Aiming Metric

Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fargo 1000 on VP4
Silver Member
A metric is a unit of measurement used for a specific purpose - for instance, a metric for measuring intelligence is IQ points, and one for measuring temperature is degrees Fahrenheit or Celsius.

How do we measure the cut angle for a pool shot? What metric do we use? Are some better than others?

I believe we all aim more or less the same way: by memorizing "shot pictures" and recalling them when needed. Some of us memorize the entire picture that our eyes see, while others memorize more specific parts of the shot picture: a more specific measurement/metric might be CB/OB overlap, for instance.

I'm pretty good at visualizing the OB contact point, so I use it as the basis of my metric and then simply notice where I'm pointing the center of the CB in relation to it. I don't try to "verbalize" this measurement; I just take visual notice of it so that my mind has the clearest and most specific metric to work with in forming shot picture memories.

This is similar to ghost ball aiming, except that I don't visualize a ghost ball - that larger image isn't as precise to me as the two specific points and the distance between them. I think the more specific and precise the details we can see in our shot pictures, the quicker and more accurately our shot picture memories can be formed and recalled.

Here's a pic of what I mean...

pj
chgo

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I was just talking about visualization and perception yesterday when my friend and I were playing. I was trying to tell him that EVERYONE sees EVERYTHING differently. It may be 99.999% the same, but no two persons brains interpret visualizations exactly the same IMHO.

This subject can be debated to death and everybody claims to be correct.

I can only explain things as MY mind sees them...it may not be the same as YOURS.

There has been a perception that I've heard thousands of times throughout the years that shorter people have an advantage because they don't have to bend over as far or they see the table at a better angle.

I don't necessarily agree that a shorter person's angle is better, but it is usually different than a taller person's angle. If a taller person bends down for the same shot as a short person, the perspective is a bit different. I don't really know how to explain it easily and don't have the time, but if you look at the table from different angles and heights, you can see that things may be a bit different than if you had only looked at them from one position.

For example if a taller person and I shot the same shot, we would be seeing things just a bit different. For him to see the shot the same as me, our head positions and eyes would have to be focused exactly the same on the target we are looking at. If he was taller than me, we MOST likely don't have the same arm length which means he would have to stand further back from the table to accommodate the difference which would make his eyes further from the cue ball and object ball than mine. It may only be a few inches, but when we are talking a millimeter's difference between hitting the ball where you think you are and missing it, it comes into play.

If you are standing HIGHER over the table it doesn't look as elongated...it looks more square. When things are elongated, the visualizations and perceptions are different. Some people can readily adjust and figure it out and others struggle a bit more.

I don't think there is really a right and wrong...you just have to find what is right for YOU.

I've never taken a lesson from genomachino but I think getting your eyes right makes all the difference in the world.

Aloha.
 
With the contact point or edge being along the equator of the object ball, perception changes. Standing erect or being taller or shorter in the full, sighted stance changes the perception of where the equator is on the sphere of the ball. I believe one tendency for those who see the contact point a bit off is to overcut the ball.
 
HawaiianEye said:
I was just talking about visualization and perception yesterday when my friend and I were playing. I was trying to tell him that EVERYONE sees EVERYTHING differently. It may be 99.999% the same, but no two persons brains interpret visualizations exactly the same IMHO.

This subject can be debated to death and everybody claims to be correct.

I can only explain things as MY mind sees them...it may not be the same as YOURS.

There has been a perception that I've heard thousands of times throughout the years that shorter people have an advantage because they don't have to bend over as far or they see the table at a better angle.

I don't necessarily agree that a shorter person's angle is better, but it is usually different than a taller person's angle. If a taller person bends down for the same shot as a short person, the perspective is a bit different. I don't really know how to explain it easily and don't have the time, but if you look at the table from different angles and heights, you can see that things may be a bit different than if you had only looked at them from one position.

For example if a taller person and I shot the same shot, we would be seeing things just a bit different. For him to see the shot the same as me, our head positions and eyes would have to be focused exactly the same on the target we are looking at. If he was taller than me, we MOST likely don't have the same arm length which means he would have to stand further back from the table to accommodate the difference which would make his eyes further from the cue ball and object ball than mine. It may only be a few inches, but when we are talking a millimeter's difference between hitting the ball where you think you are and missing it, it comes into play.

