Aiming: Dominant eye or Binocular

tedkaufman said:
Dr. Fancher, unfortunately, has no clue what dominant eye aiming is in pool. This was one of the most ill informed "expert" opinions I've ever read.
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Maybe Dr. Fancher doesn't have a clue to what dominant eye aiming is, but his argument applies to using the dominant eye in general. I'm not sure how much of the article you read, but this sums it up pretty nice:

Once the brain knows something, it's quite agile in adapting to whatever information it has available. In controlled experiments, you can train a person to do a task with one eye blindfolded, then change the blindfold to the other eye, and the person can do the task just as well.

And why suppose that the "dominant eye" is more accurate? People generally don't see entirely straight-we can prove this with all manner of tests. To the degree that one eye dominates, that may impose inaccuracy. Since our eyes are roughly equidistant from our bodies' axes, one eye dominating would mean we gave too much weight to its perspective. However, so long as this dominance-and the resultant inaccuracy-is small, it just doesn't matter. Brains don't execute actions by vision alone. Brains use information from all our senses and from memory. Each of us learns, through feedback from all our senses, how to coordinate an action-and we remember. What matters is the whole sensory/memory complex, not just your eyes.

from http://www.azbilliards.com/poolshrink/column9.cfm
 
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whitewolf said:
Having said all this I believe that is you guys try this you will see two shafts as you should be seeing, or maybe I am cross-eyed LOL. Someone please tell me that they see two shafts :D

Regards, WW
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Its common to see two shafts, I think it shows more when you are looking at the OB instead of the cueball. And if I remember correctly, if you are left eye dominate you should line up the shaft you see on the right.

Woody
 
Gage said:
Maybe Dr. Fancher doesn't have a clue to what dominant eye aiming is, but his argument applies to using the dominant eye in general. I'm not sure how much of the article you read, but this sums it up pretty nice:

Once the brain knows something, it's quite agile in adapting to whatever information it has available. In controlled experiments, you can train a person to do a task with one eye blindfolded, then change the blindfold to the other eye, and the person can do the task just as well.

And why suppose that the "dominant eye" is more accurate? People generally don't see entirely straight-we can prove this with all manner of tests. To the degree that one eye dominates, that may impose inaccuracy. Since our eyes are roughly equidistant from our bodies' axes, one eye dominating would mean we gave too much weight to its perspective. However, so long as this dominance-and the resultant inaccuracy-is small, it just doesn't matter. Brains don't execute actions by vision alone. Brains use information from all our senses and from memory. Each of us learns, through feedback from all our senses, how to coordinate an action-and we remember. What matters is the whole sensory/memory complex, not just your eyes.

from http://www.azbilliards.com/poolshrink/column9.cfm
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First of all, we don't WANT to close one eye when playing pool. Why would we remove the dimension of depth perception? I do agree with Dr. Fancher that the opposite eye could be trained to aim. But why would we want to do that?

As for your other points, let me first make sure you understand what dominant eye aiming requires. With dominant eye aiming you align your dominant eye over the cue; you do NOT center your eyes over the cue as with binocular aiming. They are two distinctly different ways of aiming.

To say the brain will figure out the difference is naive at best. The brain learns a picture for each shot. If one is accustomed to aligning a certain way, say binocular, then change to dominant eye alignment (and remember, dominant eye aiming REQUIRES a shifted alignment, so the dominant eye is over the cue) the picture the brain sees will be significantly different. If you don't believe it, try aiming your finger at a point on the wall, then shift your head two inches to the left, then check your aim. I think (hope) you will see a dramatic difference.

The point is, binocular and dominant eye aiming are DIFFERENT--and the "picture" is very different. It is not a matter of this: "However, so long as this dominance-and the resultant inaccuracy-is small, it just doesn't matter." because it matters to me when my shots hit the point instead of the center of the pocket. I would think most pool players feel the same.

As for your statement: "Brains don't execute actions by vision alone. Brains use information from all our senses and from memory. Each of us learns, through feedback from all our senses, how to coordinate an action-and we remember. What matters is the whole sensory/memory complex, not just your eyes." Try blindfolding yourself and see how well you can shoot pool using your remaining senses. Personally, I prefer to use my eyes for aiming.
 
Ted, Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get this from your post. Not a quote, but my impression of what you're saying is:

Dominant eye alignment works and if you're used to that stick to it. Binocular alignment works well and if that's what you're used to stick to it. If you can't pocket balls, then you might look at your eye alignment over the cue and find what works best for you.

If that's what you're saying, then I have to agree with you 100%. Even though I do not aim with my dominant eye, I agree that it works very well for many players, and if that's how they see the overall aiming scenario the best, then they should stick with it. Personally, I slightly favor my right eye, which is my dominant eye, but the cue is more towards the center of my head. For me, that's where I see the center of the CB best and where I see the line of aim the best. I've tried aiming dominant eye (when you teach this silly game, you try everything at least once, including Keith's sidearm stroke, which after a few days left a 2 week knot in my neck!) and D.E. just doesn't work for me. When I experimented with dominant eye aiming, after a heated discussion about it on another board, I would line up what I saw as perfectly, then tend to cut everything a bit too the left of my target. I'm sure if I took someone who aimed with their Dom. eye, and told them to line up the way I do, they'd miss (maybe not miss, but not be as accurate) their shots to one side or the other.

