Aim for the points

[ENGLISH!]

Uh... let me guess. You were trolling for CTE users while leaving yourself an alibi, right.

No.

I knew if I actually asked the question, a logit one, it would bring out the CTE contingency & totally derail this thread.

I didn't ask the question & look at what the mention of CTE did.

My apologies for even thinking of the question & making the post.

Please get back to the aiming at points & cheating the pockets.

By the way, cheating the pocket at long distance is great practice for when a partially blocked pocket shot comes up that one basically has to shoot.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

PS TOI is a great way to cheat pockets.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

TOI is a great way to cheat pockets.

"Aiming with squirt" is a terrible idea. It introduces another variable where none is needed.

pj
chgo

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

"Aiming with squirt" is a terrible idea. It introduces another variable where none is needed.

Why is this different from any other "feel" adjustment?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Me:
"Aiming with squirt" is a terrible idea. It introduces another variable where none is needed.

Sloppy Pockets:
Why is this different from any other "feel" adjustment?

Because it isn't necessary. Squirt is an additional complication (variable) that adds nothing of value to the aiming process. It's an unwanted side effect of side spin, not an aiming aid.

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

"Aiming with squirt" is a terrible idea. It introduces another variable where none is needed.

pj
chgo

Patrick,

I understand your 'point of view' but based on my experience, using the dynamics of squirt can be a very good tool to utilize.

Trying to fine tune one's aim to put a ball past 'blockers' at long distance is rather challenging & can be a bit stressful.

Utilizing & trusting the dynamics of the squirt & seeing the results influences one's 'judgement' on whether or not to employ it.

When over such a shot, one has many options.

Hitting center, low center, high center, slow rolling the ball, outside or inside english, etc, or using the squirt factor of TOI.

I've done all of them & have been successful & unsuccessful with all of them.

IMHO: TOI is a very good method to utilize. It may be a subconscious thing or it may even be a placebo effect.

Naturally it is a dynamic method & requires a feel & touch aspect to know how to execute it.

I would not recommend for one to use it for such a shot unless they have put in some time to become acquainted with the TOI method & what can be accomplished with it.

To each his own but my nearly 48 years of experience now tells me to use TOI on many, many, occasions.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

PS IMHO: The most simplistic approach is not always the correct answer for a non simplistic problem & TOI actually makes the game easier to play from a mental aspect, again, IMHO.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Because it isn't necessary. Squirt is an additional complication (variable) that adds nothing of value to the aiming process. It's an unwanted side effect of side spin, not an aiming aid.

pj
chgo

Patrick,

I would agree with you if one looks at it as a detriment to their endeavor of trying to utilize only the vertical.

But when ones 'sees' it as a tool & becomes rather proficient in it's use, one no longer 'sees' it as a detriment, but instead as the tool that it can be.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

Because it isn't necessary. Squirt is an additional complication (variable) that adds nothing of value to the aiming process. It's an unwanted side effect of side spin, not an aiming aid.

Well, first I want to say that I never believed the method could even work as described by it's chief proponent, and I'm sure you know all the reasons why it can't. That said, I think your response perfectly illustrates what I was talking about earlier in the other thread.

I never think about the many variables that might be introduced by a certain action, nor about trying to eliminate them. I just do what feels correct and try to focus on the results. I know where I want to put the ball, so I try to deliver a good stroke and let the wetware handle the rest. If things go wrong, I trust the wetware to make the necessary compensations the next time.

You OTOH seem incapable of letting go and just trying something if logic tells you it has no merit. That's why the CTE and TOI guys will always give you grief. You can't even give it a good go just out of curiosity because you can't let go of your logic. Maybe these methods don't work as described, but maybe they work for some other reason. You will never know how well they might work for you because you don't know how to let go of your way of thinking.

Sometimes logic serves no purpose when it comes to learning and executing a complex action.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

You OTOH seem incapable of letting go and just trying something if logic tells you it has no merit.

Suggest something that has a snowball's chance of making sense and I might try it. If CJ told you to wear a bra under your shirt while playing would you "try it"? That's about the level of absurdity we're talking about with "aiming with squirt".

pj <- never saw CJ with his shirt off, I swear!
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

Suggest something that has a snowball's chance of making sense and I might try it. If CJ told you to wear a bra under your shirt while playing would you "try it"? That's about the level of absurdity we're talking about with "aiming with squirt".

pj <- never saw CJ with his shirt off, I swear!
chgo

Patrick,

It's not 'aiming' with squirt.

To get back on the thread topic, sort of, let's say you have what would be, if hit straight on, a shot that would miss a corner pocket point on the short rail side. Instead of trying to find or 'feel' the correct line that would pocket the ball, one just stays aligned just outside of the pocket point CTC & hits the CB with the TOI & the CB squirts to the outside & cuts the ball past the point & into the pocket.

It's mentally easier than trying to find or 'feel' the precise cut line for a center ball hit.

If one is used to controlling the CB before contact as in using english then I think one can rather easily adapt to using TOI.

