Aiming Systems, and 3C Players

C

cuetechasaurus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know 3-Cushion players use systems for the rails (or most of them do), but I've never heard of them using an aiming system for hitting a 3C ball. I was told that knowing where to hit the first OB is completely by feel.

This makes me wonder if people focus too much on aiming systems for pool. I have talked to so many players that say that they miss because their aim was off. They don't realize that their fundamentals were most likely the culprit.

The only "system" I use is one that helps me line up to the part of the object ball that I feel is the correct spot to pocket it. It's not an aiming system, it's a cue alignment system (that works extremely well, I might add). It's actually a part of my pre-shot routine. As long as I stroke straight, I'll usually make the ball. Sometimes for certain shots, it feels wrong, and at the last second I'll twist or jump up, and miss. Then I'll try the shot again with my alignment system, and just try to trust it, and I'll make it. I also use my cue as part of a visual aid to help my eyes focus longer on the cueball and object ball, instead of fluttering back and forth rapidly, which happens when you are uncertain of yourself when down on the shot.

I personally think that people who believe in aiming systems, that play well, actually aim by feel, but think that it's the aiming system that does it for them. It's kind of hard to explain, but I think the subconcious mind takes over and has them make minute adjustments to what feels right. Those minute adjustments make a big difference in where they send the cueball, and they are done intuitively.

Your thoughts?
 
cuetechasaurus said:
This makes me wonder if people focus too much on aiming systems for pool. I have talked to so many players that say that they miss because their aim was off. They don't realize that their fundamentals were most likely the culprit.
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Bingo! I have been saying this for quite some time, but only a few people seem to believe me.
 
Hey, an aiming thread! Yes, I would also agree that, in many cases, it's probably not really aim that's causing people (especially pros) to miss. It's probably poor alignment, lack of concentration, raising up on the shot, not committing to the shot, trying to steer the shot, and so on.

IMHO, if you put in enough time at the table, aim will take care of itself. You'll look at the balls and just "know" where to aim without using any conscious system. It's really hard for me to believe that people who spend hours and hours every day playing are having trouble with their aim. Maybe they are. But I only play 5 or 10 hours a week, and I've never had any problem with where to aim.
 
At the risk of sounding a bit more newbish than reality...

I've progressed many aspects of my game, yet surprisingly one of the things that I've realize recently is my personal lack of identifying that truly right contact spot.

I've put in some attention recently to identifying that right spot, and my game performance shot up quickly. When shotmaking ability rises up, then obviously so is your game, especially when you already have a reasonable repertoire of the other skills. Until that shotmaking process gets more ingrained in my brain, I notice quite a bit of difference when I approach the table and see it clearly or when I approach the table and it all seems fuzzy. Most times if I don't naturally have it, then I can gain it with a little practice time. Sometimes though, it just doesn't come right.

Truthfully, I'm at a point where I've accomplished most of the aspects of the game that I'm aware of to achieve. In order to take my game to the next level, I will likely be contacting a pool trainer/expert in order to get instruction. Shotmaking tips is an aspect that I'd consult about to see if there's anything more that I could learn/correct.

If I never missed, I'd be very happy with my game. :)
 
I don't think one can solve aiming problems using a questionable schoolboy geometry which, let's face it, most aiming systems are.
There are simply too many variables involved: cloth type, temperature, humidity, speed/spin ratio, amount of throw, amount of deflection, amount of masse due to slightly elevated cue...etc. And then you have different cues and tips and the list goes on. If one of this variables changes, your aiming point will change. Good players can adapt to different conditions in no time.

The reason why pro players pocket balls so much better than intermediate or even advanced players? It is their stroke. It is far more repeatable, reliable and simply straighter. Therefore, they send their CB exactly where they are aiming much more often than lesser players. In addition, their superior position play (also thanks to a reliable stroke) allows them to play simpler shots most of the time, so for the average Joe a pro player is pretty much unbeatable.
 
Cuetechasaurus the system with your cue do you mean while standing up over the shot you are holding or like stroking the cue in the air to help your eyes focus on the cueball and objectball before getting down. I know i do this if so, you know like Corey how his stand up stance looks the same way he does while down over the shot. I remember there was a thread on this, as you should hold your cue how you would while down on the shot all you do is bend down from the waist.

I know i use aiming systems, three of them to be exact. Hal Houles methods but with my own little adjustment. And when i miss i always blame it on that i didn't aim, not that my aim was off. Aiming has been a big part of the game for me, so i am in that catergory of people focus to much of aiming systems for pool LOL. I know that sometimes it was due to lack of poor stroke, fundamentals etc... also. I remember writing to Karen Corr on her website before and got something back saying its something to do with your eyes she said. Nothing mention'd about a system but i know the systems i use is all about the pivot. So Last minute adjustments, negative thoughts, poor stroke/fundamentals can make anyone miss a shot. But i do rely on my aiming systems, and i also shoot by not feel but familiarity. Great thread.
 
