Aiming

[mikepage]

This is like blasphemy....saying the "pros" use aiming systems, as if you speak for all of them. Not many of them do, and the ones that do, use aiming systems for tough shots. Everything else, they don't need aiming systems, because they arent newbies that arent sure where to aim like you.

You mean you didn't know?

The pros all use the same secret aiming system. Balls splitting the pockets all over the place pretty much proves that. They won't tell us about it because then they'd either have to kill us or let us be pros too.
They hold this information as tightly as the government and pharmeceutical industry hold on to the natural cures for cancer and the common cold....

mike page
fargo

 

[pete lafond]

Many people on here ask, how to aim. I love the response, just take a line to pocket and hit it. Another great post, watch good players and do the same thing. Or if you can’t put a ball in the hole quit playing.

Many people in the world, except for those exceptionally gifted posters that like to discover everything on their own. Had mothers, fathers or other parental figures and schools teaching them for 18 years. I am sure they learn many different ways of doing the same thing and picked which one works for them.

The comments that they just do it, when it comes to potting balls is bull$h1t. Pro-players aim. Do they all use the same system? My guess would be no. They find what works.

Players that are playing good pick out the potting lines, contact points, or angles quickly, and yes just do it. When we are battling a bad day something to aim at is good. In the zone is good, but sometimes that zone hides really well on that small 4 ¼ by 9 table. I don’t like taking the whole match looking for the zone. I like having a reset point an aiming system.

Yes, period. Everyone is looking for a magic system that will make them a super-potting expert. There is none. Why in the world would people want to work with a system that uses reference points? That's what all these systems do. It is complicating it more than it needs to. Instead of simplifying, your adding another variable again. Look out, because when you can not focus on your system one day, you'll need another system to layer than one to improve focus.

Simple is best and experience is key, nothing else. Do it the simplest way and soon you will see every ball to the pocket no matter what angle and whatever English you are using. Just train your eye to pick up the spot and you will not only make long difficult cuts but even make those impossible shots that do not have a full pocket.

 

[pete lafond]

I close my eyes and pray.

LWW

Is there a different prayer that's best based on the degree of cut?

 

[ceebee]

here is a nifty system that I have used in a tight match, knowing I have to make the ball. Use of english will require some compensation.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Yesterday I watched a Bert Kinister tape, called "Making Long Hard Shots". In it, he said that if you take a straight-in shot (has to be a rather long one), you have to aim straight at the ob to make it, we all know that.

Now, you can move the cb to the side of it's current position up to three ball sizes right or left and you can still make the shot by aiming straight at the ob. He admits that it doesn't make any sense, but it works.

After I saw the tape I went to the pool hall and set up some of the shots he showed and shot them by aiming straight at the ob. I made most of them, and the shots were not easy, they were rather long close-to-straight-in shots. Of course I was aiming straight at the ob, but I wasn't acutally hitting straight at the ob, otherwise I would miss, as the shot was not straight in.

To me this experiment shows how our brain plays games on us and how we can be led to believe that we can make all shots with three angles (or four or five or ten) and be perfectly sure that we're aiming and sinking balls that way.

I think you're spot on here!

On many fullish angle shots I feel that I'm aligning straight at the OB. But intuitively I am adjusting to the OB going toward the pocket.

 

[Boro Nut]

here is a nifty system that I have used in a tight match, knowing I have to make the ball. Use of english will require some compensation.

You missed out the parallel line between the aiming point and the object ball is the same as the centre to aiming point on the cue ball. Two ways to arrive at the same thing, and probably easier to see. It's a parallelogram, not just two parallel lines.

There is no aiming by numbers system as accurate as your brain recognising where to point the cue to pot the ball. Don't try to hit a point on the object ball. A fraction out will be magnified the further the object ball has to travel. If your cue is pointing to infinity along the right line, there is no possibility of error at the contact point. Everyone knows to drive their car into the far distance. When you throw a stone you just look at the target. Footballers volley looping spinning footballs 40 yards into the roof of the net. Same with cueing. Train the cue to follow your eye (it already wants to) and look down that line.

