All-natural cues - does anyone make them?

Minnesota Phat said:
I'm a Luddite when it comes to pool cues, so I was just wondering if anyone makes a 100% natural two-piece cue - just wood, leather, rubber, etc. - no steel, plastic, etc.

I'm no expert, but the only problem issues I could see are the finish and the glue, and I think a clever cuemaker could maybe find a way to navigate those issues.

Is there a reason why it would be bad to make a cue out of all-natural materials?

Personally, I wouldn't want ivory (I love elephants), but other than that, I'd vastly prefer a cue where the only feedback comes from leather, wood, and other natural materials.

I'm mainly asking out of curiosity, but such a cue would get on my radar as something I might want to buy and/or recommend to others someday.

Thanks!
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Its called a 'HOUSE CUE'.
 
Minnesota Phat said:
It seems that an all-natural, high quality, minimally-processed cue is possible. To make it even more natural, one could use cork or some very soft wood as the butt-protector, although that would probably need to be replaced periodically. The builder could provide a handful of such protectors, made to screw in like a wooden screw, so they could be changed on-the-spot if needed.

Hmmm...
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They used to use leather on some cues as a bumper. I'd think leather or cork would work, though cork may have a durability problem unless it is impregnated with some non-natural material.
 
boogieman said:
They used to use leather on some cues as a bumper. I'd think leather or cork would work, though cork may have a durability problem unless it is impregnated with some non-natural material.
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I still use leather.
 

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Sheldon said:
In my opinion, foam or other fillers for LD shafts is only necessary to control unwanted sound. With a wood shaft, it's not necessary. Super thin carbon tubes make a distinct sound if they are left hollow. Some have promoted the idea that "voids" anywhere in the cue will somehow ruin it, but nothing much backs that up.
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Also helps get the weight up. Without it you end up with a fly-weight shaft.
 
garczar said:
'Geez'??? WTF, is this 1950?? I don't read long-ass posts. You post this cryptic response that leads to some fkng novel. I'll pass.
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You said you wouldn't read it but want to know. Thus my 'sigh.' It's a classic short book read by millions. I know, it's 2022 and even those short books are too long to read now. Twattle might have summed it up in so many words.

Someone who did read it will chime in, I'd bet.


Jeff Livingston
 
kling&allen said:
I'm just a basement woodworker, so I limit use of caustic chemicals whenever I can. The dust from natural wood (especially fine dust from sanding or routing) is very dangerous, so if you are equipped to handle that you can likewise handle many commercial epoxies, which I think was the point made above. Many imported woods can also be infused with dangerous fungicides. I like to use a simple shellac for my finish as I don't care about hardness, clarity, or resale. But it would be hard to commercially compete with the durability, gloss, and clarity of 2K auto finish or other similar chemicals.

I also disagree that cue technology hasn't improved in the last few decades. The burls and other exotic woods we see today can be used without (much) fear of warping as cue makers have adopted coring and other improved building techniques. And this is without even discussing the benefits of CNC. I haven't done a scientific study, but I would bet the average cue today will hold up much better than the average cue from 60 years ago.

He is mentioned above, and I don't know what finish he uses, but definitely check out Mariposa cues if you want an all-wood cue. Here is an example of his work:
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Thanks! I hadn't thought about fungicides in imported wood, and I would assume that breathing in wood dust would be a Bad Thing. Do most woodworkers use a full-on respirator though? I would think wood particles could be protected against by an N95 mask, or am I wrong about that?

OK well I have to defer to your expertise about the technology, and from what I hear, CNC does make it more possible to produce good cues cheaply, which is a good thing. It's hard to say what knowledge has been gained, or lost in woodworking, since nobody knows "lost" knowledge!

I'll grant you that technology may have done some good things for cue-making, but I maintain that synthetic materials that alter the way the cue feels and sounds have had a negative effect on the look, sound, and play of billiards.

Mariposa cues look beautiful! Made in Chicago, I see - I used to live there.
 
Minnesota Phat said:
Thanks! I hadn't thought about fungicides in imported wood, and I would assume that breathing in wood dust would be a Bad Thing. Do most woodworkers use a full-on respirator though? I would think wood particles could be protected against by an N95 mask, or am I wrong about that?

OK well I have to defer to your expertise about the technology, and from what I hear, CNC does make it more possible to produce good cues cheaply, which is a good thing. It's hard to say what knowledge has been gained, or lost in woodworking, since nobody knows "lost" knowledge!

I'll grant you that technology may have done some good things for cue-making, but I maintain that synthetic materials that alter the way the cue feels and sounds have had a negative effect on the look, sound, and play of billiards.