TheConArtist said:
Cuetechasaurus the system with your cue do you mean while standing up over the shot you are holding or like stroking the cue in the air to help your eyes focus on the cueball and objectball before getting down. I know i do this if so, you know like Corey how his stand up stance looks the same way he does while down over the shot. I remember there was a thread on this, as you should hold your cue how you would while down on the shot all you do is bend down from the waist.

I know i use aiming systems, three of them to be exact. Hal Houles methods but with my own little adjustment. And when i miss i always blame it on that i didn't aim, not that my aim was off. Aiming has been a big part of the game for me, so i am in that catergory of people focus to much of aiming systems for pool LOL. I know that sometimes it was due to lack of poor stroke, fundamentals etc... also. I remember writing to Karen Corr on her website before and got something back saying its something to do with your eyes she said. Nothing mention'd about a system but i know the systems i use is all about the pivot. So Last minute adjustments, negative thoughts, poor stroke/fundamentals can make anyone miss a shot. But i do rely on my aiming systems, and i also shoot by not feel but familiarity. Great thread.
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No my alignment method is much different than that actually. Its difficult to describe, and I doubt many people know it or use it, since I actually discovered it myself while playing one day. You hold the cue in front of you, and look at the line of the cueball to object ball contact point in your peripheral vision. You will have double vision of your cuestick. Hold the cue so you see the cueball to object ball contact point path right in the middle of the double vision of your cue. As you get down on the shot, the double vision of the cue shrinks smaller and smaller, and keep the shrinking line on that path in the middle until you finally get right down on the ball, and it goes away. At that last moment when the double vision dissapears, you must gently put your cue down, because it's easy to lose sight of where your cue is going since your eyes are re-focusing. It's difficult to describe, but if you understand this, try it out, you might like it.
 
yes this is exactly what i meant by the system just couldn't get it in those words LOL. Now when i mention'd my aiming system and my own adjustments this is it, as i see the cueball with a double vision like the cue method. It does really work for my aiming, as i can just use one cueball to aim with, with the double vision, either the left cueball or right cueball, as i can see what eye views the cueball without closing one eye.
 
cuetechasaurus said:
No my alignment method is much different than that actually. Its difficult to describe, and I doubt many people know it or use it, since I actually discovered it myself while playing one day. You hold the cue in front of you, and look at the line of the cueball to object ball contact point in your peripheral vision. You will have double vision of your cuestick. Hold the cue so you see the cueball to object ball contact point path right in the middle of the double vision of your cue. As you get down on the shot, the double vision of the cue shrinks smaller and smaller, and keep the shrinking line on that path in the middle until you finally get right down on the ball, and it goes away. At that last moment when the double vision dissapears, you must gently put your cue down, because it's easy to lose sight of where your cue is going since your eyes are re-focusing. It's difficult to describe, but if you understand this, try it out, you might like it.
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The method you discovered is actually taught by many pool instructors. Watch Mika Immonen. He holds the cue directly/vertically in front of him and then as he steps into the shot, he lays the cue down his line of sight. I took a class given by the Predator pool school - Immonen, Robles, and Charlie Williams - and they all stressed this.

BTW, I agree mostly with everything in your thread, especially the 'feel' part (where is Drivermaker when we need him :D )

Except for:

The double vision of the cue DOES NOT really go away. You just think it does, unless you are putting the cue under your dominant eye. Or another possibility - you are focusing on the cue stick so much that the double vision will go away. And if this is happening, you are not focusing primarily on the object ball like you should be.

I have written many threads on long distance focusing, but eveyone ignores them. Your eyes must go up and down in order for you to get the feel while you are doing your practice stokes. And you should be seeing the line of sight and ghost ball during this process, in particular paying attention to your cue butt coming back in a straight line. Trust me when I say this, the object ball should be in perfect focus when you see it during your warm up strokes, at least on most normal shots. If is blurry, then you are not focusing properly. JMHO.
 
People love these aiming threads…Aiming threads probably get some of the most useless posts. Lots of people saying they don’t have an aiming system…or if you need an aiming system you suck…blah…blah…blah. I believe Archer stated a few yeas ago that he changed the way he aims and never played better. So, I guess pros question (practice) the way they aim when things aren’t going good.

Look at golfers and putting. The players on the PGA switch to claw grip, long putters, short putters, over lap hands, one handed, switch sides, switch putters, stand at different places for practice putts, change club or balls, mark the ball with specific coins and the list goes on. All of this to have 29 putts per round instead of 31.