Boro Nut

 

[pinkisntwell]

I think you're spot on here!

On many fullish angle shots I feel that I'm aligning straight at the OB. But intuitively I am adjusting to the OB going toward the pocket.

I did notice that if I tried hard to really line up straight then I would undercut the shot, but still not hit the ob straight. Which is quite amazing if you think about it. My mind had gotten used to aiming at the hole for so long that it would take lots of effort to take it away.

 

[the scorpion]

Jason I believe pool commentator clocked it right when he said the only thing you need to remember when shooting a ball is if you want the ob to left hit right on the cb and if you want the ob to go right then hit left on the cb.

And finally the same applys for using top and bottom.

 

[Colin Colenso]

I did notice that if I tried hard to really line up straight then I would undercut the shot, but still not hit the ob straight. Which is quite amazing if you think about it. My mind had gotten used to aiming at the hole for so long that it would take lots of effort to take it away.

Yes, you have to try hard to ignore the pocket.

This comes into play often on combination shots. Most misses occur because the player hits the OB too much toward the pocket. It's a kind of mental magnet.

 

[sixpack]

That makes absolutely no sense. There is only one point on the cue ball that can make a half-ball contact with the object ball.

Yes, that's why I was aking him to explain what he's talking about...

The point as he describes to measure is different from the actual contact point, so I'm trying to figure out what he's looking at.

 

[Jason Robichaud]

This is like blasphemy....saying the "pros" use aiming systems, as if you speak for all of them. Not many of them do, and the ones that do, use aiming systems for tough shots. Everything else, they don't need aiming systems, because they arent newbies that arent sure where to aim like you.

Why don't you read the post, knob. "Pro-players aim" I stated. And yes I will speak for all of them...They all aim. That is why they are pro...Hard shots we often see them point their cue at the contact point before they shoot. That is aiming. The only difference is for a pro it is to confirm the spot, not find it...If you don't aim, you suck.

 

[Ronoh]

The object ball only has 3 contact points to aim at. These are Full, Half and Quarter ball.

You're being a little narrow minded with that comment. It's a good generalization if you're playing on a "loose" table. But, for those who strive to drive (or finese) an object ball directly to the pocket, they want something more.

An "object" ball has an infinate amount of contact points of a 180 degree arc, of left to right, or visa versa. Same with the cue ball. It's the combination of the two to split the pocket is what makes the shot (plus getting shape for the next ball, to get on the third, generally).

Easiest aiming system I have used. Wish it didn’t take me 3 years of practicing to figure out why some days I pot better than others.

I have to agree with you. But, no matter what aiming system works for you, you'll still have had to of taken the time to learn it so that it does.

Billiards is a never ending learning experience.

Edit: forgot to mention this web site. Go here, click on everything... Learn Pool

 

[Colin Colenso]

Jason I believe pool commentator clocked it right when he said the only thing you need to remember when shooting a ball is if you want the ob to left hit right on the cb and if you want the ob to go right then hit left on the cb.

And finally the same applys for using top and bottom.

So he said you have to hit every non-straight shot with Outside English?

There are some benefits to using OE, such as reducing skids (kicks), and positional play, but it's hardly the holy grail of aiming.

And how does the same apply for using top and bottom? What do you mean here?

 

[pete lafond]

So he said you have to hit every non-straight shot with Outside English?

There are some benefits to using OE, such as reducing skids (kicks), and positional play, but it's hardly the holy grail of aiming.

And how does the same apply for using top and bottom? What do you mean here?

Generally when possible for position play OE is always preferred. Low English reduces throw, reduces curve and also minimizes skid. High English enhances the mentioned.

In summary, low English delivers the most accurate point to point shot. OE compensates for throw.

 

[TheConArtist]

Dead thread i know, but i wanted to add something that i read, someone once said their instructor or teacher said find or aim for a half ball hit then after this adjust your aiming from there on all cut shots. You know such like a reference point to begin with, but aiming center cueball to edge of the object ball would it always be half ball hit depending on the distance of the shot, anyways i love the diagram.

 

[CaptainJR]

Well, I just couldn't stand it any longer. Reading on the side lines just isn't for me I guess.

