are looking to stretch a "score" or you want a battle. Battles usually help your character more than pocketbook, scores help your bankroll more than your game.

If You've finally hooked that big fish and are trying to stretch the score, then get the nuts and raise the bet and the weight as needed to milk it as long as possible, shooting them into a coma and yourself into dead punch.

That's the theory anyway. I think too many apply it to every $20 bar bet and don't really want a battle.

If you want a battle, it takes heart on both sides, and a close game, for both that someone will have to rise up to get the better of. It may take several hours, or even several sessions.

I used to play a local room manager either 10-7 1-pocket, or two on the wire racing to 9 in 9-ball. This was where we ended up, after maybe 20 sessions. We rarely adjusted during a session.

We never played less than 6 hours, often more than 12, starting after he closed Sunday at Midnight, until after lunch the next day.

I usually won, but not very much. It was about the battle. He rarely quit and I had to something extraordinary to break his spirit that session. Like one night, out of the gate I beat him six sets in a row, he never won more than 3 games, (9-5 net score). I ran out from everywhere, I played smooth and solid for three solid hours, and it didn't phase him.

We battled another 6 hours that time, and I finished up only 5 sets.

The battles were good for me, beyond the $$$$ I won or lost.

On the other hand I was staking a buddy and matched up with the opponents stakehorse. Small pickins by the stories I hear on here, but they were playing $500 sets and he and I matched up for $50 race to 5 9-ball. I knew him, and I had the nuts even. I missed 2-3 times a game and still won 5-2. He asked to play banks, I declined and he aked to play one foul 8-ball for $50 a game.

I hate 8-ball, but knew I'd be stealing. I never ran more than 3 balls, and still won 5 in a row.

I offered weight, hoping to "stretch the score" but just a little. Offering something wild, throwing off the disguise, would've ruined any future score. He declined that time, but CONSOLED me on how I hadn't played bad, he just wasn't "on" that day.

I would have adjusted every et if that guy had wanted to keep playing. He had deep pockets, and no stroke. If I wanted a battle he was the wrong guy. But when the rent is due, he was a guy to look up and make happy with weight.

Am I making any sense??
 
mullyman said:
I don't gamble very often but when I do there is no weight given and none taken. I wouldn't care if I was going up against Efren Reyes himself, I don't want a spot. I couldn't beat Efren and I'm not trying to say I would even have a chance. All I'm saying is that I hate handicapping games. If you don't play well enough to beat someone then don't gamble with them. It's as simple as that. And if you want to play me, don't even think about asking for a spot because I won't even entertain the idea.
MULLY
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I'm with you Mully. To me (who rarely gambles), gambling is a way of saying "I have a lot of confidence in my game and I'll BET that I can beat you, straight up". Obviously this is not the way to make a living at pool:eek:

That said, I think weight serves a purpose to allow players who know each other (or know each other's games, at least) to match up with an "even" chance of winning. THEORETICALLY, if they each play their "normal game", they'll have a close match. If either player gets hot, or digs deep and finds more game, he'll be rewarded with the win. Using weight this way fits in with the spirit of honest competition, IMHO.

What I DON'T understand is players who try to hide their speed in order to get an unfair spot. That seems a lot like lying and the skill on the table now takes a back seat to the hustle. I guess that's just a different game for some.

Tom
 
Tom M said:
I'm with you Mully. To me (who rarely gambles), gambling is a way of saying "I have a lot of confidence in my game and I'll BET that I can beat you, straight up". Obviously this is not the way to make a living at pool:eek:

That said, I think weight serves a purpose to allow players who know each other (or know each other's games, at least) to match up with an "even" chance of winning. THEORETICALLY, if they each play their "normal game", they'll have a close match. If either player gets hot, or digs deep and finds more game, he'll be rewarded with the win. Using weight this way fits in with the spirit of honest competition, IMHO.

What I DON'T understand is players who try to hide their speed in order to get an unfair spot. That seems a lot like lying and the skill on the table now takes a back seat to the hustle. I guess that's just a different game for some.

Tom
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Yeah, I guess I should put my testicles back in and admit that when I play B players I give a handicap. I'm with you 100% on people of equal, or very close, skill level trying to get a spot. I won a house tournament at Michael's billiards back in 99, I think it was, and the guy I beat in the finals is a local pro level player and hard core gambler. Bucky Bell in case anyone from Cincinnati is reading this. Anyway, that was a Wednesday night and by Saturday when I got to Beechmont billiards way across town people knew who I was when I walked in and the cockroaches came crawling out of the corners for me. People I had never seen in my life were asking me to give them 10-6 in one pocket. I may be naive but I'm not stupid. What the hell were they thinking?

Look, I'll admit that if Bucky and I played all the time I would come out on the losing side of it. He's a really good player. But I'm not a beginner and if you leave me a chance I'm most likely going to get out. I had a good night against Bucky that night.
MULLY
 
Sorry guys. Now that I went back and read my first post I see where some took what I asked the wrong way. It wasn't me playing. It was a hypothetical situation.

All I should have said I guess was that it seems now a days as soon as someone sees you have even a VERY small advantage their asking for more pounds from you. I see that for the ones that understood what I was talking about (not easy after I reread it) agree that no other pounds should be given. Again sorry for the way I wrote it. Johnnyt
 
Now he wants the call 7&8 for the same money.

... I wasn't in the business of trying to give the guy the best of it, I wanted the best of it.
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Sounds like he thinks like you do. What's your beef?

pj
chgo
 
uwate said:
You get someone stuck and they are dogging it, alot of times you CAN give them more weight and take them smooth off. The biggest scores I have seen are when someone is willing to accomodate someone who is in go off mode. Often what is a spot that should be the nuts for the losing player, ends up being the reason they went completely bust.

