Adventures in Linen - (Cortland 9-27)

[classiccues]

Just a story.. Steve Klein, Mark K, and myself set out to try and get 9-27 linen duplicated. We took this very far, probably further than most would attempt. The reason I am putting this out here is I believe I have seen a cue with this wrap and it has already been called Cortland.

Steve sent Hulbert a 6' piece of my actual Cortland linen that we had left over from a wrap. We asked them if they could make this or a reasonable facsimile. They thought that they could. So we let them run with it. The first batch was not close. The second batch was real close. How close? The green and white were the exact color.

However the spinning of the linen cord was not the same. Original Cortland 9-27 is 3x strands of 3 string, cord. Each single 3x strand cord is 3# test, hence the 27# rating. THIS is the important part.. 3x strands all white x 2, the last 3x strand is actually 2 white and 1 green. So when you wrap a cue with it, the green does not over take the white and it gives it that classic look. That is why the green is subtle in Cortland.

They made 10 spools of this new material. But I believe it is 5 or 7 strands. When you wrap a cue the green is very heavy. However as a wrap IMHO if you can live with the excess green, it might be better than any white/green available. But for us and restorations, we decided to pass on it.

So who has this wrap? John Bender had purchased all the spools, Prather purchased two spools from John. So if you want to try this wrap, e-mail John Bender or Prather.

Like I said the wrap is very good quality and is in extremely limited supply. If you do not have white green, or want something slightly different, I recommend it.

We busted stones trying to get it remade and the machine that made it, is probably long out of commission.

JV

 

[classiccues]

Some pics...

JV

 

[cueaddicts]

Bava/Matt needs to see this..........

 

[pfd studios]

Cortland linen saga

I commend you efforts and would share with you that they were in vain from the start. Well over 10 years ago, with the assistance of several others in this industry, we traced the "real" Cortland all the way back to Ireland only to be referred to Blue Mountain here in the USA. After many more calls and a commitment for a minimum purchase of over 100 pounds - we were told that the machinery used to produce the 'cable laid' style line (3X3) had been sold and scrapped. End of story.

pfd

 

[cutter]

I commend you efforts and would share with you that they were in vain from the start. Well over 10 years ago, with the assistance of several others in this industry, we traced the "real" Cortland all the way back to Ireland only to be referred to Blue Mountain here in the USA. After many more calls and a commitment for a minimum purchase of over 100 pounds - we were told that the machinery used to produce the 'cable laid' style line (3X3) had been sold and scrapped. End of story.

pfd

Never let it be said that we didn't joust with the windmill. Did find out that not much irish linen is made in Ireland anymore. We nailed the color, but couldn't get them to go thin enough on the individual threads. (3x3) would have been the holy grail, but I could have lived with something close to that. Oh well all we were out was
time. (and 6ft of Joe's Cortland). I will compliment Hulberts. They were great to work with, especially on something that had little chance of success.

 

[flufly da killa]

try egypt ..the stuff they use to make mummys with...or may bethe money aint in old cues we should be lookin for the old machine that use to make that courtland with..that would be the real find ..worth more than a bunch of balabuskas

 

[Bavafongoul]

Thanks Sean.......

That's an excellent looking linen wrap in my opinion and I'd try it on one of my cues. Has anyone tried the feel of this linen wrapped on a cue? From an appearance standpoint, it's really very nice. How's the diameter compare? Is it pretty uniform throughout? Do you think it would stand up over the years like Cortland so successfully does? The only drawback I see is while there's still some Cortland Linen #9 available, why would someone who wanted Cortland Linen as their pool cue wrap even take a chance on using an imitation linen. The color scheme is the essentially the same so the only difference would be tactile feel and of course, price.

All in all, I think it's a nice looking pool cue wrap and it would be great to imagine that a new linen might be forthcoming with perhaps some expanded color options.

Matt B.

 

[scdiveteam]

After many more calls and a commitment for a minimum purchase of over 100 pounds - we were told that the machinery used to produce the 'cable laid' style line (3X3) had been sold and scrapped. End of story.

pfd

Like many other aspects of life, one thing you can count on is change.

Cortland on cues represents a bygone era, so when you get some today it is like treasure.

Rick

 

[cutter]

That's an excellent looking linen wrap in my opinion and I'd try it on one of my cues. Has anyone tried the feel of this linen wrapped on a cue? From an appearance standpoint, it's really very nice. How's the diameter compare? Is it pretty uniform throughout? Do you think it would stand up over the years like Cortland so successfully does? The only drawback I see is while there's still some Cortland Linen #9 available, why would someone who wanted Cortland Linen as their pool cue wrap even take a chance on using an imitation linen. The color scheme is the essentially the same so the only difference would be tactile feel and of course, price.

All in all, I think it's a nice looking pool cue wrap and it would be great to imagine that a new linen might be forthcoming with perhaps some expanded color options.

Matt B.

