Aging like wine...

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CrispyFish

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I notice that there is a reasonably wide range of ages in the world of pool stardom. This leads me to believe that a person who is a C player in his/her early 20's still has a chance at becoming a truly great player.

Am I wrong?

-CF
 
If that C player puts the time and effort into, yes he can! If he's just hoping that time will advance him, probably not, but that would depend on the level of his competitors. IMO

Some players tend to drop their level depending on their opponent.

Zim
 
aging like wine...

Hi CrispyFish,

Several years ago, I asked my friend Tony Robles about making the jump to the top level. I wanted it pretty badly. His question back was "will you be one hundred percent committed?" "Don't waste my time and yours if you're not!" He didn't ask my age. At the time, I still had a full time job. Don't let anyone discourage you. If you really want to make the "top dawg" / Pro list, go for it. My advice is to find a teacher / trainer who will be honest with you.
 
I don't mean discourage you but you also have to be realistic. There are people out there that absolutely love to play baseball, for instance. Only a handful of all the people that want to be baseball players ever make the big time. I'm not saying you won't make it but just be realistic about it. If you have a real talent for the game, you'll know pretty soon. If you do have that talent, good for you! You'll love it because this game is addicting for those who truly love it!
 
i think im a c+ or b- player, im only 19...i put time, fashion, and dedication when im playing pool. i study each and every shot i make, other people make, etc. but i dont play pool all the time because i also want to be an engineer, studies come first for me atm.
but im also dreaming of being a pro someday, once i get a license for my degree, ill be dedicating my time to pool. :)
 
I think that champions breed champions. What I mean is that it is a fairly consistent story of how professional players were mentored by other professional players on their way up. I think that when you run with world beaters then the only thing preventing you from becoming one is your own limitations.

I still think that I am becoming a better and stronger player each day and I know that if I were to give up everything else that I could be a world beater. But - when I was 19 I saw stone cold champions living out of their cars and bumming $5 from anyone they could. So I decided then that I wouldn't pursue a career in pool. Now that was my personal decision and many players have been successful as pro players and many others play pro-caliber while holding down day jobs.

Mike LeBron won the US Open when he was 54 and Buddy won when he was like 48 or close to it. It is definitely possible to achieve pro caliber skill in pool as an adult. I actually believe that it is easier than in most other disciplines because the physical limitations are not as imposing as in other sports. I even know people who cannot read a menu but who run out from everywhere so even limited eyesight doesn't appear to be an overwhelming handicap.

I say if your situation affords you the chance to do so then go for it and pursue your dreams. You only live this life once so make the best of it. Feel free to come through Russellville Arkansas so I can possibly donate a little to your travel fund. :-))

Good luck,

John
 
Crispy Fish, sorry but yes you are wrong. C player to a B player? Yes. You have to be born with the top 100 in you or forget it.
 
hemicudas said:
Crispy Fish, sorry but yes you are wrong. C player to a B player? Yes. You have to be born with the top 100 in you or forget it.
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You make it sound like if you're not a top player from the start, you'll never be a top player. That doesn't make much sense to me. How many top players *started out* being able to run racks, from the very beginning? Very few, I'd say. I think instroke was spot on when he talked about mentoring. A person who's a C player right now might have the potential to be a spectacular player, but lacks the proper training/instruction/practice/whatever. Maybe there's some flaw in his stroke that's holding him back, or maybe he's just never had the right level of competition... he'll never know unless he hunkers down and has a serious go at it...
 
Keith Mc Cready, Richie Florence and johnny Archer were great poolshooters as teenagers so if you got the goods it only takes a few years to master the skill but longer to gain wisdom.
 
Aging like wine ...

Crispy Fish,

I also agree with instroke. Hemicudas apparently has never seen a "phenom" grow up. Mike Sigel walked into Ridge (now Classic)Billiards here in Rochester about thirty years ago. We all chuckled at first. Soon, we could see this kid had something special. Mike practiced relentlessly. He spent hours shooting the same shot with different spin. Eventually, there was virtually no place on the table you could leave him where he couldn't get the cue ball where he needed it for his next shot. How many Mike Sigels are there out there that were never recognized? Practice, practice, practice! Find a teacher. Do your best!