Now if they ask for the same spot the next day...well its a different story.

About a year ago I played someone 9-6 1p for 7 hrs and came up one game @ 40/gm. My opponent unscrewed after 7 hrs and told me the game was out of line and he needed 10-6 or he wasnt playing me anymore. I think I hate that kind of Nit move ALOT more than when guys ask for more weight when they are going off.
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Your right about the biggest scores coming when the other guy thinks he has the nuts. Seen it many times.

Example: Scotty T. goes into bar and player that doesn't know Scotty starts whoofing that he will play for $20.00 a game with the last three. Scotty says bet $40.00 and you got the last four. Guy wins the flip and breaks and runs out the first two racks. Scotty stops the game and tells the guy that the spot doesn't look fair. Before he can explain futher, guy starts yelling that Scotty made the game and can't adjust back after only two games.

Scotty says, "No, you don't understand. I've had a chance to see you play now and to be honest, I don't think you have a chance with the last four. I'm going to give you the last five."

Guy still thought HE had the best of the game even after Scotty had all of his money.
 
Johnnyt said:
I like that Golden Rule. Johnnyt
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" get out like you got in" an old gamblers adage, some of us won't even leave a resturant by a different door !
btw my standard answer was always if you can't win QUIT.
some did some didn't.
 
I have a different view on this since I came up in a tough room at a young age, so I was the one getting weight rather than giving it. I learned real quick how to match up, and I specialized in taking down guys who were several balls better than me by getting them to over-commit on the spot. Frankly, I was never even close to being as good as those guys were on the table, but they NEVER got me into a game I couldn't win, and sometimes it would take weeks or months of working them, and catching them at a vulnerable moment to take them off.

I think it is fair for someone to try to adjust anytime they think they cant win. Why in the hell wouldn't they? They are supposed to sit there and pay you off all night just to bask in your pool brilliance? LOL wtf??? I am sick of all of the good/great players who think that everyone in the room should play them with an unfair spot, and pay them off just because they are a good/great player. Grow a set, and gamble. If you want a lock every time out, go buy a money market CD or something.
 
M HOUSE said:
Your right about the biggest scores coming when the other guy thinks he has the nuts. Seen it many times.

Example: Scotty T. goes into bar and player that doesn't know Scotty starts whoofing that he will play for $20.00 a game with the last three. Scotty says bet $40.00 and you got the last four. Guy wins the flip and breaks and runs out the first two racks. Scotty stops the game and tells the guy that the spot doesn't look fair. Before he can explain futher, guy starts yelling that Scotty made the game and can't adjust back after only two games.

Scotty says, "No, you don't understand. I've had a chance to see you play now and to be honest, I don't think you have a chance with the last four. I'm going to give you the last five."

Guy still thought HE had the best of the game even after Scotty had all of his money.
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Now that is a good story. I thought it was unrealistic when Tom Cruise told Grady Seasons up his ass with the spot but this story of giving free weight puts it into percpective.
 
years ago I was told by a guy who put Kim D. into alot of his action in the 80's and he said weight isnt given its purchased, you bet more you will get a little bit more.

When I was in action all the time and used that line to get to games where I wanted more $$ bet I would act reckless and say "hell double the bet and i will(what ever was the best thing for me) give you something" I made more $$$ moving like that. But that was then and things have changed
 
azbluemach1 said:
I am sick of all of the good/great players who think that everyone in the room should play them with an unfair spot, and pay them off just because they are a good/great player. Grow a set, and gamble. If you want a lock every time out, go buy a money market CD or something.
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We could say the same to you if you really think about it. People asking for a spot aren't asking for something to even it up, they're asking for something to lock it in for them. What's the difference? Should I give someone the break and the 5 out just because they don't play as well as I do? Why the hell should I be expected to pay them all night. Screw that. If someone wants to play with me I'll give them a fair spot. If they want to gamble that spot is out the door. I feel the same about tournaments too. I don't agree with handicapping.
MULLY
 
smashmouth said:
Johnnyt

as far as i'm concerened, you're just as bad because you're still crying over it, a sore winner no less

be a man, say no, case closed, MOVE ON
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As far as I'm concerned you can't read. It WASN"T ME. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
I will probably get some flaming for this but it has bothered me for many years. Two guy or gals want to play one another for say $200 a set 9-ball race to11. I play a little better than him most of the time. I give him the call-8 and beat him two sets in a row, but just buy one or two games each time.

Now he wants the call 7&8 for the same money. I see players giving in to this all the time. What am I suppose to do keep adding to his spot until he can beat me. WTF are we trying to get in each other's pockets or is the idea to try and break even at the end? Then why play for money? This kind of gunslinger mentality adjusting and adjusting until you need a gear that you get twice a year to chase and catch the nuts is another reason why pool players are and do die broke.

Some old timers say that's the code. That doesn't make one bit of good sense. When I played for Money I wasn't in the business of trying to give the guy the best of it, I wanted the best of it. Thanks for listening. Johnnyt
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I agree fully Johnny. In other threads, those who hold out for what they think is an advantage are called nits.

But this whole business about handicapping for an EVEN match is nonsense. Might as well just flip coins and get it over with.

As my old man used to say..."All I've ever wanted in life is a unfair advantage."

Anything other than that is a zero sum game as the ending net worths of a huge majority of gamblers will attest...except bookies who NEVER bet without an unfair advantage!!

In poker, are you going to let a guy check into you and try to draw to his flush on the last card when you have him beat on the board or are you going to make him PAY for that card???

Same in pool. You wanna try to get lucky and beat me on the rolls....fine but you gotta pay for the shot. I'm not going to go "check/check" with ya.

(-:

Jim
 
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