I don't think it's much different than the other Hurlbert linen.
The size is pretty much the same as stock linen. What we
were after was the color and green spec pattern. The color was dead on, but due to the number of threads, the green didn't lay out like the original.
It's very nice linen, but I don't see any other being made. Need to commit
to a lot pounds and I don't think the market is there to make it worth the effort.
The Chinese stuff is readily available in all kinds of color and at
a lower price.

 

[classiccues]

What people aren't realizing is simply there is no more 9-27, except what's out there.... and it's not easy to find and it's not cheap. When it is gone, it is gone, period. When you do find spools of 9-27 its usually all green, or all white.
I can see Cortland starting to escalate in price when guys realize, that's it. It's truly the dodo of the cuemaking world.

JV

 

[ideologist]

What people aren't realizing is simply there is no more 9-27, except what's out there.... and it's not easy to find and it's not cheap. When it is gone, it is gone, period. When you do find spools of 9-27 its usually all green, or all white.
I can see Cortland starting to escalate in price when guys realize, that's it. It's truly the dodo of the cuemaking world.

JV

Starting to? It's already pretty steep. Over $100 for a cue now.

 

[Bavafongoul]

I'm Prepared To Pay Top Dollar

I'm willing to pay top dollar ($200) for 50 yds of Cortland Linen #12 and that offer has been posted on the Forum for not quite a year yet......not a single nibble, except for the opportunity to buy a spool which is way more than I'd ever use so I'd have to become a reseller. I'd do that but buying Cortland at top dollar rates for a spool pretty much ensures you'll get stuck with it for a long time, if not permanently. Who in their right mind would pay well over a grand for a spool unless they already had orders for 8 cues that needed Cortland Linen #12. Nope, if you own a spool, you had better count on selling it in 50 yds. lots to make money or else sell it at a reasonable mark-up.......IMO.

Matt B.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Cortland still makes fishing line and has an active site. Don't they.

On their site, they state, or did at one time, that they could duplicate and make any type of line that you wanted.

Well, I emailed them twice on this. You most likely did as well.

Never received an answer back.

I have seen Cortland line hanging on the wall at Tackle Shops.

My dream find, other than finding an attic Balabushka, is to walk into a Tackle Shop and finding the exact Cortland on the Bargain table.

Well, dreams don't cost anything, do they.

But, that does look like some very nice linen just the same. Good job in giving it a whirl.

 

[Bavafongoul]

I Have Spoken With Cortland Line Company

As many Azers know, I've been looking for Cortland Linen #12 since early summer 2013 without any success, except for the solitary offer of an entire spool (400 yds) which was too expensive to pursue getting since it was the whole spool or nothing.

Out of sheer frustration, I contacted the Cortland Line Company and spoke with two people on alternate dates. My second call was a follow-up call to see if they were able to contact a woman whom retired from Cortland over a decade ago. While she was worked at Cortland over 45 years, one of her duties was to function as the Company's "historian". None of the current people at Cortland were even familiar with the firm's history of hand-braiding their linen and flax strands to achieve uniformity and consistency not achievable with other machine-twisted linen fishing lines.

They were not able to reach this person and if any of the historical records about the Company even exist, these documents are likely among some boxes of records in one of their attic areas which no one seems to ever have any interest or need to research. The new management at Cortland that's been in place since the firm was sold in Nov. 2012 hasn't expressed any curiosity about the Company's history and in fact, occasional calls still come in asking about the linen fishing line but everyone gets the same story......not made for many, many years.

I just bought some Cortland Linen made in the early 1900's......there was only 50 yds. available but the line looks great......#10 lb. test.....white with brown speck......I jumped on it with the hope I could trade it with someone whom might have 50 yds. of Cortland #12 (white with black speck) to swap. I never see any Cortland for sale and the only version still around seems to be Cortland Linen #9 (white with green speck). I have a cue with elephant ear wrap......it's a great cue......but the wrap sucks....sure wish that darn cue had a Cortland wrap but the cue needs to remain in original condition to protect its investment value.

I just started new threads tonight in the Cue Equipment Section, Wanted, Main Forum and Ask The Cue-Maker Sections looking to swap 50 yds. of white with brown speck Cortland Linen for 50 yds. of white with black speck Cortland Linen.

If anyone has any leads on a source for #12, please let those persons know I have some Cortland brown speck to trade.

Thanks,

Matt B.

 

[LGSM3]

Out of curiosity, how much is too much for the 400 yards? You seem to obsessed enough that you probably would have already sprung for it had it been $2k or less....or is it really stupid expensive?

 

[Bavafongoul]

Here's The Problem.....

The Cortland Linen I need started with a custom cue I designed which Bob Owen just finished this past May. I started my search for Cortland Linen #12 in July 2013 when I ordered the cue from Bob. I offered as much as $200 for 50 yards and nary a nibble. So I settled for Cortland Linen #9 for the cue Bob made me.

Just about the time Bob completed my cue, I ordered one of the Bushka cues with Jerry Rauenzahn which was last May. I continued searching for Cortland Linen #12 for the cue Jerry has nearly finished building......again, no luck except for the sole offer of an entire spool. So I've been searching since July 2013 and you can't find this Linen anywhere.

