Aiming for pro within 5 years. Realistic?

[Poolplaya9]

I have been lurking on this site for a while and have yet to post. All id like to say is that if you commit yourself to something you can have amazing results. I've done some things in my life that I thought I couldn't because i didn't have the knowledge or training or skill. Turns out all I needed to do was commit and stay focused and I was able to achieve my goals. If people walk around and believe that it takes someone special to do something then they will problably never achieve any of there goals. Also if you don't ever fail then you aren't setting high enough goals to unlock your potential. Good luck to you in your venture and I hope you get where you want to be!

All true. On the flip side, you always have to weigh the costs of going for something (financial, health, family, emotional, the time investment, etc) as well as all the things you will have to lose out on in the process and the things you will have to sacrifice and the other opportunities it will cause you to miss out on against what you potentially stand to gain if you achieve that goal. Then you have to assess the realistic probability of actually being able to achieve that goal if you do go for it. When you factor in all the costs and potential costs of going for something, the potential gains if successful, and the realistic probabilities of success, sometimes it is becomes clear that you would have to be an idiot and a fool of the highest order to go for it.

I'm speaking in general here, not just in regard to the OP's quest. The whole "go for any goal at any cost" is reckless and rarely works out well, and the whole "you can succeed at anything you want to" is nonsense and simply not true. Both of those sentiments have been uttered repeatedly by you and others in this thread though. We need to stop living in a feel good, tell people what they want to hear instead of the truth, make believe, fooling ourselves, pretend world and actually start living in and dealing with reality. That means weighing costs against potential gains and accurately assessing probabilities and making sound decisions accordingly, not decisions based on fairy tale land feel good sayings.

To be clear I am not saying we can't achieve more than we or other people believe we can at times if we push ourselves. Often we can. What I'm saying is you still need to be realistic about things and and use sound judgement and "go for any goal you want at any cost" and "you can succeed at anything you want" are neither realistic nor sound judgement.

 

[one stroke]

Also I don't come on here often but it is for the exact reason of what you're seeing. People with big meaningless comments and way too much time on their hands.

Well some might call it solid advise and it might save a young man from being another penny less pro player with no home no money no contributer to society no future and basicly no life outside of pool and another one who we be looking for a hand out to get into tournys or a backer for sets
Only a select few make it past that and the majority of those were well on thier way long before 23 ,, that Johnny Morra kid he wants to trade sets with was walking around the expo at 14 with a butter knot that would choke a bear
So some of us are letting him know what the odds are and how good you need to be to make enough to eat every week

1

 

[Cameron Smith]

All true. On the flip side, you always have to weigh the costs of going for something (financial, health, family, emotional, the time investment, etc) as well as all the things you will have to lose out on in the process and the things you will have to sacrifice and the other opportunities it will cause you to miss out on against what you potentially stand to gain if you achieve that goal. Then you have to assess the realistic probability of actually being able to achieve that goal if you do go for it. When you factor in all the costs and potential costs of going for something, the potential gains if successful, and the realistic probabilities of success, sometimes it is becomes clear that you would have to be an idiot and a fool of the highest order to go for it.

I'm speaking in general here, not just in regard to the OP's quest. The whole "go for any goal at any cost" is reckless and rarely works out well, and the whole "you can succeed at anything you want to" is nonsense and simply not true. Both of those sentiments have been uttered repeatedly by you and others in this thread though. We need to stop living in a feel good, tell people what they want to hear instead of the truth, make believe, fooling ourselves, pretend world and actually start living in and dealing with reality. That means weighing costs against potential gains and accurately assessing probabilities and making sound decisions accordingly, not decisions based on fairy tale land feel good sayings.

To be clear I am not saying we can't achieve more than we or other people believe we can at times if we push ourselves. Often we can. What I'm saying is you still need to be realistic about things and and use sound judgement and "go for any goal you want at any cost" and "you can succeed at anything you want" are neither realistic nor sound judgement.

I don't think many would advise that he or anyone quit they're job and sacrifice all in pursuit of a dream to be a middling professional (what the OP is actually aiming for). I certainly believe that as we get older we need to be more careful with our ambition as the cost of failure is significantly increased with fewer safety nets.

That said, although I do not think 5 years is likely, his chances of achieving the goal may not be totally unrealistic. There is a book out there called the Sports Gene that talks about the genetics involved in reaching high levels of performance in various sports. For activities like pool or golf it seems the primary indicator would likely be any genes that influence the development of motor memory. They are fairly certain these exist, but have yet to conclusively identify them. In an interview the author spoke about how researchers do think that BDNF is involved and that met carriers of the gene (don't ask me what that means), learn at slower rate.