Anyways, just my ramblings on the subject.

Later,
Bob
 
tedkaufman said:
...

Try blindfolding yourself and see how well you can shoot pool using your remaining senses. Personally, I prefer to use my eyes for aiming.
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Actually, I recommend everybody try this. I've run several tables while closing my eyes on every shot. Once you're aligned properly, the eyes hurt as much as they help sometimes.

Cheers,
RC
 
tedkaufman said:
The point is, binocular and dominant eye aiming are DIFFERENT--and the "picture" is very different. It is not a matter of this: "However, so long as this dominance-and the resultant inaccuracy-is small, it just doesn't matter." because it matters to me when my shots hit the point instead of the center of the pocket.
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I think it is pretty clear the two aiming systems are different. The point Dr. Fancher was trying to get across was that since the dominance effect is so small, it doesn't really matter which aiming system you use because the brain can adjust for the difference (if you practice enough).
 
Cane said:
Ted, Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get this from your post. Not a quote, but my impression of what you're saying is:

Dominant eye alignment works and if you're used to that stick to it. Binocular alignment works well and if that's what you're used to stick to it. If you can't pocket balls, then you might look at your eye alignment over the cue and find what works best for you.

If that's what you're saying, then I have to agree with you 100%. Even though I do not aim with my dominant eye, I agree that it works very well for many players, and if that's how they see the overall aiming scenario the best, then they should stick with it. Personally, I slightly favor my right eye, which is my dominant eye, but the cue is more towards the center of my head. For me, that's where I see the center of the CB best and where I see the line of aim the best. I've tried aiming dominant eye (when you teach this silly game, you try everything at least once, including Keith's sidearm stroke, which after a few days left a 2 week knot in my neck!) and D.E. just doesn't work for me. When I experimented with dominant eye aiming, after a heated discussion about it on another board, I would line up what I saw as perfectly, then tend to cut everything a bit too the left of my target. I'm sure if I took someone who aimed with their Dom. eye, and told them to line up the way I do, they'd miss (maybe not miss, but not be as accurate) their shots to one side or the other.

Anyways, just my ramblings on the subject.

Later,
Bob
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I agree with what you said completely. I would only like to add, I think dominant eye aiming is a more natural way to aim, because that is how we aim, say, a rifle. I also believe it is a more accurate way of aiming, though this is strictly my subjective opinion. Lastly, I think dominant eye aiming eliminates a major source of doubt--if we aim binocular, and happen to glance at the cue shaft, it will always appear "off." For decades, before I learned about dominant eye aiming, I always found it disturbing that the cue shaft appeared misaligned using a binocular setup. It was hard to accept that the shaft could apparently point in some other direction than where I wanted it to go. Dominant eye aiming eliminates that factor because the shaft appears where it belongs, on my sight line, or the target line.
 
Gage said:
I think it is pretty clear the two aiming systems are different. The point Dr. Fancher was trying to get across was that since the dominance effect is so small, it doesn't really matter which aiming system you use because the brain can adjust for the difference (if you practice enough).
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I think I will accept that I haven't been able to make my point clear enough to you and let it go at that.
 
Bob, you made a very interesting statement. It seems logical that the key to playing your best pool is seeing the correct center of the cue ball, easily and I think you are right on the money saying that you should position your head, eyes, etc so that you can see the center of the cue ball best. I've always believed that people learn differently, understand differently and see things differently so it stands to reason that what you said if correct.

Players should experiment with all portions of their alignment to see if they can improve their consistency.
Thanks,
JoeyA

Cane said:
I think it's a VERY individual thing and depends on where you "see" center cue ball best. Everyone is different. I, personally, see center cue ball best with the cue just to the right of the center of my head. I have a friend who sees it best with the cue dead center on his head. I have another who sees it best with the cue off to the right side of his head, pretty much under his ear, much like Earl and Nels. I have yet another who sees center best with the cue under his NON dominant eye. The key is to locate the cue where you SEE CENTER BALL the best. You must be able to consistently find the center of the cue ball, it doesn't matter if you're cue is under your dominant eye or in your armpit.

Later,
Bob
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jsp said:
I've always wondered about this, but why don't people who use the dominant eye aiming just close their non-dominant eye while shooting? Wouldn't aiming with only one eye open (at least using the dominant eye aiming) only help your alignment? I mean, people shoot a rifle or a pistol with only one eye open...why not do the same in pool?

I truthfully feel that the only reason we don't shoot with our non-dominant eye closed is because we'll look like complete morons doing so. If there was never any stigma, then you'd fine a lot of people shooting with only one eye open.
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Several years ago I tried shooting with one eye closed but it did not seem comfortable at first. In order to get a good comfort level I kept one eye closed during other leisure activities such a mowing the lawn, etc. Shooting straight in shots to develop an aiming technique was my next step. I then tried cut shots to further develop my aiming method and finally English. After one month I realized that this was the best way for me to shoot. It has increased accuracy on long shots, cut shots, English shots and most of all pressure shots.

