All-natural cues - does anyone make them?

[Ssonerai]

I do not fill it with anything. The idea is to remove mass, not add something soggy.
Then again, i have only a few cues (& a dozen or so blanks) to my name; which name also means nothing in the cue world.

Per your notes about patents: There are more than you might be aware of, and many don't make a lot of sense. But someone like Predator could use them to swat makers they perceive as a challenge. As you know from your mentioned experience with patents, a patent is merely a license to litigate. If you/patent owner become aware of an infringement and don't litigate, a later challenge by the patent owner could be vacated by the courts. There are more than a couple on the subject of deflection and hollow shafts, i forget which one was in recent years brandished by a major producer, but start here.

US20040009822A1 - Billiard cue - Google Patents

A billiard cue includes a shaft having a hollow bore extending for a predetermined distance from a first end of the shaft to reduce the tip end weight of the shaft. In one aspect, where the shaft is formed of a composite material consisting of fibers in a binder, such as carbon fibers in an...

patents.google.com

Just as importantly, read all the way down to the bibliography of cited prior patents. Then select and follow those, etc, etc.
Nope, most don't make sense to me and most people who paid for a patent lost money on them. But there they are.

I would not use LD Davis glue for woodworking, though it may have appeal to your project. Their focus is "green" & food safe, so AFAICT they do not use any preservatives/antimicrobials. Most of their formulations are for paper type stuff. Like lickable envelopes, stamps, food exposure, that type product. I'm not liking the starch and sugar additives for durability or appropriateness for woodworking. I've been buying from Eugene Thordahl/Bjorn Industries for some 30 years, including many 5 lb units (that's a lot of wet glue) for Whitehouse projects during the early 2000's. Bjorn used to have a lot more info on their site, though. Even if it somehow turns out tht Bjorn Industries is buying from LD Davis, I trust the specific products being tailored and vetted by Gene.

I really like using hot hide glue, but there is too much to understand about any adhesive product, and how wood interacts with it and moisture, sun, and other environmental effects to cover in a short online discussion. It is appropriate to cue sticks, perhaps even "modern" ones. But there are some gotchas, there is market perception, and there is how to manage wood movement. One of the reasons white/yellow glues work so well for modern cabinet making is because they do "give" (As LLD points out as a defect). HHG does not, which is why it is better for musical instruments, among many other things. Epoxies make it possible to contrive constructions that would be iffy with other adhesives. & epoxy is the only one that is essentially insensitive to joint condition. White/yellow, HHG, plastic resin, phenolics all require near perfect knife planed joints for best bonding because they partly depend on intiating wood-to-wood "welding". Epoxy works better with coarse jointery and thick gluelines. Etc.

Love WEST epoxy, and phenol resorcinals - they make so many technical constructions possible with wood (airplane propellers) and are more or less weatherproof. They are also easier to use than HHG on large constructions, laminations, and lay-ups.

Your ideas are fine - so often there is nothing really wrong with traditional materials & methods of work for a given performance. Usually they are easier to maintain (with a cultural skill base) even over centuries. E.g. acoustic stringed instruments. OTOH, they do require that periodic maintenance. The concept just no longer lends itself to the modern idea of disposable permanence for many products. (The wooden product should be bullet proof and look like it was made out of shiny plastic, forever. When it does not, anymore, it either needs completely/invasively redone, or thrown out)

One of my kid brothers lives in Minnesota, i've not been out. Upstate NY, here,

 

[boogieman]

I do not fill it with anything. The idea is to remove mass, not add something soggy.
Then again, i have only a few cues (& a dozen or so blanks) to my name; which name also means nothing in the cue world.

Per your notes about patents: There are more than you might be aware of, and many don't make a lot of sense. But someone like Predator could use them to swat makers they perceive as a challenge. As you know from your mentioned experience with patents, a patent is merely a license to litigate. If you/patent owner become aware of an infringement and don't litigate, a later challenge by the patent owner could be vacated by the courts. There are more than a couple on the subject of deflection and hollow shafts, i forget which one was in recent years brandished by a major producer, but start here.