How is a pool shot made? You get a certain spot on the cue ball to contact a certain spot on the object ball. That's it. There is no other way. You may use a different way of making this happen than someone else, but this is the end result that must happen to pocket the ball. That is why the best systems use a determination of where these two spots are. Are there other systems? Sure are! And evidently some of them work pretty good. The problem with the other ones that I've seen is that they have limitations. They just don't work on all shots. Or are not accurate enough for very long shots. Take a shot where the object ball is six foot from the pocket and the cue ball is one foot from the object ball for example. An adjustment like half a ball or a quarter of a ball just isn't accurate enough. On long shots like this you can be off a 16th of a ball and miss the shot. That's why these shots are harder than short shots. Because of the smaller margin of error. Can you use these other systems to shoot this long shot? Yup, but unless your using some intuitive adjusting, if you make the shot its was pure coincidence that the two balls were sitting in the correct spot to make your 'quarter ball' work.

Do these other systems have merit? Sure they do. For a beginner or an intermediate player that is still learning to pocket balls these systems can help them learn. Once your past that to where you really want to get good at this game, you need something more accurate. Above I mentions long shots. Lets take a look at a couple other shots.

1. Your object ball is half way between the corner pocket and the side pocket about six inches off the rail. You have to cut the ball into the side pocket. You have to be so accurate that the object ball bounces the correct direction off the far tit of the side pocket.
2. There is a ball blocking your object balls path to the corner pocket so much that if you just barely miss that ball you might have enough room to make the shot.
3. (the end all of tough) Your object ball is two feet from the corner pocket. The intermediate ball is two feet from that. The cue ball is two feet from the intermediate ball. All at angles of course. Make the combo!

In none of the above situations are any of these half ball, quarter ball type systems going to be even close to accurate enough.

So how do you make these shots? God does answer prayer, sometimes. LOL

 

[Colin Colenso]

Well, I just couldn't stand it any longer. Reading on the side lines just isn't for me I guess.

How is a pool shot made? You get a certain spot on the cue ball to contact a certain spot on the object ball. That's it. There is no other way. You may use a different way of making this happen than someone else, but this is the end result that must happen to pocket the ball. That is why the best systems use a determination of where these two spots are. Are there other systems? Sure are! And evidently some of them work pretty good. The problem with the other ones that I've seen is that they have limitations. They just don't work on all shots. Or are not accurate enough for very long shots. Take a shot where the object ball is six foot from the pocket and the cue ball is one foot from the object ball for example. An adjustment like half a ball or a quarter of a ball just isn't accurate enough. On long shots like this you can be off a 16th of a ball and miss the shot. That's why these shots are harder than short shots. Because of the smaller margin of error. Can you use these other systems to shoot this long shot? Yup, but unless your using some intuitive adjusting, if you make the shot its was pure coincidence that the two balls were sitting in the correct spot to make your 'quarter ball' work.

Do these other systems have merit? Sure they do. For a beginner or an intermediate player that is still learning to pocket balls these systems can help them learn. Once your past that to where you really want to get good at this game, you need something more accurate. Above I mentions long shots. Lets take a look at a couple other shots.

1. Your object ball is half way between the corner pocket and the side pocket about six inches off the rail. You have to cut the ball into the side pocket. You have to be so accurate that the object ball bounces the correct direction off the far tit of the side pocket.
2. There is a ball blocking your object balls path to the corner pocket so much that if you just barely miss that ball you might have enough room to make the shot.
3. (the end all of tough) Your object ball is two feet from the corner pocket. The intermediate ball is two feet from that. The cue ball is two feet from the intermediate ball. All at angles of course. Make the combo!

In none of the above situations are any of these half ball, quarter ball type systems going to be even close to accurate enough.

So how do you make these shots? God does answer prayer, sometimes. LOL

JR,
I purchased the Spider laser guided aiming system which illuminates the ghost ball position recently. Using this I was quite surprised how much I missed by when I simply connected contact points. The throw is more significant that I imagined and interestingly, the Spin Induced Throw or cancellation of throw using OE was also more than I had realized. It fact, the Spider only works well with OE. With plain hitting you need to align the laser a significant distance from the pocket for any shots of more than 3 feet.