If one has basically only played on the vertical axis with an occasional BHE at the cue's pivot point then perhaps TOI would not be for them.

Some individuals paint free hand & other individuals only paint by numbers.

To each their own for their own enjoyment.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

pj <- never saw CJ with his shirt off, I swear!
chgo

It's a sight to behold for sure.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Instead of trying to find or 'feel' the correct line that would pocket the ball...

...you try to "find or feel" the correct amount of tip offset, speed, distance, throw, etc. to do exactly the same thing.

While biasing your tip placement choices to fit your "system".

Please.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

It's a sight to behold for sure.

I see love in Chuck's eyes...

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

...you try to "find or feel" the correct amount of tip offset, speed, distance, throw, etc. to do exactly the same thing.

While biasing your tip placement choices to fit your "system".

Please.

pj
chgo

Patrick,

I was not, am not, & did not mean to appear as though I am saying that feel is out of the picture with TOI.

In fact, I think it's just the opposite.

To me, I think one needs a bit more 'feel'.

It's just in what area the 'feel' is applied.

Even CJ has stated that he does not physically use TOI in every instance. Neither do I.

I do on occasion use the vertical center axis to the best of my ability.

I'll use whatever my 'mind' tells me to use even if at times it flies in the face of my physics education. Science is ongoing & there are quite a few non absolute 'facts'. Medical science seems to constantly be changing their minds.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

 

[Ralph Kramden]

Patrick,

It's not 'aiming' with squirt.

To get back on the thread topic, sort of, let's say you have what would be, if hit straight on, a shot that would miss a corner pocket point on the short rail side. Instead of trying to find or 'feel' the correct line that would pocket the ball, one just stays aligned just outside of the pocket point CTC & hits the CB with the TOI & the CB squirts to the outside & cuts the ball past the point & into the pocket.

It's mentally easier than trying to find or 'feel' the precise cut line for a center ball hit.

If one is used to controlling the CB before contact as in using english then I think one can rather easily adapt to using TOI.

If one has basically only played on the vertical axis with an occasional BHE at the cue's pivot point then perhaps TOI would not be for them.

Some individuals paint free hand & other individuals only paint by numbers.

To each their own for their own enjoyment.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

I do agree with you Rick. When CJ first mentioned TOI my first thought was that he's nuckinfuts.

I almost always steered clear of inside english unless it was a slower shot because of OB throw.
CJ said try not to make the CB spin (which I thought was strange) when you hit the CB off center.
He suggested to use TOI exclusively for 3 hours. After 15 minutes I still thought he's nuckinfuts.

It didn't take 3 hours see what he was suggesting. It works and works well, but not for every shot.
I will use more outside than TOI, but there are shots where the only way to get shape is with TOI.

TOI isn't for the faint of heart because fair amounts of speed is needed to keep spin at a minimum.
.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I do agree with you Rick. When CJ first mentioned TOI my first thought was that he's nuckinfuts.

I almost always steered clear of inside english unless it was a slower shot because of OB throw.
CJ said try not to make the CB spin (which I thought was strange) when you hit the CB off center.
He suggested to use TOI exclusively for 3 hours. After 15 minutes I still thought he's nuckinfuts.

It didn't take 3 hours see what he was suggesting. It works and works well, but not for every shot.
I will use more outside than TOI, but there are shots where the only way to get shape is with TOI.

TOI isn't for the faint of heart because fair amounts of speed is needed to keep spin at a minimum.
.

'Ralph',

I came from spinning nearly every shot for about 45 years.

So... I did not get a good handle on it even after the first couple of 1/2 to 1 hour sessions. I understood the physics & the principle behind the application but something was amiss.

It took a 3 hour session after a PM from CJ for it to fall into place & stay in place.

Yes, the firmness of hit is an important component & I was actually overdoing it at first to make sure that I kept the swerve out of the picture.

Once one gets it, I think it's a permanent fixture in one's toolbox even if not used often, but I use it about 55 to 60% of the time & inching to more.

I was a rather good player before playing my way with high & low outside & inside english, but TOI has made me a better player, especially on those long thin cut shots.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

 

[Ralph Kramden]

Patrick,

It's not 'aiming' with squirt.

To get back on the thread topic, sort of, let's say you have what would be, if hit straight on, a shot that would miss a corner pocket point on the short rail side. Instead of trying to find or 'feel' the correct line that would pocket the ball, one just stays aligned just outside of the pocket point CTC & hits the CB with the TOI & the CB squirts to the outside & cuts the ball past the point & into the pocket.

It's mentally easier than trying to find or 'feel' the precise cut line for a center ball hit.

If one is used to controlling the CB before contact as in using english then I think one can rather easily adapt to using TOI.

If one has basically only played on the vertical axis with an occasional BHE at the cue's pivot point then perhaps TOI would not be for them.

Some individuals paint free hand & other individuals only paint by numbers.

To each their own for their own enjoyment.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

Rick.. Your above statement in blue should be taken seriously.

Although to your first statement... TOI in my opinion IS 'aiming' with squirt, or CB deflection... but it's a controlled CB deflection.


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