I don't know what the long term implications of being a met carrier are, as I'm just parroting an interview, but it seems that 'talent' as it relates to pool or golf is in part due to a genetic ability to develop motor memory at a quicker rate. If I understand it, it's not as though these genes are totally rare either (ie 1 in a million or more).

What makes achieving high performance so rare is there are so many factors that influence a persons potential. I think personality is a huge , someone who is stubborn or prone to not follow through on ambitions is much less likely to succeed. In other words how trainable are you? I don't necessarily believe everyone can learn to be dedicated enough either. When Malcom Gladwell's book came out there were legions of people who thought to themselves "I could totally be a pro/expert if I just worked at it", and then proceeded to do anything but practice. I understand that many people have comittments that preclude them from practice, and I'm not referring to them. I would never suggest anyone should sacrifice family or career to become more efficient at herding colorful spherical objects into arbitrarily placed holes on an unreasonably large table.

Environment is important as well. Someone is more likely to reach a pro level playing out Amsterdam Billiards than a small town with one bar table and no serious players.

One thing the OP has going for him, Quebec has a lot of great players and what appears to be an excellent competitive scene. I am eager to hear of his progress.

 

[GoldCrown]

EDIT : I should mention that although I said "pro", I didn't really mean it in the literal sense. In Quebec we use a bit a different system, and being a pro instead refers to someone who is good enough to participate in major events without being squashed like a bug.

Sure why not. If you have the talent and a good instructor you can get good enough to compete and hold your own. Just keep it a hobby in your spare time. Good luck...

 

[one stroke]

At 35 hours a week, you could go "pro" by your Edit definition in about 3 months with a coach.

Provided of course you have the three Ds and the all important T.

So that would a total of 9 months from when he first started playing
Ya ok



1

 

[accustatsfan]

I am not aiming for anything lower than pro-level skill and was wondering what would be a realistic target to aim for?


EDIT2 : So, I made a blog. Will be updated about every month with a quick summary and a new video.

Any suggestions will be appreciated!

https://progresstoprospeed.wordpress.com/

Sounds a lot like this plan for golf
http://thedanplan.com/

 

[Pleinairrider]

No, you didn't.

This made me laugh. So vicious.

 

[Poolplaya9]

I don't think many would advise that he or anyone quit they're job and sacrifice all in pursuit of a dream to be a middling professional (what the OP is actually aiming for). I certainly believe that as we get older we need to be more careful with our ambition as the cost of failure is significantly increased with fewer safety nets.

That said, although I do not think 5 years is likely, his chances of achieving the goal may not be totally unrealistic. There is a book out there called the Sports Gene that talks about the genetics involved in reaching high levels of performance in various sports. For activities like pool or golf it seems the primary indicator would likely be any genes that influence the development of motor memory. They are fairly certain these exist, but have yet to conclusively identify them. In an interview the author spoke about how researchers do think that BDNF is involved and that met carriers of the gene (don't ask me what that means), learn at slower rate.

I don't know what the long term implications of being a met carrier are, as I'm just parroting an interview, but it seems that 'talent' as it relates to pool or golf is in part due to a genetic ability to develop motor memory at a quicker rate. If I understand it, it's not as though these genes are totally rare either (ie 1 in a million or more).

What makes achieving high performance so rare is there are so many factors that influence a persons potential. I think personality is a huge , someone who is stubborn or prone to not follow through on ambitions is much less likely to succeed. In other words how trainable are you? I don't necessarily believe everyone can learn to be dedicated enough either. When Malcom Gladwell's book came out there were legions of people who thought to themselves "I could totally be a pro/expert if I just worked at it", and then proceeded to do anything but practice. I understand that many people have comittments that preclude them from practice, and I'm not referring to them. I would never suggest anyone should sacrifice family or career to become more efficient at herding colorful spherical objects into arbitrarily placed holes on an unreasonably large table.

Environment is important as well. Someone is more likely to reach a pro level playing out Amsterdam Billiards than a small town with one bar table and no serious players.

One thing the OP has going for him, Quebec has a lot of great players and what appears to be an excellent competitive scene. I am eager to hear of his progress.