Hemicudas,

We are about the same age. I assume you bought your Hemicuda new? I had one of those "Foriggn" cars in the late 60's and early 70's. I used to look for guys with cars like yours. Chargers, Roadrunners, 429 Mustangs. It didn't matter. They always tried. I always won. Finally, one of them stopped me and politely asked. I showed him a 1500 pound fiberglass bodied car, blueprinted 400+ hp Boss 302 and a tubular chassis designed to do the job. A few years ago, Autoweek Magazine did an article on my old car with its current owner. Don't let the outside fool you. Mike Sigel could be hiding inside!
 
Cardiac,

I'm not disagreeing with you but like you said, you all knew Mike had something. I had a kid that worked for me and he was a boxer. He had a video of one of his matches. I'm a boxing fan and I was his boss so he wanted my opinion on what kind of boxer I thought he was. I watched the tape and this kid was boxing a guy that was an opponent. This kid lost a decision to this guy and he thought he had been robbed. I think he might have been right that he should have gotten the decision but it was close, you know what I mean?
Anyway, the kid asks me after I watched the tape if I thought he should make boxing his career. I felt bad for him because I know he really wanted to be a boxer. I told him boxing is a tough game and unless you're way above the rest of the boxers with the same experience as you, you'll most likely alway be just an opponent. The years will go by and all you'll have to show for it is a lot of scar tissue around your eyes and half your senses if you're lucky. I hated saying that to him but he did give up boxing and he went into other things. He doesn't have the scar tissue and he's got all his senses.
My point is, pretty soon, you and everyone else will know if you have the goods. You don't have to waste your whole life and future if you listen honestly.
 
Aging like wine

Hi Rickw,

I understand your point. A very unpleasant position to be in. I believe Crispy Fish may be in a different position. He / she is just beginning. To say don't try is not fair. If he / she tries and runs up against the same wall I crashed into, at least they tried. I didn't till I retired.

I spent my working life employed by other people. I had the knowledge, the money but not the courage to risk it. I worked hard, saved, invested wisely and am now retired. Strangely enough, I look back at all the people I've worked for through the years and all but one were bankrupted at least once since I left them. Now, I face the same dilemma. I have begun to look at opening a billiard room. The old fears give me flashbacks but, I've decided to take the plunge anyway! At least I can practice the required hours for "free".

I'll be in Reno for the December Open. I'm hoping to meet you.
 
Wow! I can sure relate to what you're saying! I had a chance to go into business with a friend back in the early 80's and chickened out. My friend made enough in ten years to retire! I still kick myself for that!! Like you, I've worked for others all these years. I have a good retirement coming but I have played it safe all those years. My kids are grown now and I'm doing my last deed for them which is to put them through college. My daughter has only about a year or two at the most before she's done. My son just started. When they're done, I'm retiring and may just hit the road. I just hope I have enough play in me to have a little fun before I kick!

I've been playing pool seriously for 20 years now. Most other players give me a lot of grief because I don't gamble. Well, my question to them is, how many of those "gamblers" have, could or would put their kids through college? My answer is to that is, I haven't seen or heard of any. When my obligations are met, I'm going to start my pool life if I still can.

Good luck with your pool hall! I'd be thrilled to meet you in Reno this December! I'm just hoping I can make it! I'm working on a huge automation project and we just secured a vendor to help us build it. We'll be up to our eyes and ears in design sessions around that time. I'll be damn lucky to get any time to go up to Reno. If nothing else, I should be able to go up during the finals on the weekend. Hope to see you then.
 
As an avid B- player in his mid 40's, I sincerely hope that my future isn't already spoken for. :)

I've certainly no intention of halting my progress. Even though it's probably taken far longer than it would have with a tutor, I've learned a helluva lot about this game along the way. There are nights when nobody in their right mind would want to play me, so I know I have it in me. Just watching my 12-year-old shoot proves to me that I don't have any overabundance of natural talent, which argues in favor of my hopes.