US20040009822A1 - Billiard cue - Google Patents

A billiard cue includes a shaft having a hollow bore extending for a predetermined distance from a first end of the shaft to reduce the tip end weight of the shaft. In one aspect, where the shaft is formed of a composite material consisting of fibers in a binder, such as carbon fibers in an...

patents.google.com

Just as importantly, read all the way down to the bibliography of cited prior patents. Then select and follow those, etc, etc.
Nope, most don't make sense to me and most people who paid for a patent lost money on them. But there they are.

I would not use LD Davis glue for woodworking, though it may have appeal to your project. Their focus is "green" & food safe, so AFAICT they do not use any preservatives/antimicrobials. Most of their formulations are for paper type stuff. Like lickable envelopes, stamps, food exposure, that type product. I'm not liking the starch and sugar additives for durability or appropriateness for woodworking. I've been buying from Eugene Thordahl/Bjorn Industries for some 30 years, including many 5 lb units (that's a lot of wet glue) for Whitehouse projects during the early 2000's. Bjorn used to have a lot more info on their site, though. Even if it somehow turns out tht Bjorn Industries is buying from LD Davis, I trust the specific products being tailored and vetted by Gene.

I really like using hot hide glue, but there is too much to understand about any adhesive product, and how wood interacts with it and moisture, sun, and other environmental effects to cover in a short online discussion. It is appropriate to cue sticks, perhaps even "modern" ones. But there are some gotchas, there is market perception, and there is how to manage wood movement. One of the reasons white/yellow glues work so well for modern cabinet making is because they do "give" (As LLD points out as a defect). HHG does not, which is why it is better for musical instruments, among many other things. Epoxies make it possible to contrive constructions that would be iffy with other adhesives. & epoxy is the only one that is essentially insensitive to joint condition. White/yellow, HHG, plastic resin, phenolics all require near perfect knife planed joints for best bonding because they partly depend on intiating wood-to-wood "welding". Epoxy works better with coarse jointery and thick gluelines. Etc.

Love WEST epoxy, and phenol resorcinals - they make so many technical constructions possible with wood (airplane propellers) and are more or less weatherproof. They are also easier to use than HHG on large constructions, laminations, and lay-ups.

Your ideas are fine - so often there is nothing really wrong with traditional materials & methods of work for a given performance. Usually they are easier to maintain (with a cultural skill base) even over centuries. E.g. acoustic stringed instruments. OTOH, they do require that periodic maintenance. The concept just no longer lends itself to the modern idea of disposable permanence for many products. (The wooden product should be bullet proof and look like it was made out of shiny plastic, forever. When it does not, anymore, it either needs completely/invasively redone, or thrown out)

One of my kid brothers lives in Minnesota, i've not been out. Upstate NY, here,

My Great Great Great uncle used to make violins using salvaged wood auctioned off from a half century old bridge in london. He used hide glue and he rebuilt/refurbished Stradivarius in his down time. Hide glue is perfect if you understand your craft and precision.

 

[boogieman]

If you really want this, just find the most local Amish cabinet maker and have them make you a cue. They won't use man made materials by default. Have the harness maker make you a tip while you're at it.
They have lathes and they are one of the few people who will really make a cue like they were made 100 years ago.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

If you really want this, just find the most local Amish cabinet maker and have them make you a cue. They won't use man made materials by default. Have the harness maker make you a tip while you're at it.
They have lathes and they are one of the few people who will really make a cue like they were made 100 years ago.

That isn't true. I was in an Amish furniture factory in 1996. They claimed to only use hand tools, but one of the first things I noticed was a hot rod OMGA miter saw.

 

[Ssonerai]

If you go back 3 generations (grandpa's parents, actually) I'm mennonite.
Even they were non-practicing, but GGMa is buried in the Mennonite cemetary. (It's not clear in family lore whether GGPa predeceased & is beside her under the stele, or if he actually ran off with a younger lady to Michigan.)
All G-pa's generation of brothers (5 of them at least) raced off to join various military services and fight in all the wars of the late 19th and early-mid 20th c. so of course they were done being pacifists.
Where i'm going with this, is that i have more than a little antipathy toward the hypocrisy of many Amish. And each local church is it's own world, so it varies. But Amish are against too much education lest it make a man proud. Their pride, for many of them just oozes out in other ways, but the lack of education means they forgot most of the traditional skills they profess to practice. It's a good show for the "Englishers" (non amish) though.

