aftermarket heater system for 3 cushion table

S

sycodon

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I'm looking for a heater for a 5 x 10 table ,think it is a Brunswick table ,table does not have a heater ,i want to convert it over .Any help would be appreciated .Thanks
 
I wanted to apologize to all those that have pm'd me requesting info on retro heating tables.

Frankly, my hesitation was a liability issue.

Our private club with 4 Olhausens use retro heating systems that work well.

But I can't be culpable for mis-use or mis-installation.

Go to my website..www.trafficcontrolcaroms.com on carom table accessories...click on misc....click on warm tiles.

This is a programmable thermostat for temp, day, and time for $149.

It is made to heat stone/ceramic tiles. There are cables you can order that you would tape(metal tape) in rows with approx. 3" between each row to the bottom of your slate. The cables made for the thermostat come in the green kit (86ft) at $119

Be sure to start the row with one tucked in as far as you can along the frame so to heat the perimeters of each rail.

These are safe and meant to heat stone but I can not be responsible.
 
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Zensteve, did you consider the mat version of the heating material as opposed to the cable version? It'd probably be more expensive, but it might be easier to install in some cases.
 
In the past, some have used rain gutter heaters (which I guess are used where it gets cold enough to freeze) as heating elements. I think the main problem is to regulate the temperature.

If you make your own, you may want to start from the design I've seen in heated tables: heating wire is mounted on ceramic stand-offs on plywood. The plywood is placed up under the table and forms a relatively tight seal with the frame of the table so that the heat can't easily leak out from the "warming box." The heat is distributed by the air flow, I suppose. The power is applied from a transformer and regulated by a thermostat. You want the bed cloth to be just warm to the touch. The commercial systems I've seen use a maximum of 600 watts, but presumably that's just when they are starting up cold.

I have heard that Diamond is working on a heating system.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If you make your own, you may want to start from the design I've seen in heated tables: heating wire is mounted on ceramic stand-offs on plywood. The plywood is placed up under the table and forms a relatively tight seal with the frame of the table so that the heat can't easily leak out from the "warming box." The heat is distributed by the air flow, I suppose.
Click to expand...

FYI, I talked with Mr. Ok when I was in NYC recently, and he said he converted Carom Cafe's tables (and others) to directly heat the slate and bypass the indirect heating of the "warming box". He claims a 50%+ power reduction that significantly reduces the operating costs for tables that are left on 24/7. Considering he's one of the best mechanics I know, I'd be surprised if he did it in a way that produces uneven heating or is unreliable. I don't know if he's done any Brunswick conversions.

Robert
 
zensteve and billiardshot thanks for the info ,you where very helpful , I will pass the info on to my friend ,now just need to find a carom table in orlando,fl area to play on ,since Corner Pocket Billiards closed down last week.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Here is some operating info about the heater used by Gabriels that may help....
Click to expand...

That's pretty interesting. They want you to keep the table's thermostat at around 95F or a little better, or about 22-29 degrees F above the room's ambient temperature if you use the constant temperature differential mode. That's rather more than I'd have thought was needed. Maybe they're assuming a higher ambient relative humidity than usually exists in US billiard rooms (and homes).
 
To eliminate moisture in the cloth you must increase the temp to slightly above the dew point. The dew point is the temperature below where water vapor will condense into liquid water.

The dew point is associated with humidity. The higher the humidity the closer the dew point is to the ambient temperature. If humidity is 100% the dew point is equal to the ambient temperature. When the dew point remains constant and temperature increases, humidity decreases. So the dew point is directly related to humidity.

Balanced radiant heating is the key to heating the slate to drop the dew point quickly and efficiently and eliminating hot spots. Therefore, spreading the heating element out over the entire surface of the slate is the best approach.
 
The under-estimating residual effect of heating the slate is heating the rubber(cushions). Warm rubber rebound ratio vs. cold rubber rebound ratio is significant.

In a previous life, I was a quasi-professional juggler(with the emphasis on quasi). Bounce juggling rubber balls and what their rebound rates are is huge! Especially when you get into the higher numbers(amount of balls juggled at the sametime)

Eat your hearts out Ringling Bros.....13 balls... Ha Ha

http://www.facebook.com/zen.steve#!/photo.php?v=1037422545145&set=vb.1512957030&type=2&theater
 
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zensteve said:
The under-estimating residual effect of heating the slate is heating the rubber(cushions). Warm rubber rebound ratio vs. cold rubber rebound ratio is significant.

In a previous life, I was a quasi-professional juggler(with the emphasis on quasi). Bounce juggling rubber balls and what their rebound rates are is huge! Especially when you get into the higher numbers(amount of balls juggled at the sametime)

Eat your hearts out Ringling Bros.....13 balls... Ha Ha

http://www.facebook.com/zen.steve#!/photo.php?v=1037422545145&set=vb.1512957030&type=2&theater
Click to expand...


Oh, that's a point I was not considering. Not only must you keep the dew point in check but also keep the rubber warm. Brilliant..makes sense.

So now that I think about it I would guess (but not sure) that high quality factory heated tables have not only slate heaters but also rail heaters either in the rail or on the top side of the slate? Or could there be a series of holes drilled into the slate under where the rails sit to allow the heat to carry up?

My gut feel tells me that, in an "under-slate" retrofit application; such as adding heaters to a 10 foot Brunswick Centennial, the amount of heat required to warm the rubber far exceeds the amount of heat to control the dew point. So you must use enough watt density to carry into the rubber. Seams like an awful lot of heater to me.

I'm an EE and apply heaters in all types of applications. But never to warm rubber. Usually to heat electrical cabinets so that the inside does not condensate and corrode the electrical components. Also engineer heater systems for lube oil pumps and to pre-heat the air. Also to heat piping i.e., heat trace and to heat hoppers that hold dry materials.

I would like to hear more on this topic.

Thanks,
Mark
 
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Hey Mark,

You're the EE guy. At what temp would rubber perform at it's highest rebound rate. There are carom table manufacturers that add a heating system for the cushions seperate from the heating system for the slates.

It has been my experience that the slate heaters sufficiently warm the rubber...and perhaps it is over-kill to have to heat the rubber seperately.

But I would not argue with any of the carom table manufacturers that think differently.
 
I installed the heating unit (tile) that zensteve is referring to. It is on a 5x10 Brunswick and raises the temp. 15 degrees above the ambient temp. I keep it set on 85. It was fairly easy to install since most of the work is done on your back.
 
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