I don't know that I disagree with anything in your post, and it definitely didn't conflict with anything that I said in the thread. Not sure if your intention in quoting my post was to try to dispute something or if you were just adding to it. I'm wondering if you didn't read my statement that essentially said "the odds of someone going from beginner to internationally competitive pro within 5 years are at least 1000 to 1" as "the odds of a person having the talent are 1000 to 1". Big difference (although I do in fact suspect that the talent odds are still way up there). One of these days I will have to read that book or do some research on that subject. Sounds interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 

[throne4]

All true. On the flip side, you always have to weigh the costs of going for something (financial, health, family, emotional, the time investment, etc) as well as all the things you will have to lose out on in the process and the things you will have to sacrifice and the other opportunities it will cause you to miss out on against what you potentially stand to gain if you achieve that goal. Then you have to assess the realistic probability of actually being able to achieve that goal if you do go for it. When you factor in all the costs and potential costs of going for something, the potential gains if successful, and the realistic probabilities of success, sometimes it is becomes clear that you would have to be an idiot and a fool of the highest order to go for it.

I'm speaking in general here, not just in regard to the OP's quest. The whole "go for any goal at any cost" is reckless and rarely works out well, and the whole "you can succeed at anything you want to" is nonsense and simply not true. Both of those sentiments have been uttered repeatedly by you and others in this thread though. We need to stop living in a feel good, tell people what they want to hear instead of the truth, make believe, fooling ourselves, pretend world and actually start living in and dealing with reality. That means weighing costs against potential gains and accurately assessing probabilities and making sound decisions accordingly, not decisions based on fairy tale land feel good sayings.

To be clear I am not saying we can't achieve more than we or other people believe we can at times if we push ourselves. Often we can. What I'm saying is you still need to be realistic about things and and use sound judgement and "go for any goal you want at any cost" and "you can succeed at anything you want" are neither realistic nor sound judgement.

Thanks for the tips dad! Now to speak realistically that if one decides that they want to set a goal in life then no one should discourage in any way. If people do not set goals for themselves they become useless not only to themselves but also to society. I haven't however decided if you are jealous of Sam's endeavor or tried and failed yourself?????? hmmmmmm..............

 

[Cameron Smith]

I don't know that I disagree with anything in your post, and it definitely didn't conflict with anything that I said in the thread. Not sure if your intention in quoting my post was to try to dispute something or if you were just adding to it. I'm wondering if you didn't read my statement that essentially said "the odds of someone going from beginner to internationally competitive pro within 5 years are at least 1000 to 1" as "the odds of a person having the talent are 1000 to 1". Big difference (although I do in fact suspect that the talent odds are still way up there). One of these days I will have to read that book or do some research on that subject. Sounds interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Not disputing, more adding to/some thoughts that came to mind after reading your post and the thread.

 

[Poolplaya9]

Now to speak realistically that if one decides that they want to set a goal in life then no one should discourage in any way.

You're kidding right? You do realize that the guy came on here and specifically asked for the input right? I gave some, exactly like he asked. But even if he hadn't asked, you do realize this is a discussion forum right? The purpose of a discussion forum is to have discussions, which is various people providing facts and opinions and insights. I provided some. By thinking you shouldn't be giving an opinion, that was asked for, on a discussion forum, you have made it clear that you either really didn't think this one through at all, and/or you haven't at all been comprehending what you have been reading.

And show me where I ever said he shouldn't pursue his goals? I essentially said, several times, that he should pursue this goal smartly and responsibly if that is what he wants to do, not that he shouldn't do it at all. And for the record I hope he is successful at it if that is what he ultimately determines that he really wants and will make him happy.

If people do not set goals for themselves they become useless not only to themselves but also to society.

And if people were to be ignorant, irresponsible, or unable to see and deal with reality (and I am not saying all of these things necessarily apply to the OP), then they would be even more useless to themselves and society. And those were the things I was commenting on, and much of it was not even directed at the OP but rather at some of the people that were responding.

 

[Zphix]

Funniest things I see on this site are the people who mistake their life choices as "reality" and because they sacrificed their greatest dreams for more secure means they think they understand "reality." They don't even realize that their reality is a very fragile emotion mistaken for happiness covering depression and regret.

OP, if your goal is to play at the professional level I support it. If you look inward and see that playing pool is heart's desire instead of your mind's desire then I support you. Along the way your mind will try to mislead you and distract you, and so will many people but keep your end goal in mind and strive for it.

I'm tired of seeing negativity absolutely everywhere I go because all I see are poisonous people infecting everybody else. The minority of people on here who support this guy in his endeavor deserve greenies and respect.

 

[Poolplaya9]

Funniest things I see on this site are the people who mistake their life choices as "reality" and because they sacrificed their greatest dreams for more secure means they think they understand "reality." They don't even realize that their reality is a very fragile emotion mistaken for happiness covering depression and regret.