If you are standing HIGHER over the table it doesn't look as elongated...it looks more square. When things are elongated, the visualizations and perceptions are different. Some people can readily adjust and figure it out and others struggle a bit more.

I don't think there is really a right and wrong...you just have to find what is right for YOU.

I've never taken a lesson from genomachino but I think getting your eyes right makes all the difference in the world.

Aloha.
Click to expand...

How have you been? I agree with you here.

Gene contacted me not too long ago when I put out on here that I was starting to have trouble with some shots & it seemed that it was prominently when cutting in one direction. I am very glad that he did.

I would recommend Gene & his Perfect Aim DVD to everyone, even if only to confirm that they are using their eyes properly for playing the game of pool.

I had always been right eye dominant or at least I thought that I knew I was. I now basically see the straight line with my left eye. That is to say I see it with my left when looking on an angle from above (height related). If I were to sight straight down the barrel of a rifle I would see the straight line with my right eye & that was how I had always been playing & doing so rather well until I started to have those issues of easy shots missed pooping up from out of no where & them basically being when in one direction.

So the difference in eye height over the line can certainly be an issue. It seems perhaps maybe for some of us but perhaps it is for all of us that seeing a straight line with a certain eye might be dependent on the height of our head as to what eye will see it properly.

Hence, one's head height may be an issue as to what eye they should be using to see the straight line as straight. Since our eyes are never looking 100% down the line as one does when sighting a rifle the old point & close one eye to determine eye dominance is not an accurate test for which eye we should use to shoot pool.

Gene proved that to me & I've made a change.

I think many aiming issues that some have might easily be corrected by what Gene knows & is on his Perfect Aim DVD.

No Aiming method will be consistently accurate if one is seeing a non straight line as straight, at least not in my opinion.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick
 
Welcome back to Aiming Conversation.

Close the non dominant eye and the problem is solved.:thumbup:
Just kidding.

Damn CIT makes cutting the OB not geometrically correct. CTE isn't 30 degrees with the center CB aimed at the edge of the OB and one has to remember what the resulting angle is.

Once you memorize all the cut angle to the left, you presume that the identical cut angles to the right are the mirror image. If this isn't true for you then you must memorize all of the cut angles to the right.

A goal is to make left and right symmetrical - easier that way. Your post helps some to learn how to do this.

Be well
 
Kranicki talks about this change in his book, with illustrations and examples. Standing fully erect and gazing at the object ball, our perception of where the equator is on a sphere is different than in the full stance. A way to gauge what he's saying is to very carefully place a striped ball dead center upright so the middle of the number/exact middle of the number stripe is on the equator. Walk around and as you lower into your stance experience the shift.

That is a "horizontal" plane of perspective on the object ball. On the "vertical" edge--I find that most of my students are overcutting when they err--not always because of visual acuity but because of lack of knowledge re: throw and need to "pull" the perceived obcp a little closer to them on the ball. In sum, "hit 'em thicker".
 
LAMas said:
Welcome back to Aiming Conversation.

Close the non dominant eye and the problem is solved.:thumbup:
Just kidding.

Damn CIT makes cutting the OB not geometrically correct. CTE isn't 30 degrees with the center CB aimed at the edge of the OB and one has to remember what the resulting angle is.

Once you memorize all the cut angle to the left, you presume that the identical cut angles to the right are the mirror image. If this isn't true for you then you must memorize all of the cut angles to the right.

A goal is to make left and right symmetrical - easier that way. Your post helps some to learn how to do this.

Be well
Click to expand...

Thanks.

The thing about my experience is that this just sort of popped up. I have been playing rather well for more than 4 1/2 decades & then it seemed like all of a sudden I'm missing these easy shots that I just did not miss before. So I started to get concerned as their frequency started to increase & that is when I really started to pay attention & noticed that there was much more frequency in one direction.

I think Gene contributes the issue to age & how our eyes work differently at a certain point in our individual lifetime. He also said that we can naturally make the adjustment of seeing with the wrong eye when we play a lot but if we slow down we lose the nature ability to do so & we start seeing the non straight line as straight.

It is very much a subconscious mental thing that we can sort of lose. So, Gene has devised a conscious manual method to help make sure that we are seeing the straight line properly. I would recommend his Perfect Aim to everyone, even if just to confirm that they are using their eyes properly for playing pool.

