JAL...Your system uses a 30 degree cut for all four shots. Whatever words you've chosen to specify the aim direction, it still amounts to a 30 degree cut, ignoring throw. With throw, the actual cut angle is reduced to something less than 30 degrees.
THANKS for the trouble you took to calculate those angles but almost certainly due to my own problems with explaining the system, your presumption that the system results in a 30 deg. cut for all shots is not not correct.
You are concluding that by aiming the tip at the same place on the OB for all 3 shots produces the same cut angle is where we are having the disconnect.
Let me see if I can get us on the same page. First, if you aim the cue tip at a given shot and shoot that identical shot multiple times then, of course, you will get the same cut angle every time.
BUT the HUGE DIFFERENCE is that you are NOT shooting the same shot multiple times...because the CB is moved for all shots!
Given that the CB has moved and the OB has not, then the ONLY way to get the same 30 deg. cut would be to aim the tip at a DIFFERENT place on the OB!
I JUST went to my table...set up the 3 shots and didn't even bend over the shot. I just stood behind the shots and leveled the cue one handed to "aim" the tip at the half on/half off sight picture and then placed the cue behind the second and third shots and I could SEE that shot angle declining. Just try that. It is WIERD if you don't see the cut angles reduce and I have no explanation for that other than eye dominance issues I suppose. But I have SEVERAL members with whom I am carrying on pm dialogs who report that it's workin' for them too so its just strange.
Regarding geometry being the antithesis of dogma I disagree...dogmatically. (-:
In some usage, dogma is considered both authoritative and arrogant but I certainly did not mean to assert arrogance on your part.
The version of dogma I ascribed to geometry conforms to this definition:
"An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true. "
Those espousing arguments based on geometry do so authoritatively and with the belief that what they say is absolutely true. With great respect, I think you posts on this topic exactly conforms to the above definition and is not at all the antithises of it.
If you reply to this...please save me some time. Are you one of the few who actually tried the 3 shot series?
Finally, your wrote..."Jim, here is a look at how throw would affect your example (four balls on the center string)."
Thanks, for that analysys. But you didn't specify how much throw was being induced. At Koehler's maximum of 11 degrees under the worst conditions, all 3 shots go easily. If the difference is split between the extremes of 4-11 degrees to say 7, then all 3 also go given your 1/8 ball tolerance for striking a point.
In addition, as the shot length moves back from the 3'+ distance from the spot, then the throw factor (in degrees) and be reduced to something less than the 7 degrees mentioned above. Correct?
But I am not basing my system on throw. I will say, however, that I don't recall a single post from the math guys even mentioning that geometry clearly does NOT perfectly predict the outcome of shots and in fact, prior to my posting of the Koehler data, I would have betcha a dime that some would have argued that raw geometry WOULD perfectly predict the outcomes....thus my dogmatic remark.
But Jim...here's the deal. Earlier, I set the CB on the head string...dead center and the OB on the spot and used TP 5 to cut the shot.
I would imagine you would agree that shot is not a hanger. I alternated between the right and left corners so as not to freeze either shot picture and drilled the shots 9 times out of 10 tries.
My guess is that most observers would agree that is no more than a 70% probability shot for most players. What would you say it is?
And that is the bottom line. I have SIGNIFICANTLY improved my shotmaking percentages via use of this system.
I appreciate your stating that it is by no means useless and it DOES have its limitations...a FEW more than I thought. But being imperfect does not mean that it can't improve the user's shot making percentages. If it did so by even 10% then every player in the world would be clamoring to learn it!!
I can't wait until DCC when I will stand 6 feet behind TOP shooters, with my BACK turned...have him/her aim the 3 shot series with a LaserCue so that there will be no question about where the tip is pointing and tell them EXACTLY to what spot on the OB their tip is aiming!!!!
FUN!!!!!!!!!
And I will LOVE the posts that will appear here....SOON!!!! (-:
(NOTE: I've already done it with a world champion which is not one of the least reasons why I am so sure it works...absent dominant eye issues...but WHY is works is unknown to me and also of almost no conern other than idle curiosity.)