While it does happen that people regret not chasing their dreams, what is much more common is people who regret chasing their dreams too much when it wasn't a prudent thing to do and being too worried about fun and enjoyment and not worried enough about their future and security. You seem like you are young (forgive me if I am wrong) so it is understandable that you may not have realized this yet. For example, for every forty-something year old on here that regrets not becoming a pool player, there are at least twenty who regret that they didn't get a degree or focus more on their career instead of pursuing and playing pool so much and squandering those opportunities.

I'm not saying what is right or wrong for everyone. What I am saying is people should just make sure they are actually looking at reality and using some logic and sound judgement and responsibility in their decision making. OP certainly isn't dealing with reality when he thinks it is a given that he can be an internationally competitive pro in five years, and lots of the advice people have given lacked logic, responsibility, judgement and reality. To each his own, just don't fool yourself in the process or you will very often be regretting your decision later. You will make your best choices, for you, when dealing with truths, facts, and realities and weighing the pros and cons and probabilities. When you make decisions based off of bad information, they often turn out to be bad decisions.

 

[Zphix]

While it does happen that people regret not chasing their dreams, what is much more common is people who regret chasing their dreams too much when it wasn't a prudent thing to do and being too worried about fun and enjoyment and not worried enough about their future and security. You seem like you are young (forgive me if I am wrong) so it is understandable that you may not have realized this yet. For example, for every forty-something year old on here that regrets not becoming a pool player, there are at least twenty who regret that they didn't get a degree or focus more on their career instead of pursuing and playing pool so much and squandering those opportunities.

I'm not saying what is right or wrong for everyone. What I am saying is people should just make sure they are actually looking at reality and using some logic and sound judgement and responsibility in their decision making. OP certainly isn't dealing with reality when he thinks it is a given that he can be an internationally competitive pro in five years, and lots of the advice people have given lacked logic, responsibility, judgement and reality. To each his own, just don't fool yourself in the process or you will very often be regretting your decision later. You will make your best choices, for you, when dealing with truths, facts, and realities and weighing the pros and cons and probabilities. When you make decisions based off of bad information, they often turn out to be bad decisions.

My post wasn't directed at you but I appreciate the way you've written your response. As you've said I am still young and maybe that makes me ignorant or blind to some things but I'm a lot more insightful and wise than I really let people see.

The other issue is that many people chase things that they think are "dreams" and reach them only to find out that the "dream" is nothing like they thought it would be. It might be because I'm young but all of the research and communicating I've done with people has lead me to the conclusion that the most successful people are the ones who followed their actual dreams because your heart will not lead you down a path that will screw you over. Prosperity, money, and happiness are byproducts of following your dream, not the means to create one.

I think that two realities exist (metaphorically speaking); the one that you convince yourself exists, and the one that actually exists and many people end up following the former of the two. They lose touch with their path, and then convince themselves that the decisions they've made offer validity to the new path.

Through all the reading, communicating, meditating, and searching I've done everything points to having positive outcomes when you set out to do what you "want" to do (and not "want" mentally, but what you want with every fiber of your body).

Many people have lost touch with themselves, and vicariously lost touch with the "hearts" and "spirits" of others so they cannot see that a better reality exists.

My career goal is to be able to travel around the world while helping people to get onto their true path, and empowering people in general. My other goal is to play pro speed which will take longer but I have the tools to do it, and ironically enough through reading this post, I think I've got some natural talent for this game as well.

End my stream of consciousness thoughts =)

 

[Poolplaya9]

My post wasn't directed at you but I appreciate the way you've written your response. As you've said I am still young and maybe that makes me ignorant or blind to some things but I'm a lot more insightful and wise than I really let people see.

The other issue is that many people chase things that they think are "dreams" and reach them only to find out that the "dream" is nothing like they thought it would be. It might be because I'm young but all of the research and communicating I've done with people has lead me to the conclusion that the most successful people are the ones who followed their actual dreams because your heart will not lead you down a path that will screw you over. Prosperity, money, and happiness are byproducts of following your dream, not the means to create one.

I think that two realities exist (metaphorically speaking); the one that you convince yourself exists, and the one that actually exists and many people end up following the former of the two. They lose touch with their path, and then convince themselves that the decisions they've made offer validity to the new path.

Through all the reading, communicating, meditating, and searching I've done everything points to having positive outcomes when you set out to do what you "want" to do (and not "want" mentally, but what you want with every fiber of your body).

Many people have lost touch with themselves, and vicariously lost touch with the "hearts" and "spirits" of others so they cannot see that a better reality exists.