The inevitable conclusion (I hope) is that there's still hope for this somewhat-older dog to learn the rest of the tricks. :) Maybe I'll never make the final rounds of the US Open, but I don't see any reason to be other than optimistic about my personal development, age notwithstanding.

Your personal limit has nothing to do with your skill level, and everything to do with your attitude.
 
SuperDave,

I certainly don't mean to imply that. I started at 33. I know I'm probably never going to win a pro tournament but I also know that with practice and no full time job to distract me, I can certainly get better than I currently play. I think everyone should try to reach their maximum potential, but I'd hate to see a 20 year old kid give up colleg or a lucrative career to try and become a pro pool player if they're never meant to be more than a short stop. And, there's nothing wrong with being a short stop, just don't sacrifice your life for it. Does that make sense to you?
 
Rickw said:
And, there's nothing wrong with being a short stop, just don't sacrifice your life for it. Does that make sense to you?
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Absolutely. Like any sporting endeavor, the rareified atmosphere at the very top is home to only an extremely small percentage of those who set out to get there. It's not something I could justify recommending to anyone I've ever met. What I don't believe, though, is that being the best at billiards sports is the exclusive province of the young.

Having said that, one of the things I like about my favorite game is that I could conceivably play at the pro level for just one tournament. We all have our days, y'know? That's what keeps me going.
 
Rickw said:
I'd hate to see a 20 year old kid give up colleg or a lucrative career to try and become a pro pool player if they're never meant to be more than a short stop.
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I absolutely agree with you. I have no intention of quitting my day job; I was just noticing that age doesn't seem to be as important in pool as in other pursuits, so practicing consistently over many years can have significant rewards even as you get older. This is different from basketball, for example, where if you don't start playing very young, you'll *never* have a shot at the big leagues!

-CF <~~~ dreaming of the day when he'll own a 9-footer...
 
Keith McCready was the best bar table pool player on earth at the age of 15. Mike Sigel was the best in the east at the same age. Buddy Hall was beating everyone on the big table at 19. Point being, it was born in them.

CrispyFish, how long have you been playing? Buddy was a C player when he was 7. It doesn't take 1 year to tell if you have potential to be a champion. Play 1 year and you are still a C player? Knowledge, from someone who knows draw puts top on the object ball, left puts right, how to throw or hold balls, this might make you a B player. You seem like a nice guy/gal. I'm not trying to bust any bubble. You play 1 year and are a C player, you might attain really good Shortstop status. That would be a 10+ in the leagues. I truly wish you the best.
 
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I started at 18. I thought about giving up college once. Then I thought about what would happen if I didn't make it. When I'm 65 and my game is past it's prime. I have no pension and no medical benefits. I don't want that life. I think right now If I can have a decent life and still be a shortstop. Then I can accept that.
 
hemicudas said:
CrispyFish, how long have you been playing? Buddy was a C player when he was 7. It doesn't take 1 year to tell if you have potential to be a champion. Play 1 year and you are still a C player? Knowledge, from someone who knows draw puts top on the object ball, left puts right, how to throw or hold balls, this might make you a B player. You seem like a nice guy/gal. I'm not trying to bust any bubble. You play 1 year and are a C player, you might attain really good Shortstop status. That would be a 10+ in the leagues. I truly wish you the best.
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If I tell you I've been playing for 6 years, you'll tell me I don't stand a chance. But what if I tell you that there were long periods in that time when I didn't play at all? For two of those years, I didn't even pick up a cue. When I did play, I played weak players who I had no trouble beating. Until just a few months ago, I was always the best player around. I was never challenged.

Now I'm playing in an A/B/C league. I have a losing record. I'm surrounded by players I can LEARN from! I'm motivated to improve and I'm doing drills for the first time in my life. I'm getting much much better, very very quickly.

Don't judge a person for how long they've been playing -- judge them for what they've done with the time. Until they've made a serious attempt at honing their skills, I don't see how you can tell them what their chances are...

-CF <~~~ would be rich if he didn't keep spending his 2 cents ;)
 
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