Alex Pagulayan's Ariel Carmeli Cue

Mikey Town

Mikey Town

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi all,

It's not very often we get a close up look at a top pro's lumber, so I thought I'd post these pics before it slipped my mind (again).

This is (one of) Alex Pagulayan's Carmeli cues. I was at Ariel's shop (mid 2015 sometime) when he told me about Alex's visit to the shop a day or two before. I don't remember all the details... in short... Alex loves the way Ariel's cues play, a friend brought him over to the shop, he picked out 3 cues (2 simpler ones to take with him and one fancy one to pick up later), paid for all of them and he has been a Carmeli Cues player ever since.

While I was there, I had a chance to get a look at the fancy one that wasn't quite finished yet, so I snapped a couple of photos. I don't know what the wrap ended up being, and I'm not sure about any of the specs, other than everything is pretty standard to Ariel's specs.

Sorry about all the phone photos, but you know what they say, the best camera in the world is the one you have with you. Also, sorry about all the feet... it was busy in the shop that day... and none of them are mine!

8 points, ebony on ebony, ivory, abalone and silver. Enjoy...


Alex%27s%20Cue-1.jpg


Alex%27s%20Cue-2.jpg


Alex%27s%20Cue-3.jpg




Cheers,

Mike
 
Love the design!

Makes me wonder how pros with ivory inlayed cues bring their stuff in and out of the country. Aren't they worried their cues might get confiscated?
 
Walkermine said:
Amen to that. Bob's work has a tendency to "inspire" other makers. One of the very, very few creative guys out there.

Paul
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You guys do realize all these "creative" designs can be found in books right? So, really not all that creative.

Just sayin
 
jasonlaus said:
You guys do realize all these "creative" designs can be found in books right? So, really not all that creative.

Just sayin
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Show me this design in a book or any other place besides Bob's cue and of course this copy...

Good Luck...
 
jasonlaus said:
You guys do realize all these "creative" designs can be found in books right? So, really not all that creative.

Just sayin
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No Shttt! Then Carmeli should be researching these books and coming up with something that isn't an exact match. You do realize that wouldn't be too much to expect from any creative cuemaker? Right?
 
To his defense, he did only copy the very easy parts and also used much larger endmills

He left out the more complex rotary machining and silver work
 
jasonlaus said:
I will try to find out. Another cuemaker showed me
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Let's say the design was in fact inspired from something seen outside the billiard industry, that's done every day by artists. Regardless, many designs are "inspired" through mediums beyond the industry so IMO it does not make it any less trifling to steal what someone has already shared when you're in the same field.

There are too many ways to change this design up and make it your own to be directly copying form another in the same industry....
 
skins said:
Let's say the design was in fact inspired from something seen outside the billiard industry, that's done every day by artists. Regardless, many designs are "inspired" through mediums beyond the industry so IMO it does not make it any less trifling to steal what someone has already shared when you're in the same field.

There are too many ways to change this design up and make it your own to be directly copying form another in the same industry....
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Not "inspired" many of those designs are exact copies of artwork

Btw, i could care less what they do.....I either like it or i don't
 
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jasonlaus said:
Not "inspired" many of those designs are exact copies of artwork

Btw, i could care less what they do.....I either like it or i don't
Click to expand...

However, some collectors AND cuemakers do care.

Up until this particular thread, and only because someone remarked about this design, I've avoided CDT debates. It's like the ivory threads, the thread goes on until either someone gets banned or the moderators decide to close it.

In this particular example, I happen to know where the design originated. It wasn't out of a book. It was, in fact, drawn out by Bob Manzino.

Now, as Jake said, it wasn't the whole cue that he copied. To do that, he would have needed decals (lol). The point is, he could have changed it up somewhat and nobody would have said a thing. Instead, because someone has no conscience or imagination, his cue gets made an example of not only here but on other forums.

Creativeness is part of how makers like Bob, TW, Richard Black and others get paid for what they do. It is a business and livelihood. For any other cuemaker to ignore that, is just wrong IMO.

Paul
 
jasonlaus said:
Not "inspired" many of those designs are exact copies of artwork

Btw, i could care less what they do.....I either like it or i don't
Click to expand...

Ah, I see... So you couldn't find what your buddy cue maker told you Bob copied to make the Dueling Dragons Cue. Well, you can stop trying because you won't ever find it because it doesn't exist. You like to spew crap derived from utter ignorance. Of course now that you're "exposed" you "steer" away with some other nonsensical rhetoric....

Go back to your sandbox and play with the other little children and leave these things up to those who ACTUALLY know what they're talking about....


Skins-------------KNOWS some children should be seen and not heard
 
anybody know what shaft alex is currently using at this time? Is he using the carmeli or an LD shaft. He was using OB pro for a while.
 
Cue

Skins you are so correct in this post, bob draws and designs it and and bam. Someone sees it then just like that puf. Bet there was a price difference in both cues, Ya. But another thing your right a copy and it happens alot,they try to copy Joe gold's cues buttttt how does the copy hit NOT.. Amen skins hat off to you.Rich aka the skunk.
 
Walkermine said:
However, some collectors AND cuemakers do care.

Up until this particular thread, and only because someone remarked about this design, I've avoided CDT debates. It's like the ivory threads, the thread goes on until either someone gets banned or the moderators decide to close it.

In this particular example, I happen to know where the design originated. It wasn't out of a book. It was, in fact, drawn out by Bob Manzino.

Now, as Jake said, it wasn't the whole cue that he copied. To do that, he would have needed decals (lol). The point is, he could have changed it up somewhat and nobody would have said a thing. Instead, because someone has no conscience or imagination, his cue gets made an example of not only here but on other forums.

Creativeness is part of how makers like Bob, TW, Richard Black and others get paid for what they do. It is a business and livelihood. For any other cuemaker to ignore that, is just wrong IMO.

Paul
Click to expand...

Is there any chance that maybe Carmeli gave Manzino a call, and received his permission to use that design on one of his cues? Maybe knowing that the cue would be made for Pagulayan, then Manzino would give him the okay to use his design? That might be a silly thought.
 
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