My career goal is to be able to travel around the world while helping people to get onto their true path, and empowering people in general. My other goal is to play pro speed which will take longer but I have the tools to do it, and ironically enough through reading this post, I think I've got some natural talent for this game as well.

End my stream of consciousness thoughts =)

All valid points. And I do need to clarify a bit. When I was talking about chasing dreams and regrets and what not, I was really talking more about pipe dream type stuff, stuff that is a long shot on even achieving it, and that has little security even if you do manage to get there (pro pool player is perfect example of both). There is a lot to be said for pursuing your dreams and interests though and you are right, these often lead to the most fulfilling of lives. If your passion is dolphins, maybe you should strive to be a marine biologist. If your passion is helping people, maybe you want to strive to be a social worker, and so on. But all those things are fairly attainable and come with little risk on whether or not you can actually achieve it (you almost certainly can), and are reasonably secure if you do. And therein lies the the absolutely huge differences from something like a professional pool player which is an astronomical long shot and little chance of any security.

Again, unlike all the people telling him he can do it and that he should go for it, I am not telling the OP what to do, only that he needs to make his decision based on realities and not to fool himself. Like the reality that it is exceptionally unlikely for a number of reasons that he will ever be at the internationally competitive pro level, much less in five years time, and the reality that even if he gets there good chance it may not be half as enjoyable as he expects and he will likely struggle a lot and find life very difficult. Like it or not these are all just facts. I'm not saying ignore your dreams. I'm saying be honest with yourself about the pros and cons and the true probabilities of actually being able to achieve it and make the best decision for yourself based on truths and facts and realities and not falsehoods and blind hopes.

For every say Rodney Morris that actually made it as a pro, there are a hundred guys and probably more that failed and sorely regret that they ever pursued it because of all the time and money and other opportunities etc that it cost them and that are now gone forever. And for that matter, even a good portion of the pros regret their decision to become professional pool players even though they did get there.

Again, I just want OP for his benefit to make his decisions based on truths so that he has the least chance of regretting them later. Simple as that. What he decides is best for him is a choice only he can make for himself and I actually support his quest to become a pro as long as he isn't fooling himself along the way (and right now he is fooling himself big time and not acknowledging realities). To pursue the pro ranks is a horrible choice for most people, and it may or may not be the best choice for OP, but he can only make the proper determination and best decision for himself if he has the most accurate information and that is what some of us are trying to provide him.

 

[one stroke]

Funniest things I see on this site are the people who mistake their life choices as "reality" and because they sacrificed their greatest dreams for more secure means they think they understand "reality." They don't even realize that their reality is a very fragile emotion mistaken for happiness covering depression and regret.

OP, if your goal is to play at the professional level I support it. If you look inward and see that playing pool is heart's desire instead of your mind's desire then I support you. Along the way your mind will try to mislead you and distract you, and so will many people but keep your end goal in mind and strive for it.

I'm tired of seeing negativity absolutely everywhere I go because all I see are poisonous people infecting everybody else. The minority of people on here who support this guy in his endeavor deserve greenies and respect.

So how far have you made it around the world so far and how many tour stops have you won so far

1

 

[(((Satori)))]

https://youtu.be/flKP4Te8L94

Thats still my favorite video to this day.

 

[(((Satori)))]

Believe
https://youtu.be/AjZ0KbJcav0

 

[elvicash]

If you want to be player, pro speed whatever then play pool, think pool, be pool.

If someone is talking that knows more than you listen, learn, try their thoughts add it to your own thoughts if it fits. Decide if it does fit if it doesn't let it go. Learn from whoever you can but you got to take in knowledge and turn it into skills.

Play hard, play each shot, this current shot is critical it is all you got. Value the present. Let the past go. Learn to breathe, learn to relax, learn to focus. Learn to revel in doing the mundane exquisitely, Find perfection in simplicity Visualize success, then make that happen.

Oh yeah you got to make the ball,

 

[Zphix]

So how far have you made it around the world so far and how many tour stops have you won so far

1

Never made it around the world, and never won anything. So I guess we have things in common.

Man, this place and site has turned into a cesspool and I can't stomach this BS anymore.

I'm also pretty ecstatic that the nobodies of the pool/billiard world have found a place where they can dust off their keyboard and make a last ditch attempt to convince people that they are a "somebody." I hope everybody enjoys their time at the keyboard instead of at the table.

For the people on this site looking to help others and have the real experience required to help people asking questions, I applaud you all.

Onestroke,

Thanks for being the straw that broke the camel's back.