I am sure people posting the aiming question are the players watching weaker players pot the harder shots. When you hit a certain level with your game and the control, position, and patterns are on…nothing can be more frustrating than watching some bum beat you with hard pot after hard pot. They never get shape during the run and pull off the win. It can play on a persons head.

I believe the answer to the aiming, like some of the posts, is in a persons head. That bad player that just beat you from making the hard shots is thinking shot only. They don’t know about shape like the better player. For example wrong side for next ball. They just look and say “yes in will go in that pocket“. If they can see the next ball and it will go to a pocket they have shape. They don’t know if it is bad or good, it’s shape. So what do we look at, aiming. That guy probably will not beat you the next 20 times you play, but we still screw our game trying to find a new aiming point. All that practice down the drain.

Once this pops into your head, you should stop playing at go back to the basics. You need the answer to, game or head. Start with hitting the cue ball down table and have it come back to hit your cue tip. Do this hitting easy, medium and then hard. See where your cueing flaw is and fix it now. Now aiming…You must be able to recognize shots. Practice aiming by potting balls into the side pocket from the middle of the table. Make the line to the pocket 12 o’clock. Start with your cue ball on 6. This is straight in. Hit this with center, bottom, top, left and right and see what happens. Literally hit this a 100 times. You will be sick of it after 20 but keep going. Next move the cue ball to 7 and 5 and pot again, then go to 8 and 4 and then 9 and 3. Once you do this you will see these angles without aiming. They will jump out. All you will need is minor adjustments from these starting points to pot any ball. I believe you can practice yourself into a natural potter.

The posts above touched on many things in my post…this is just what worked for me to improve my potting and what jumped in my head when I got beat by a weaker player.
 
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The Straight Pool Bible by Babe Cranfield has a very good section on aiming.

My style is like his Arrow method. I aim for a spot 1/2 ball in front of the OB that is in line with the CP on the OB that will send the OB in the direction needed. Once I know the spot, I can change it in the direction needed to compensate for english and so on.

Before you can deveolp the feel of where to aim the cue ball, you got to know where to aim at before it becomes second nature.
 
I agree and disagree with the posts on this thread. I think that the pros straight repeatable stroke is only a part of their success in shotmaking, the other part is that their alignment is much more consistent and accurate than everybody elses.

The method of aligning to the shot with your cue and then swinging down that line like Mika, Archer, Corey, Buddy, etc. is used by virtually all top pros.

How many of us could throw a cube of chalk on the table randomly, then shoot the cue ball at it and hit it every time. I would guess almost everyone who posts here could do that consistently. Now how many of us could turn the chalk and aim at a corner of it and hit that corner, what part of the cue ball contacted that corner? Would you be able to tell me? Would you perform the shot better if you took the time to visualize what you wanted to happen before executing? How about if you put your cue out in front of you aligning the part of the cue ball that you wished to make contact with the corner of the chalk(helping to visualize the shot and building a consistent repeatable memory) and simply lowered yourself down the line.

You would just have aligned yourself with the accuracy that the pros use.

We hit the chalk, the pros align to it.

Basically they position their bodies more accurately than we do allowing their straight repeatable stoke to hit where it is pointed. Which more often than not is also where they are looking.

So if you attempt to play a spot shot from behind the line into the left corner pocket and over cut it one diamond up the side rail did you miss aim? Or is it more likely you miss aligned and your straight repeatable stroke(remember you can hit the chalk every time) was pointed at the wrong place no matter where you were looking.

Just my ideas

Bern
 
FLICKit said:
At the risk of sounding a bit more newbish than reality...

I've progressed many aspects of my game, yet surprisingly one of the things that I've realize recently is my personal lack of identifying that truly right contact spot.

I've put in some attention recently to identifying that right spot, and my game performance shot up quickly. When shotmaking ability rises up, then obviously so is your game, especially when you already have a reasonable repertoire of the other skills. Until that shotmaking process gets more ingrained in my brain, I notice quite a bit of difference when I approach the table and see it clearly or when I approach the table and it all seems fuzzy. Most times if I don't naturally have it, then I can gain it with a little practice time. Sometimes though, it just doesn't come right.

Truthfully, I'm at a point where I've accomplished most of the aspects of the game that I'm aware of to achieve. In order to take my game to the next level, I will likely be contacting a pool trainer/expert in order to get instruction. Shotmaking tips is an aspect that I'd consult about to see if there's anything more that I could learn/correct.

If I never missed, I'd be very happy with my game. :)
Click to expand...

Aiming systems are very useful in the beginning stages of your learning process. Beginners can not aim by feel, because they haven't developed feel yet, so they have to rely on trial and error or a system.

Eventually you have to let go of your systems and trust yourself. I started out using the ghost ball method and then switched to another aiming system, which taught me all of the basic shots. But I found that neither worked too well under pressure.