It's not really an aiming method & I'm not going there without proper cause. :wink:

Best to Ya,
Rick
 
BilliardsAbout said:
Standing fully erect and gazing at the object ball, our perception of where the equator is on a sphere is different than in the full stance.
Click to expand...
Not for me. What difference do you see? Is your perceived equator higher? Is it tilted?

throw and need to "pull" the perceived obcp a little closer to them on the ball. In sum, "hit 'em thicker".
Click to expand...
I'm confused by this. Throw makes you have to hit a little thinner, right?

pj
chgo
 
Welcome back, English!

The more I think about this, the more I think that "seeing the ball wrong" seems to be a problem that affects everyone at every level at some point or another.

I'm pretty consistent with my PSR and stroke and can usually tell after hitting a few balls around if I'm seeing "correctly" or not. If I'm not seeing the edges of the ball well, I will put a few balls on the rail and run them down the rail from a pretty sharp angle. That gives me a feel for the edge of the ball and it also gives me a reference point on the rail allowing me to see where the edge of the ball is.

After I've done this a few times, it gets my eyes back in line a bit. If I ever get my eyes "right", I can usually start running out pretty consistently when I get a chance.

Sometimes, you can just feel your eyes are working properly. Just last Sunday morning when I put my contacts in, I thought to myself, "I seem to be seeing a bit clearer today than normal". I only wear contacts on Sundays and only when I'm shooting pool. I have one contact that is normal (distance viewing) and one that is for a closer range (but not quite a good reading level). That, in itself, makes getting my vision in line a bit more difficult than most people.

Long story, short...I said to myself, "I'm going to shoot good today because my eyes are right.". Then I went to the pool hall and did just that. It seemed that I could see the balls and "lines" really well and I was easily playing at or above A-level without really putting a lot of "effort" into it. I think it was because I could see "correctly".

When I say "correctly", I mean (IMHO) using two eyes to see as one. I only can do this by making sure I always have my head in the proper position for me (your proper position may be different than mine).

Aloha.
 
HawaiianEye said:
Welcome back, English!

The more I think about this, the more I think that "seeing the ball wrong" seems to be a problem that affects everyone at every level at some point or another.

I'm pretty consistent with my PSR and stroke and can usually tell after hitting a few balls around if I'm seeing "correctly" or not. If I'm not seeing the edges of the ball well, I will put a few balls on the rail and run them down the rail from a pretty sharp angle. That gives me a feel for the edge of the ball and it also gives me a reference point on the rail allowing me to see where the edge of the ball is.

After I've done this a few times, it gets my eyes back in line a bit. If I ever get my eyes "right", I can usually start running out pretty consistently when I get a chance.

Sometimes, you can just feel your eyes are working properly. Just last Sunday morning when I put my contacts in, I thought to myself, "I seem to be seeing a bit clearer today than normal". I only wear contacts on Sundays and only when I'm shooting pool. I have one contact that is normal (distance viewing) and one that is for a closer range (but not quite a good reading level). That, in itself, makes getting my vision in line a bit more difficult than most people.

Long story, short...I said to myself, "I'm going to shoot good today because my eyes are right.". Then I went to the pool hall and did just that. It seemed that I could see the balls and "lines" really well and I was easily playing at or above A-level without really putting a lot of "effort" into it. I think it was because I could see "correctly".

When I say "correctly", I mean (IMHO) using two eyes to see as one. I only can do this by making sure I always have my head in the proper position for me (your proper position may be different than mine).

Aloha.
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Thanks.

Well, I have an astigmatism in my right eye that developed from an accident more than 20 years ago, but I barely need any ready glasses, only like .25 when not outside or in very good light.

I have been playing without glasses my whole life & just can not get comfortable with them. I can see the balls much more clear with .25 glasses or my prescription glasses that I never wear but they get blurry again when shooting from the rail to a ball on the other end of a 9' table. I'm considering trying contacts but many have told me that it is hell on the eyes with the smoke, etc. in a pool room.

But that is not the type of problem that popped on me it was me seeing what was not the straight line when down on a shot. But it's now similar to you in that some days I now more naturally see the line properly with the correct eye & other days not & I have to be careful to get the line by the purposeful conscious manual method prescribed by Gene. I don't like being robotic but at least I have that to fall back on when I'm not naturally seeing the line correctly.

Best 2 Ya, & You Stay & Shoot Well,
Rick
 
Try the contacts. They are much better than glasses. I pop mine in and have no problems at all. There are also drops specially formulated for contact wearers. Not much indoor smoking in NY, but I believe the drops would help if your eyes are irritated or dry.
 