Very few people realize I shoot with one eye closed unless they are sitting at table level when I shoot directly at them. I also thought it would look goofy, but who really knows?

I think that most of the people who have tried to shoot with one eye closed did not give it enough time to see if it really works. If you would like more information PM me or just reply.
 
CaptainJR said:
I have tried closing my non dominent eye. Can't make a ball.
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I had a friend years back that always closed one eye. He was always that guy that we all made fun of. But it worked for him. I myself cannot find my dominate eye, I see double I can't get the thumb in front of me trick to work. If I close one eye I think I could probably see the edges of the ball better. Don't get me wrong I have spectacular vision, but I just can't see the shot sometimes. At times I feel like I am left eye dominant, then at others I feel right dom. And it all depends on the distance of the shot, close balls when using left, strain my eyes, then left from a distance seems to be good. I feel that this is a major contributor to my inconsistencies. And probably the reason Beer helps my shoot I crosses my eyes the other way...! LOL

Any advice
 
I apologize for the length of this post and hope i'm not breaking any forum protocols, but if you're interested in aiming it is relevant. I believe I have found the 'Holy Grail' of aiming and like many new converts I want to share the good news. The words that follow are of Steve Davis and have been copied shamelessly (and without permission) from the sightright website.

This post has been somewhat shortened - if interested please go to www.sightrightuk.com and read 'The eyes have it' article.
 
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First Off Zed good reading there i liked that. Made me think a lot.

Whitewolf i see to cues so your not alone,For myself on aiming and eye dominance, I see two cueballs too when i am over the shot, if i focus i can see just one but my eyes being relax'd i see two weird huh. I have always put the cue right under my chin like a snooker stance then i mess'd around with the dominant eye theory placing the cue to the left of my chin for me being a left handed player then i did the Ralph stance placing the cue over to the right of my chin left handed and using the right eye this way it feels very uncomfortable so i never really dig that way but times placing the cue like how Earl and Niels shoot i feel that the angles are mess'd up but then i just shoot to see where the OB goes and dead center in the pocket WOW, But i am not consistent with this way so i always stuck with the cue under the chin. I did the whole test to see which eye is my dominant and i am purdy shure its my left eye. But placing the cue to the left of my chin and closing my left eye i still get the same results so i don't really bother with the dominant eye theory, but for me seeing two cueballs this is the way i see the cueball, the more relax'd i am the further away the two balls seperate and i can focus to make them closer or further apart just depends and this is the way i aim for my shots. A little hard here but let me at it if i have a left cut then with the left cueball i line left edge to the left edge of the OB, then the same with the right edge to give me that straight in shot even though i have a cut then i use the right of the other cueball that i see in my double vision to aim using Hal's three line of aiming system you know using the center to edge, edge to 1/4 etc... Weird i know but it works for me and this is the aiming i rely on when i need fine tuning aiming and has always worked FOR ME, maybe not a good way to shoot or aim for some but for me i feel comfortable with it. Here is the way i see the two cueballs. The image here shows a 15 degree cut so what i do is focus on this distance with the two cueballs then i do the whole aiming thing i mention'd above. If the cut is is more steep then i more i relax my eyes to make the cueball further apart. Alot going on here but years of practicing this way to aim its just natural for me now.

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Zed, after reading the piece you cut from the Sightright website, then reviewing the site itself, it appears the device is actually a way of allowing one's sighting, aided by the training device, to align to the dominant eye. That is the only way we could align two straight lines (training device and cueshaft). I wholeheartedly agree with the concept. In fact, this concept was my point in beginning this thread.

I think this device could work well. Though, in actual fact, rather than pay for it, it would be easy enough to draw a straight line on a board and accomplish the same thing. Still, a very useful device for learning.
 
After reading the quote on here from Steve Davis, I went to my pool table and did the experiment. Now, I'm almost positive it will be different for everyone, but for me, when I saw the straight in shot and bent over, then swung my cue around and bridged, my head/cue relationship was what is normal for me: the center of the cue was a little close to center of my head, but very slightly, less than half an inch, favored my right eye. So, I took it a step farther... after all, the balls are very WIDE compared to the intended target line. I have a laser alignment tool and set it on the table so I had a straight line from corner pocket to corner pocket. I did the experiment again and when I bent over, had Billie (my significant other) set my machinists square on the table on the line, below my head, and same results, my alignment to see the line was a little less than a half inch to the right of the center of my head.

Like I said, I'm sure this will be different for everyone, but I think it's an experiment that's well worth doing, especially if you miss the occassional easy shot to the right or left consistently and can't figure out why. If you don't have a laser tool, then maybe try something inexpensive, like stretching a piece of Automotive penstriping tape from the center of opposite corner pockets, or maybe even just narrow adhesive tape. Regardless, I think it's an excercise/experiment that's WELL worth doing, if for no other reason, then to confirm that you are aligning properly.

Later,
Bob
 
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