This convinced me that actually trying to aim for contact points will still require a lot of compensation for various spins and speed of CB.

 

[pete lafond]

JR,
I purchased the Spider laser guided aiming system which illuminates the ghost ball position recently. Using this I was quite surprised how much I missed by when I simply connected contact points. The throw is more significant that I imagined and interestingly, the Spin Induced Throw or cancellation of throw using OE was also more than I had realized. It fact, the Spider only works well with OE. With plain hitting you need to align the laser a significant distance from the pocket for any shots of more than 3 feet.

This convinced me that actually trying to aim for contact points will still require a lot of compensation for various spins and speed of CB.

Sure seems that is was well worth the purchase. I would have never thought about getting a truer picture of what is happening.

If you have a moment sometime. Take the same shot and compare the following

1. top english (any english causing the CB to roll forward)
2. OE
3. IE
4. Draw (make sure ball is still spinning at contact)
5. No CB rotation at contact

Would really like to get a sample of the results.

(Edit) Also would be nice to pick medium and fuller (not straight) contacts. In other words have 2 different cut shot angles. There should be a difference here also.

 

[CaptainJR]

JR,
I purchased the Spider laser guided aiming system which illuminates the ghost ball position recently. Using this I was quite surprised how much I missed by when I simply connected contact points. The throw is more significant that I imagined and interestingly, the Spin Induced Throw or cancellation of throw using OE was also more than I had realized. It fact, the Spider only works well with OE. With plain hitting you need to align the laser a significant distance from the pocket for any shots of more than 3 feet.

This convinced me that actually trying to aim for contact points will still require a lot of compensation for various spins and speed of CB.

Colin
Your absolutely right. Notice that no where in my above post does it say anything about a ghost ball. The only thing I mention is that a certain spot on the cue ball and a certain spot on the object ball need to make contact to pocket the ball. Systems like the ghost ball are also just starting points to learn where the actual contact points are.

As you shoot shot after shot after shot you learn that unless a shot is hit rather firm you need to adjust the contact point for throw. The softer the shot the more you need to adjust for throw. Then you have the severity of the cut. The more of a cut the shot is the less throw effect. So high angle cuts like 75 or 80 degrees can be hit softly without making much adjustment for throw.

Then you start adding follow, draw or english and that effects the throw. All this adjusting is why I think a lot of the better players say they aim by feel. There are just so few shots that they aren't adjusting for something. Whether it be speed, amount of cut, or spin, it just seems like there is always something to adjust for. There is no line that goes toward the pocket that goes through the object ball and points to this contact point when your making an adjustment. So we call it feel.

 

[TheConArtist]

Colin
Your absolutely right. Notice that no where in my above post does it say anything about a ghost ball. The only thing I mention is that a certain spot on the cue ball and a certain spot on the object ball need to make contact to pocket the ball. Systems like the ghost ball are also just starting points to learn where the actual contact points are.

As you shoot shot after shot after shot you learn that unless a shot is hit rather firm you need to adjust the contact point for throw. The softer the shot the more you need to adjust for throw. Then you have the severity of the cut. The more of a cut the shot is the less throw effect. So high angle cuts like 75 or 80 degrees can be hit softly without making much adjustment for throw.

Then you start adding follow, draw or english and that effects the throw. All this adjusting is why I think a lot of the better players say they aim by feel. There are just so few shots that they aren't adjusting for something. Whether it be speed, amount of cut, or spin, it just seems like there is always something to adjust for. There is no line that goes toward the pocket that goes through the object ball and points to this contact point when your making an adjustment. So we call it feel.

I agree with the feel part, as for the feel part on shots close shots i go by feel cause it is hard for me to see the angle of the shot, even on some long cuts i go by feel as for the angle but i still use the edge of the cueball. I know on days when im in the zone or whatever you want to call it i go nothing by feel cause i don't think about nothing just get down and fire but when days aren't like that i rely on my aiming ((((systems)))))).