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DaveM said:
Try the contacts. They are much better than glasses. I pop mine in and have no problems at all. There are also drops especially formulated for contact wearers. Not much indoor smoking in NY, but I believe the drops would help if you're eyes are irritated or dry.
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I agree with trying the contacts. I tried playing with glasses and almost gave up. I either was looking over the glasses or through the frame when I was in my shooting position and I haven't tried or bought the "pool glasses" (like Karen Corr).

I have astigmatism in BOTH eyes and my eyes are BEYOND a totally correctable solution. Astigmatism causes your eyeballs to be more "football" shaped than round. In my case, the contact has to be so "elongated" that it doesn't sit 100% flat on my eyes. That means if I turn my head too quick or blink a bit too much, it causes the contact to lift a little bit more off my eyeball, or turn into the wrong position, which causes total blurred vision.

When I am leaning over the table or adjusting around a lot, I make sure that my eyes have had a chance to "refocus" with the contacts being in the correct position (as flat as possible on my eye).

Aloha.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Not for me. What difference do you see? Is your perceived equator higher? Is it tilted?


I'm confused by this. Throw makes you have to hit a little thinner, right?

pj
chgo
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Did you do the experiment for yourself using the number as a real marker on the equator? It's pretty interesting--but I've long thought you have extra-excellent eyesight overall as you don't rely on systems and etc.

And yes, of course you are right. But the results are based on whether the player understands throw and how to adjust for it. The player who is unfamiliar with throw tends to consciously or subconsciously go overboard with cutting too thinly. Often, I take them back the other way in lessons and clinics. I had a student just last night in a group clinic with this problem.
 
BilliardsAbout said:
Did you do the experiment for yourself using the number as a real marker on the equator? It's pretty interesting--but I've long thought you have extra-excellent eyesight overall as you don't rely on systems and etc.
Click to expand...
My eyesight is fading with age, but I still have unusually (I think) good spatial visualization.

... the results are based on whether the player understands throw and how to adjust for it. The player who is unfamiliar with throw tends to consciously or subconsciously go overboard with cutting too thinly. Often, I take them back the other way in lessons and clinics. I had a student just last night in a group clinic with this problem.
Click to expand...
Oh, I see what you're saying now. Interesting.

pj
chgo
 
HawaiianEye said:
I agree with trying the contacts. I tried playing with glasses and almost gave up. I either was looking over the glasses or through the frame when I was in my shooting position and I haven't tried or bought the "pool glasses" (like Karen Corr).

I have astigmatism in BOTH eyes and my eyes are BEYOND a totally correctable solution. Astigmatism causes your eyeballs to be more "football" shaped than round. In my case, the contact has to be so "elongated" that it doesn't sit 100% flat on my eyes. That means if I turn my head too quick or blink a bit too much, it causes the contact to lift a little bit more off my eyeball, or turn into the wrong position, which causes total blurred vision.

When I am leaning over the table or adjusting around a lot, I make sure that my eyes have had a chance to "refocus" with the contacts being in the correct position (as flat as possible on my eye).

Aloha.
Click to expand...

I too have astigmatism but never invested in contacts. what keeps them oriented correctly?
 
LAMas said:
I too have astigmatism but never invested in contacts. what keeps them oriented correctly?
Click to expand...
I have contacts for pool and astigmatism in both eyes. Contacts for astigmatism used to be weighted at the bottom so they'd self-orient correctly. Nowadays they're slightly thicker on both sides at the "equator" so they continually orient themselves as you blink. At least I think that's what I was told - in any event they work fine.

Contacts, especially today's almost-nothing-there gel lenses, are the nuts for pool players. They're so comfortable I have to remind myself to take them out.

pj
chgo
 
LAMas said:
I too have astigmatism but never invested in contacts. what keeps them oriented correctly?
Click to expand...

They are what they call "weighted" at the bottom...which means a "little thicker". They will stay in the upright position most of the time, if you aren't constantly tilting your head and trying to do a lot of stuff at once, but that is what you are doing in pool. Every time your eyelid goes over the contact it has the potential to "tilt", but it will stay in place for the most part.

In edit: Whoops...didn't see Patrick already answered you, but he said something that interests me now...I changed types of contacts not too awful long ago and maybe I need to try another type.
 
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