I've purchased 100 yards of Cortland Linen #9 from Pechauer Custom Cues and although Joe P. has some #12, it's not available for sale as it's reserved for his special Anniversary Cues. Like I stated, not one offer of 50 yards this entire time and the Azer that offered me the spool of Cortland #12 is a very nice guy. He's very straightforward and he naturally is looking for top dollar which we both acknowledged was in line with possessing Cortland #12. But let's say he'd let it go for $150 per wrap and there's 8 wraps on a spool....I know he wanted more than $100 a wrap......I'll take 100 yards or use 100 yards.......and then I have to resell 6 orders of Cortland wrap (300 yards) just to recover my money and I don't know if others will pay as much as I will for a Cortland wrap.

The reason I want Cortland Linen #12 is because these cues I'm having built....one was by Bob Owen and two are with Jerry Rauenzahn (one cue is due March and the other Jan. 2016) are pool cues I've designed with my cue-maker's help. And I prefer to play with a very good linen wrap and Cortland seems to be the best. At the same time, these cue designs would also look best if the design had a white with black speck, or double black speck, linen wrap. However, there aren't any decent linen wraps made, not even Hulbert.....unless the linen is a Cuttyhunk linen wrap, today's linens are just inferior.

Sure, I'm willing to pay a stupid price for 50 yards or 100 yards. Why not? I spend that much for fancy joint protectors and a lot of money for these cues so why not get what feels best as a wrap (for me) and what makes my cue designs look better? Yup, I'll pay a stupid price for what I want which is 50 -100 yards of Cortland Linen #12, however, I'm not stupid enough to overpay for 300 yards of Cortland Linen I do not require nor have any future, further need for aside from the aforementioned custom cues.

So that's why the spool wasn't pursued because the seller wants top dollar for the entire spool and I'll pay premium top dollar but only for what I need.....I'm not going to get stuck with losing money on 300 yards I do not require unless the price of the spool was not priced at top dollar. And the seller of this spool wasn't inclined to deal or piecemeal any individual orders of 50 yards. But now that I have a rare specimen of Cortland (white with brown speck) it's more likely that someone might be inclined to trade some Cortland #12 since my prior offers of a ridiculous top dollar price failed to produce any leads.

Matt B.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

At least I know why my inquiry was futile and probably why I didn't receive and answer.

After all, it did state on their site that they could make any line. I just took it that they would still have the recipe for that particular line.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Remember The Tale Of The Hare & The Turtle......

Not that it probably matters a tinkers damn to anyone else but I've imposed upon your patience and reading time for the past 18 months........yes, it's been that long that I've pestered Forum readers with my threads and posts......some would say were more akin to rants & raves.....about Cortland Linen #12.

Thanks to the invaluable assistance of Jazznpool, my search for Cortland Linen #12 ended today. And much to my amazement, it actually concludes with a successful ending. Hurray.....it sure appears that persistence really does pay off.......50 yards of #12 has been sent directly to my cue-maker with still plenty of time to spare before my cue underway is finished.

Thanks Martin.....I wouldn't have succeeded acquiring this Cortland Linen #12 without your help.

Matt B.

 

[ROB.M]

Post

Luck box!

I knew you'd find it sooner or later.






Rob.M

-

M

Not that it probably matters a tinkers damn to anyone else but I've imposed upon your patience and reading time for the past 18 mconths........yes, it's been that long that I've pestered Forum readers with my threads and posts......some would say were more akin to rants & raves.....about Cortland Linen #12.

Thanks to the invaluable assistance of Jazznpool, my search for Cortland Linen #12 ended today. And much to my amazement, it actually concludes with a successful ending. Hurray.....it sure appears that persistence really does pay off.......50 yards of #12 has been sent directly to my cue-maker with still plenty of time to spare before my cue underway is finished.

Thanks Martin.....I wouldn't have succeeded acquiring this Cortland Linen #12 without your help.

Matt B.

 

[Bavafongoul]

I never posted the final outcome of my search…….the initial 15-20 yards on the spool of Cortland Linen #9 was in acceptable condition but then the remainder of the spool was unusable. The spool had been errantly stored apparently because the remainder was dried out to the point that the line snapped apart when pulled taut. I could have used CL#9
Instead but it just didn’t fit the design I gave my cue maker to follow. So I went back to Martin asking for suggestions and he had a great one. With the blue veneers on my cue, I decided to use a neutral like gray which was impossible since there wasn’t any linen wrap to use of decent quality versus Cortland. So I choose leather and Martin happened to
have a dark gray elephant belly leather wrap that I substituted. This thread is 9 years old andCortland was becoming hard to find back then. I even offered a $100 bounty for referring me to someone that would sell 50 yards of Cortland #12 but no one ever came forth. Yeah, I’m a sucker for Cortland Linen as a pool cue wrap. It’s the best linen wrap ever.