Mariposa cues look beautiful! Made in Chicago, I see - I used to live there.
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N95 is better than nothing, but insufficient for long term exposure. Depends on what you are doing, too. Cutting with a spindle is probably okay. Fine sanding ebony or coco on a lathe definitely not okay.
 
DeeDeeCues said:
N95 is better than nothing, but insufficient for long term exposure. Depends on what you are doing, too. Cutting with a spindle is probably okay. Fine sanding ebony or coco on a lathe definitely not okay.
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Good to know! I also heard that a lot of guys have an HVAC thing to clean out the air - I forget what it's called.

My only attempt at cue-building was to buy a "finish taper" bocote butt blank and have someone put a pin in it that matches a masse shaft I bought - I sanded down the butt at the joint to give it a bit of taper towards the shaft, since the butt is oversized, but I sanded too much, and now the shaft overhangs the butt where the two connect.

I used Minwax wipe-off polyurethane to finish it, because that looked quicker and easier than trying to figure out natural oils and/or shellac *ahem*.

I waited a week after applying the second coat of Minwax, and it still wasn't dry, so I sanded it until it dried. It's now slightly tacky, but actually looks and feels quite nice.

I did not use a respirator or a natural finish. ;P

I've spent about the same amount trying to put together a cheap masse cue as I would have paid to just buy a masse cue.

So that's my current reality, but my quest for the perfect playing cue is underway.

I'm about to head out and try using my purpleheart break cue with the weight bolt removed with my kielwood OB Phoenix III 11.8mm shaft. My playing cue's pin doesn't align with this shaft as well as the break cue does, so maybe that's a sign? lol - we'll see. I'm hoping the break cue is forward-balanced, since I think the kielwood shaft is light.

Anyway, I hope my pool newbie's perspective on cue-building is funny and/or informative. When I bought that "final turn" cue blank to try to make a masse cue out of, I thought "It doesn't look that hard to just put a finish on it, have somebody install a pin, and screw a butt-cap into it," and comedy ensued.

Learning how to build perfect cues looks just as difficult as learning how to play perfect pool.
 
Minnesota Phat said:
Thanks! I hadn't thought about fungicides in imported wood, and I would assume that breathing in wood dust would be a Bad Thing. Do most woodworkers use a full-on respirator though? I would think wood particles could be protected against by an N95 mask, or am I wrong about that?
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Many shops have multi-layer dust collection. Face -> Tool -> Room. So depending on the materials being worked on, N95 or better (even PAPR) for the face, some sort of high-volume dust collection at the tool, and then ceiling-mounted or whole room filtration/extraction. If you're going to get started with woodworking, make sure you do some googling in advance as these levels are protection are a good investment.

It's of course possible not to do any of this and live a long and healthy life. But the few hundreds dollars I've spent on dust collection are minor compared to what I've spent on other tools.
 
kling&allen said:
I'm just a basement woodworker, so I limit use of caustic chemicals whenever I can. The dust from natural wood (especially fine dust from sanding or routing) is very dangerous, so if you are equipped to handle that you can likewise handle many commercial epoxies, which I think was the point made above. Many imported woods can also be infused with dangerous fungicides. I like to use a simple shellac for my finish as I don't care about hardness, clarity, or resale. But it would be hard to commercially compete with the durability, gloss, and clarity of 2K auto finish or other similar chemicals.

I also disagree that cue technology hasn't improved in the last few decades. The burls and other exotic woods we see today can be used without (much) fear of warping as cue makers have adopted coring and other improved building techniques. And this is without even discussing the benefits of CNC. I haven't done a scientific study, but I would bet the average cue today will hold up much better than the average cue from 60 years ago.

He is mentioned above, and I don't know what finish he uses, but definitely check out Mariposa cues if you want an all-wood cue. Here is an example of his work:


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Are those ebony or phenolic collars ? Phenolic would disqualify it as all natural. What if the black veneer is a dyed veneer? What then?
 
JoeyInCali said:
Are those ebony or phenolic collars ? Phenolic would disqualify it as all natural. What if the black veneer is a dyed veneer? What then?
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Well, even chopping down the tree modifies it away from 'natural'. Where the line is drawn is up to the person defining it.

It's like vegans. How do they claim they aren't harming animals when they eat the animals' food? Cows in Africa would kill for that oat burger, Moonflower.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Are those ebony or phenolic collars ? Phenolic would disqualify it as all natural. What if the black veneer is a dyed veneer? What then?
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Good points, I wasn't trying to call out an all natural cue, only one with a wood joint and traditional styles.
 
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