Why is it that on both shots, on a medium hit, I need to aim at the same location on the rail, to pocket the ball even if the contact point of the tip to the CB is on the upper RIGHT side and the other shot is on the lower LEFT part of the CB, is my aiming off?
Aiming point when english is applied
- Thread starter fish2
- Start date
The top right spin squirts the cb left, but it has more massè/swerve on it, compared to the low left shot. Still, it lands where it needs to land. The "low left" shot squirts to the right, then slightly swerves back, striking the ob a touch thicker, but it spins across the face of the ob, which helps throw the ob to the right.
At the right speed, the aim point can be the same for both shots, but the cb's path to the ob is slightly different. This sketch is exaggerated to show the difference.
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I'm not an instructor so I'm simply asking for clarification.
I wouldn't expect there to be much swerve/masse at all unless the shooter was fairly jacked up on either shot.
I would expect there to be significant spin induced throw. To the left for the inside English shot and to the right for the outside English shot. Deflection is going to be based on the shaft and the speed with which the shot is hit, but I wouldn't expect a great deal of it from that distance if played with moderate speed.
Given that, I would expect the spin induced throw to be the most significant factor and I would not expect the point of aim to be the same in both shots. At least to me, it feels like an aiming issue.
I look forward to hearing what actual instructors think.
If you have played for a while, your perception of the line and the actual line may be different. You could test for this by having a camera looking back towards you on the two shots.
If you really want to learn the theory, spend some time on Dr. Dave's website in the pertinent sections -- squirt, swerve, aiming. But briefly....
Squirt, swerve and throw all change which direction the stick needs to be pointed. Swerve and throw change with speed and spin. This makes aiming with side spin complicated. For your low with outside shot (lower image) for some speeds you need to aim fuller than for a spinless shot and for other speeds you need to aim thinner. That means for the right combinations of spin and speed you can aim as you would normally and have the cue stick parallel to the line for a spinless shot.
Using draw delays swerve and the ball curves over a long distance. On follow shots with side, the swerve takes place almost immediately. Draw with side usually has more total swerve because the stick is elevated more.
Contrary to what was said above, even follow shots have enough swerve to causes misses for long shots. The cue stick is elevated on nearly all shots -- no one plays with a level cue stick.
This is only a brief summary. The real bottom line is that you have to learn where to point your cue stick to pocket the object ball with all these effects going on. That is best learned through focused practice.
Here's a practice: in the shots above take the cue ball two rails to different targets -- just to the second rail, a diamond farther, a diamond farther, .... Repeat for each distance until you have gotten "close enough" three times in a row, then move to the next farther distance.
It can be surprising just how much the slight natural elevation of the cue causes the cb to massè on close-up soft to medium speed shots. Of course using low side spin can also cause the cb to massè, but it's usually not as much as when using top side spin, unless you hit the low spin with the butt of the cue elevated quite a bit.
To pick a nit (it's what I do), masse from high side usually just acts more quickly, which looks like more.
pj
chgo
Yes, right. And in this game, what you see happening is what matters. For close shots, the quick massè/swerve created by top side spin has an obvious sharper/larger curve effect than when using bottom side spin, so it creates a different path from CB to OB. It looks like more massè because in that short distance it actually is more massè.
Reminds me of something my sister-in-law said once back when my wife was around. My band was playing in a club, and during a set break I walked over to the hightop table where my wife and sister-in-law were seated on their barstools. I said, "You ladies look gorgeous tonight." My sister-in-law said, "That's because we are gorgeous."
Yes, when masse-per-foot-of-travel is the measure, high side = more than low (unelevated) side.
pj
chgo