The problem with both systems was trust. After a few misses under pressure I started doubting the system, or doubted that I was capable of using the systems at that point in time. After relying on them so much, I found myself completely helpless if my systems weren't working.

I find it much easier to trust my experience under pressure, and it eliminates one factor to worry about, which is always helpful.

I don't like to term aiming by feel, it makes it sound like your guessing half the time, which is not true. I would rather say I am aiming by experience, because I know where the balls are going, I have shot them thousands upon thousands of times.

One other point I would like to address is the idea there are thousands different pots in pool and in snooker. Mathematically that may be true. Move the cue ball or object ball a centimeter to the left or right, it is a different angle. That said, the aiming point is pretty much the same. So the theory hasn't any pratical application when actually playing.

Aiming is easy, people just make it hard. If you have been playing a while and you still have trouble potting balls, it is probably your alignement which is the culprit, not your aiming.
 
Big Bad Bern said:
I agree and disagree with the posts on this thread. I think that the pros straight repeatable stroke is only a part of their success in shotmaking, the other part is that their alignment is much more consistent and accurate than everybody elses.

The method of aligning to the shot with your cue and then swinging down that line like Mika, Archer, Corey, Buddy, etc. is used by virtually all top pros.

How many of us could throw a cube of chalk on the table randomly, then shoot the cue ball at it and hit it every time. I would guess almost everyone who posts here could do that consistently. Now how many of us could turn the chalk and aim at a corner of it and hit that corner, what part of the cue ball contacted that corner? Would you be able to tell me? Would you perform the shot better if you took the time to visualize what you wanted to happen before executing? How about if you put your cue out in front of you aligning the part of the cue ball that you wished to make contact with the corner of the chalk(helping to visualize the shot and building a consistent repeatable memory) and simply lowered yourself down the line.

You would just have aligned yourself with the accuracy that the pros use.

We hit the chalk, the pros align to it.

Basically they position their bodies more accurately than we do allowing their straight repeatable stoke to hit where it is pointed. Which more often than not is also where they are looking.

So if you attempt to play a spot shot from behind the line into the left corner pocket and over cut it one diamond up the side rail did you miss aim? Or is it more likely you miss aligned and your straight repeatable stroke(remember you can hit the chalk every time) was pointed at the wrong place no matter where you were looking.

Just my ideas

Bern
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Yes, I think you make some good points here. And I think this thread ties in nicely with the recent threads about stroke. IMHO, it's not really about how "good" your stroke looks, it's about how reliable and consistent it is. The stroke seems, to me, to be the first thing to go south when a player is under pressure. And I've spent a lot of time trying to develop a stroke that I can have faith in. As far as aim, I spend much more time trying to align my body and step into the shot than I do worrying about where to hit the ob. To me, this alignment is aiming to a large extent. Once I'm down in the shot, I've already pretty much determined where I need to aim. I think sometimes people only begin thinking about aiming when they're ready to shoot. By that time, if you haven't aligned correctly, it's too late. So I guess maybe I'm trying to say that I aim more with my body than with my eyes, and that's why I consider myself a "feel" player.

One other thought. Anyone else have this happen? As I'm in the act of stroking the cb, I can tell you if I'm going to make the shot. I can just feel it. And furthermore, if I'm going to miss, I can tell you how I'm going to miss- over cut, too full a hit, etc.
 
My systems i mentioned are Hal Houles, so what i do is always get down over the shot looking at the edge of the objectball, this is for the cuts. Now this is just my reference point, if the cut is thinner then a half ball shot or thicker i can move the cueball with my aiming system to the correct point. Its funny that i can get down on the shot for a slight cut shot and get down over the shot dead straight in, cueball and objectball in a straight line, and aim with my system and get the cueball to cut the objectball. It freaks people out in leagues as they think by the angle they are looking at me that i am going to hit the ball to straight but get a cut outta it, so it works in vice versa as i can get down over a shot for a cut and aim to where i can nail the objectball and send it dead straight. So what i did was just work with'em and made my own adjustments, and love'em to death. So Big Thanks to Koop, DM Hal and Ron V.
 
Agree 100%. Perhaps that's because I play by feel, though.

I know that (esp lately) when my alignment is off is when I play poor. When I deconstruct why I'm aligning incorrectly, my game jumps back up. Just shoot the ball straight.

cuetechasaurus said:
This makes me wonder if people focus too much on aiming systems for pool. I have talked to so many players that say that they miss because their aim was off. They don't realize that their fundamentals were most likely the culprit.

The only "system" I use is one that helps me line up to the part of the object ball that I feel is the correct spot to pocket it. It's not an aiming system, it's a cue alignment system (that works extremely well, I might add). It's actually a part of my pre-shot routine. As long as I stroke straight, I'll usually make the ball.

Your thoughts?
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