Genuine THANKS for your comments Jim!!
(-:
THANKS for the trouble you took to calculate those angles but almost certainly due to my own problems with explaining the system, your presumption that the system results in a 30 deg. cut for all shots is not not correct.
You are concluding that by aiming the tip at the same place on the OB for all 3 shots produces the same cut angle is where we are having the disconnect.
Let me see if I can get us on the same page. First, if you aim the cue tip at a given shot and shoot that identical shot multiple times then, of course, you will get the same cut angle every time.
BUT the HUGE DIFFERENCE is that you are NOT shooting the same shot multiple times...because the CB is moved for all shots!
Given that the CB has moved and the OB has not, then the ONLY way to get the same 30 deg. cut would be to aim the tip at a DIFFERENT place on the OB!
I JUST went to my table...set up the 3 shots and didn't even bend over the shot. I just stood behind the shots and leveled the cue one handed to "aim" the tip at the half on/half off sight picture and then placed the cue behind the second and third shots and I could SEE that shot angle declining. Just try that. It is WIERD if you don't see the cut angles reduce and I have no explanation for that other than eye dominance issues I suppose. But I have SEVERAL members with whom I am carrying on pm dialogs who report that it's workin' for them too so its just strange.
Regarding geometry being the antithesis of dogma I disagree...dogmatically. (-:
In some usage, dogma is considered both authoritative and arrogant but I certainly did not mean to assert arrogance on your part.
The version of dogma I ascribed to geometry conforms to this definition:
"An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true. "
Those espousing arguments based on geometry do so authoritatively and with the belief that what they say is absolutely true. With great respect, I think you posts on this topic exactly conforms to the above definition and is not at all the antithises of it.
If you reply to this...please save me some time. Are you one of the few who actually tried the 3 shot series?
Finally, your wrote..."Jim, here is a look at how throw would affect your example (four balls on the center string)."
Thanks, for that analysys. But you didn't specify how much throw was being induced. At Koehler's maximum of 11 degrees under the worst conditions, all 3 shots go easily. If the difference is split between the extremes of 4-11 degrees to say 7, then all 3 also go given your 1/8 ball tolerance for striking a point.
In addition, as the shot length moves back from the 3'+ distance from the spot, then the throw factor (in degrees) and be reduced to something less than the 7 degrees mentioned above. Correct?
But I am not basing my system on throw. I will say, however, that I don't recall a single post from the math guys even mentioning that geometry clearly does NOT perfectly predict the outcome of shots and in fact, prior to my posting of the Koehler data, I would have betcha a dime that some would have argued that raw geometry WOULD perfectly predict the outcomes....thus my dogmatic remark.
But Jim...here's the deal. Earlier, I set the CB on the head string...dead center and the OB on the spot and used TP 5 to cut the shot.
I would imagine you would agree that shot is not a hanger. I alternated between the right and left corners so as not to freeze either shot picture and drilled the shots 9 times out of 10 tries.
My guess is that most observers would agree that is no more than a 70% probability shot for most players. What would you say it is?
And that is the bottom line. I have SIGNIFICANTLY improved my shotmaking percentages via use of this system.
I appreciate your stating that it is by no means useless and it DOES have its limitations...a FEW more than I thought. But being imperfect does not mean that it can't improve the user's shot making percentages. If it did so by even 10% then every player in the world would be clamoring to learn it!!
I can't wait until DCC when I will stand 6 feet behind TOP shooters, with my BACK turned...have him/her aim the 3 shot series with a LaserCue so that there will be no question about where the tip is pointing and tell them EXACTLY to what spot on the OB their tip is aiming!!!!
FUN!!!!!!!!!
And I will LOVE the posts that will appear here....SOON!!!! (-:
(NOTE: I've already done it with a world champion which is not one of the least reasons why I am so sure it works...absent dominant eye issues...but WHY is works is unknown to me and also of almost no conern other than idle curiosity.)
Genuine THANKS for your comments Jim!!
(-: