All League Players - Poll as to Money Spent on League Night ***

[JAMSGOLF]

Jason

I barrowed barley pop from my grandad..it just stuck.I'm in my fifty's.

I'm almost 40...I SAID ALMOST - I'M NOT THERE YET!!! You actually made me laugh when I read that...I don't remember the first time I heard it, but I've had some "older" friends over the years that used that quite frequently...thanks for the smile!

It is not an easy one as you cannot please everyone! However, the one you must worry about is YOU and YOUR business!

Yeah, I've reached the unfortunate realization that no matter what decision I make with this one (and there WILL be a change...just no final decision on which direction I'm going with it...) it's going to upset a good majority of the players in the league here...too bad the majority may have "ruined" leagues for the minority...usually it's the other way around...but not in this area...and not right now!!! Thanks for your words of encouragement in an unfortunately discouraging situation!

Jason

 

[bud02]

I have to agree with those that say close the tables. Where I play BCA the tables are open but your asked to pay. Open to retrieve cue balls or spot them ect.

I don't drink very often but I do drink coke or orange juice. I practice in a bar near where I live that has 2, 9 foot coin op tables made by Glen Hancock, .50 a game. I always buy a beverage, sometimes eat and I always leave a tip, even though I don't regularly pound down 4 or five beers or a few drinks. But some times I do. And BTW I spend more on league nights than league fees.

 

[justadub]

I know how fashionable it is to crap all over the APA, but here's how it goes in my part of the world. On APA nights, the rooms have a large number of people, and many of them are buying drinks and food.

On the weeknights without APA, there is no one there. No

I guess the APA does something for the rooms here after all, huh? Sorry, I forgot that the APA is bad and evil. How could I forget, it's stated here often enough.... silly frickin' me.

Back to the topic:

I voted that I spend more than my league dues. Not every week, but more times than not, and if I averaged it out over the year I would spend far more per night than my dues.

 

[Spider1]

Jamgolf, about how many league players do you have? Is it in-house or travel (or did I miss you saying that somewhere)?

 

[gunzby]

I play on Sundays and it's $5 from 11am to 530pm which I pay. League starts at 4pm, but I am there at 11am. Sometimes I'll eat and I always get bottled water, a pepsi and sometimes a few beers. Over all I definitely spend more than my league dues. For the most part I see quite a few league players there that spend many times their league dues on alcohol alone.

Free pool, or not I am there to play and it's not just on league night. I am there as many days as work will allow. Heck just found out they're open at 11am again so I guess this night shifter (I work 630pm-630am) is going to be getting a little bit less sleep since I can go in before work now.

 

[Black Cat 5791]

My Division pays the house $10.00 per team each week in a Greens Fee when each Team Picks up their envelope. $80.00 Total each week.

We have 4 match Tables, the house gives us 1 Open Challenge Table For the Night.

We pay $11.00 per hour for any of the other tables we want to rent.

The 64 League Players that frequent the establishment every week spend at least $15.00 on League Night.

So if we were not there that 1 Night a Week, then I guess they would be loosing out, because the only other nights the place is busy is Friday and Saturday when it's Club Night, so much for Pool.

Black Cat

 

[RandyinHawaii]

The team I am on try's to support. A couple of drinks(don't want to drink and drive) and order food. I think that is even to and probably more than what we pay for our weekly fees.

 

[GARY LLOYD]

Profit is not a dirty word...

Sorry, I should have thought of including this one...this by my "definition" is and "open table" as you're not paying for the pool during leagues...

Keep the info coming...the replys so far are exactly what I'm looking for.

Bear in mind that this area would be considered rural...definitely not in the "metropolitan" category! Basically, here's what's happening in this area. League players pay $7 each in dues to play in the APA (5 players on a team = $35 per team to the APA). I open the tables rather than supplying quarters (as I own the tables). I have beer/wine/sodas/jukebox/2-3 other pool tables/even an "arcade section"...and yes $1 for a bottle of water (see another post about that subject). The league teams in this area seem to be filled with "non-drinkers"...so, I'm trying to figure out what's the best strategy to maintain the League involvement, but stop allowing the VAST majority of players in the league from playing "free". With 8 teams in this league (I know small...but still in it's infancy...only been around about a 12-18 months), I would say a good 75% of the players aren't spending more than $2-4 a week where they're playing (mine or the other facilities).

I want to do what's right by the customers, but also what's right for the business...

In our area here in Upstate NY most the rooms are all rental tables, no coin op, so the league operator worked a deal with the rooms for a league rate. We pay $20.00 per match table (2 teams) and $10.00 per practice table for the night. You have 8 teams... So if # of tables permits... You could be making... 4 matches x $20 = $80 + 8 teams x $10 = $80 = $160 per night in table time. Based on 12 tables.

If I were to venture into room ownership I would most likely use a play all night for $10 special every night to get bodies in the place. Then I would offer a 50% discount to league players who play out of my room and on league nights for all league players. With this format your looking at 8 teams x 8 players = 64 players x $5 play all night = $320 in table time no matter how many tables you have.

You have to pay the rent... If they aren't eating and drinking then the time can not be free. Just a couple of options for ya... Good Luck!

After reading more of the post I realized you had a smaller room than I was thinking. But still you could get your money. Make them pay. If you want to be fair to those who spend money charge a $5 fee and give everyone a credit slip good for one night only. First $5 in food or drink is free. If you don't use it that night you loose it. Now the pool is "free" and you are guaranteed $5 per player per league night. Just Ideas...

 

[DelaWho???]

Open the tables 1 hour prior to match time for practice, and close them up when the teams are done. Offer happy hour prices to league players during league play. I would also offer happy hour prices to league members all the time to encourage them to come in on non league time to practice.

In my area they do not charge for the tables and most establishments offer a round or a bite to eat for the teams (most of the time it's a pizza/team). League dues are $7 per person. Most league locations are Moose, American Legion, or VFW sites (people can still smoke in private clubs here) so drinks are pretty inexpensive $2 for a beer. I spend more than the league dues, as does most of my team, on drinks etc. They have to make a killing on the Juke box at my home location, where selections are 2 for a buck or a buck apiece depending on the tune.

Where are you located? I have family in Buffalo. Next time I come back for a visit I'd like to check your place out.

 

[chefjeff]

League dues are 5 or 6 dollars. Beers are 3 dollars a bottle.

4 or 5 beers plus tips ~$20.

The bar gives us one drink free, so subtract $3. 1/2 of 4 pool games = $2.

$15 to the bar and workers, $5 to the league, times 4 players per team. The bar and workers get $60 gross income per team times two teams ~$120 gross.

It's funny last league....the bar we played in said we didn't drink enough!!! I've NEVER been accused of that! We drink more (my stats, abov,e are what I drink--my younger teammates drink maybe twice what I do) than most teams by far and we win the league, too, more often. But she pretty much said she didn't want us there anymore....so we moved down the street to another bar.

Now, she makes zero on us.

Jeff Livingston

 

[nozoxon]

My APA league plays exclusively in bars with 1 or 2 bar boxes. Each bar puts up $5 in quarters towards the table. Once that "community" $10 is used up (usually the 3rd match or so), the home bar puts up the rest of the quarters. The home bar is collecting 50% of that anyway, because the table money is usually split 50/50 with the vendor that maintains the table.

Our dues are $7. Everyone on my team spends at least that in drinks. Some bars that have very good food and drinks, we probably average $20-25 a person. FWIW, we are definitley a drinking team.

Dirty, scummy bars, probably barely 4 $2 pints of miller lite. They're the kind of bar that you can't wait to go home and take a shower. The kind of bar that there's no specials or happy hour, the price is always $2 a pint. The same people sit in the same seats every day for years on end until they die. As soon as we're done shooting, we leave and go back to our home bar, and spend our $$$ there.

Some bars put out food for free. Usually easy stuff in a crock pot-hot dogs and saurekraut, sloppy joes, sausage and peppers. Those bars always have 2 teams with full rosters. One team is playing away while the other team is at home.


So, from the business's standpoint, it seems like you offer a product (pool tables) that a lot of people see as a good value for the price they pay....you have a good following on league night.

However, they don't see the food/drinks as such a good value. Try offering 10% off food to the league players on league night or something to get them to skip going home for dinner before league. Make your food the "better" alternative to wherever they are eating at now. You already have an "in"-convenience. They are already there, so its convenient to eat there. Now, work on the other aspects of the product offering-either the price or the quality of the food to get them to buy.

There's one bar in my league that NO ONE eats dinner before going there. We all go there starving so that we can eat their food. It's so good that I started going there on some off nights to eat, even though its pretty far out of my way!

 

[jrt30004]

i answered that i spend more when the tables are "open" but i need to qualify my answer. first i won't play in a place that doesn't offer some sort of free practice time. the biggest reason i have stuck with league pool is the amount of free practice i get here in atlanta. secondly i won't play on barboxes. the smallest table i play on for league here in the atl are 8 ft gold crowns and i am not a fan of those, i'd rather play in the places the have divisions playing on the 9ft tables. i know it sounds like i am being a dick - but i have to put up with all the b.s. that comes along with playing in the leagues so i want something in return.
also if you are not getting a cut from the local league operator you need to address that with him. i can say that in my apa divisions a portion of the weekly fees go to the house. you need to negotiate that with the l.o.
now because i don't pay for table time, i usually eat at the room and buy a few drinks, which may be soda or alchaholic depends on the night and my mood. the free time also loosens up my wallet if i need to but something on the fly from the pro shop where i will pay twice as much if i just wait to buy it from ozone billiards. the last thing it does it increase the amount i will tip. the main room i play in doesn't even offer table service and i still tip a $1 for every $1.25 soda i buy and usually 25% for food. my tipping will not help the rooms bottom line but it does help keep employee turn over to a minimum.
lastly because i get the perks of free practice time, i am loyal to the rooms i play in. mr.cues 2 and when it was open, the pool room in duluth were my home rooms. and i tell people about them mercilessly. word of mouth advertising is the best advertising because it's free and it's honest. when the p.r. was getting ready to shut down it got horrible i also took no time in telling people that as well.
just some things to consider.

 

[JAMSGOLF]

first i won't play in a place that doesn't offer some sort of free practice time

That's the problem I seem to be having with the vast majority of league players in this area...they want free this and free that, except they aren't spending anything in return...

In your case, I'm betting you spend a fair amount of money in the place not only on league nights (not on pool of course) as well as several other nights throughout the week...

I'm all for "comp-ing" (yeah, that's not a word) regulars who spend their hard-earned money...but not for those who don't...

From the posts and results so far of the poll, almost everyone here seems to understand the concept of Leagues...and with that being the case, EVERYONE NEEDS TO PACK UP AND MOVE TO UPSTATE NY JUST SO YOU CAN COME PLAY LEAGUES OUT OF HERE!!! :welcome:

Jason

 

[jrt30004]

That's the problem I seem to be having with the vast majority of league players in this area...they want free this and free that, except they aren't spending anything in return...

In your case, I'm betting you spend a fair amount of money in the place not only on league nights (not on pool of course) as well as several other nights throughout the week...

I'm all for "comp-ing" (yeah, that's not a word) regulars who spend their hard-earned money...but not for those who don't...

From the posts and results so far of the poll, almost everyone here seems to understand the concept of Leagues...and with that being the case, EVERYONE NEEDS TO PACK UP AND MOVE TO UPSTATE NY JUST SO YOU CAN COME PLAY LEAGUES OUT OF HERE!!! :welcome:

Jason

yes i absoultely spend more money because i get that value added service of free table time. like i said, i spend on food and drinks, pro shop, i support the tournaments they hold (weekly and regional events when i can). i should also add that everything i spend is x2. my girlfriend also plays in the leagues and i pick up most of her stuff too. if i wasn't getting something like the free table time i couldn't afford it all. we both play in 3 apa leagues and i play one night of bca. if i had to choose between all the extra table time and the food and drink it would be the table time. and much less of it. i would concentrate on getting my practice and getting it done and getting out.
i should also add that i was in the restaraunt business for about ten years as prep cook, line, sous and finally head chef. so i unserstand food cost and know that a room can make a way better profit on the extras over the tables. if you have the right staff helping.
in the current economy you have bait people into spending cash. no business owner wants to hear it but you have to. i have a family business and we have had to cut prices to our customers even though our expenses, such as shipping have gone through the roof. i feel your pain man.

 

[Marie's husband]

Now there is a lot of discussion about food and I did not see on your website any menu so I am assuming that you do not sell food. I did see your sign for beer and wine though.

I am also assuming that the league starts around 7-8pm, and people like to snack around that time.

My suggestion to you is that since you can only make money off the league players by them buying something to drink, then you want to make them want a drink. I would suggest putting a free bowl of pretzels, peanuts, nacho's and cheese, salsa and chips, etc., on both teams tables. A minimal expense for the return in drink sales from players wanting to quench thier thirst.

Now I also see that you have indoor golf. I would think that most of the pool players dont take advantage of that, and most wouldnt even try it if they are not spending hardly any money at you place during the pool league. Now you could give each team member one chance at hitting a long drive left handed if they were right handed, and vice versus. At the end of the year give the longest drive a free round of golf. Could maybe pick up a couple of new customers for your golf area.

Just suggestions and wish you the best of luck, your place looks like a fun family place and hope that leagues work out for you and your business.

 

[s'portplayer]

Most of the halls around here, open the tables until 7:00 p.m....League matches start at 7:30.

Most of the players still spend substantially more than their league dues each night, granted my area is one of the largest APA leagues in the country.....We were the 4th largest last year.

Hope this helps

 

[chefjeff]

Most of the halls around here, open the tables until 7:00 p.m....League matches start at 7:30.

Most of the players still spend substantially more than their league dues each night, granted my area is one of the largest APA leagues in the country.....We were the 4th largest last year.

Hope this helps

A teammate made this case to an owner:

Open the tables 1/2 early and four or five of us will drink maybe 6 drinks in that time. Does the bar make more money on the table's 3-4 games or the 5-6 drinks?

4 games @ $1 a game =$4 divided by two, usually =$2 profit.

6 drinks' profits? Much higher than $2.

Jeff Livingston

 

[stuckart]

Sorry I didn't read all the posts first....

I run an in-house league with 10 teams on 10 tables every week. I do not own the room nor work there.

The BCA League dues are $7/week and the tables are pay quarters. 100% of the dues go back to the players at the end of the season (20 weeks). With all teams getting something back.

Our room has food and many players (and spouses) come in and have some food either before or during play.

One thing that really works is the bar gives 1 Free Team Drink to each player per night. (Actually it's $.25 because of Arizona Law). The way it works is after half of the night has gone by, each team gets 1 Free drink equal to the drink they were already drinking that night. This seems to work great, as anyone who wanted a Miller Lite, had already purchased 1-4 before this time, and usually has another afterwards to round out the night. Those that drink soda can get a refill and the same with water.

The owner did some calculations the other week, based on the first 5 weeks of play and determined the average of all players each week worked out to about $13 spent on top of the league dues. Obviously some are more and way more where others are the $2-4 people.

In my area, people who play APA are seen as the Lessor Skilled Players, and the majority are seen to be more of the drinker type. In the better leagues like BCA, the skill level is elevated and people tend to drink less alcohol as they have tougher opponents.

 

[supergreenman]

(EVEN IF YOU DON'T POST IN THE THREAD, PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO VOTE HONESTLY IN THE POLL...ALL HELP APPRECIATED!!!)

Before I make any decision as to what I'm going to do with regards to the APA playing in my facility again, I would like some input from the masses!

Over the last 3 APA sessions, I have watched the steady decline of money being spent in my facility by league players on league nights...in fact to an almost disappointing crawl. This is not only in my facility, but I hear the rumors of grumbling from the owners of the other facilities supporting the league in this area (note: in a truly unbiased statement...I have the best facility for playing pool in this area). I know people are going to say "the economy sucks". I agree. But I want to find out from the league players on AZ what their "common" practice is on League nights.

I'm not an advocate of drinking and driving, but I think the league players in this area are forgetting that NONE of their weekly league dues go to the facility owner...and NO MONEY comes from the APA to the owners to compensate for maintenance on the tables played by the Leagues.

So essentially, when League players play each week...and only pay their dues to the national organizations, no money stays local...

To avoid any confusion with regards to what I'm asking, definitions for the poll options are as follows:

Open Tables = League Players DO NOT pay for each game during Leagues
Closed Tables = League Players must pay for each game played during Leagues

ESSENTIALLY I'M ASKING IF YOU AS A LEAGUE PLAYER SPEND LESS THAN OR MORE THAN YOUR WEEKLY LEAGUE DUES AMOUNT AT THE FACILITY YOU'RE PLAYING AT (e.g. If your weekly dues are $7 for the league, do you spend less than or more than $7 - in drinks/food/practice games at the facility during league play?)

I think my mind is made up as to what I'm going to do, but I would still like to see what the results are, so any and all input is greatly appreciated.

Jason

I spend more when the tables are open.... I can attribute this to getting there early when the tables open so and staying later. During that time more beverages are consumed.

 

[justadub]

When you know you don't have to pay for table time, you can measure how much you can drink by the available cash in pocket...since you have no other expenses that evening. (Of course, before the credit/debit card comes out, heh)

If I have to pay for table time, I am keeping that in the back of my mind as I play, and will reduce my beverage/food intake accordingly.