A few years ago i was going into the local pool hall and there was an Amish crew up on top, putting on a new roof.
The crew boss saw i was shouldering a cue case and asked me to tell him how much the cue cost. More or less so his guys could have a good laugh. I took it out and told him there was about $15 in parts and such, and mostly wood scraps from my cabinet shop, maybe $25-30 all done (at the time, cocabola FS with simple ferules, BE forearm, straight grain shaft). I was low-balling it, because i knew he wanted to make fun of me for being a fool. He could not believe i made it and muttered something about the "last guy said his was worth $500" or something like that.

I have met quiet, studious Amish and Mennonites who do care and study their craft. One kid taught himself & runs a multi-axis cnc router and lathe (big ones, not cue size). They are gentle and questing as far as the religion and local minister lets them. But overall, "craftsmanship" and "Amish" is a bit of an oxymoron if you really have any depth in a trade. As others mentioned, you go in their shops and it's all modern equipment, fastest least insightful methods (Kregg jigs, biscuits, deck screws) but the equipment all has airmotors swapped in & is run off a huge diesel compressor, or generator in some few cases.

smt

 

[DeeDeeCues]

If you go back 3 generations (grandpa's parents, actually) I'm mennonite.
Even they were non-practicing, but GGMa is buried in the Mennonite cemetary. (It's not clear in family lore whether GGPa predeceased & is beside her under the stele, or if he actually ran off with a younger lady to Michigan.)
All G-pa's generation of brothers (5 of them at least) raced off to join various military services and fight in all the wars of the late 19th and early-mid 20th c. so of course they were done being pacifists.
Where i'm going with this, is that i have more than a little antipathy toward the hypocrisy of many Amish. And each local church is it's own world, so it varies. But Amish are against too much education lest it make a man proud. Their pride, for many of them just oozes out in other ways, but the lack of education means they forgot most of the traditional skills they profess to practice. It's a good show for the "Englishers" (non amish) though.

A few years ago i was going into the local pool hall and there was an Amish crew up on top, putting on a new roof.
The crew boss saw i was shouldering a cue case and asked me to tell him how much the cue cost. More or less so his guys could have a good laugh. I took it out and told him there was about $15 in parts and such, and mostly wood scraps from my cabinet shop, maybe $25-30 all done (at the time, cocabola FS with simple ferules, BE forearm, straight grain shaft). I was low-balling it, because i knew he wanted to make fun of me for being a fool. He could not believe i made it and muttered something about the "last guy said his was worth $500" or something like that.

I have met quiet, studious Amish and Mennonites who do care and study their craft. One kid taught himself & runs a multi-axis cnc router and lathe (big ones, not cue size). They are gentle and questing as far as the religion and local minister lets them. But overall, "craftsmanship" and "Amish" is a bit of an oxymoron if you really have any depth in a trade. As others mentioned, you go in their shops and it's all modern equipment, fastest least insightful methods (Kregg jigs, biscuits, deck screws) but the equipment all has airmotors swapped in & is run off a huge diesel compressor, or generator in some few cases.

smt

Yeah, the OMGA was turbine driven.

 

[Minnesota Phat]

I do not fill it with anything. The idea is to remove mass, not add something soggy.
Then again, i have only a few cues (& a dozen or so blanks) to my name; which name also means nothing in the cue world.

Cool! I'm curious what that would hit like. I was told by OB that my OB Phoenix III shaft is filled with foam. I do like the shaft - it's actually so low-deflection that I have trouble adjusting for deflection, if that makes sense (the adjustment is often so tiny that it feels like I'm just aiming straight).

Per your notes about patents: There are more than you might be aware of, and many don't make a lot of sense. But someone like Predator could use them to swat makers they perceive as a challenge. As you know from your mentioned experience with patents, a patent is merely a license to litigate. If you/patent owner become aware of an infringement and don't litigate, a later challenge by the patent owner could be vacated by the courts. There are more than a couple on the subject of deflection and hollow shafts, i forget which one was in recent years brandished by a major producer, but start here.

US20040009822A1 - Billiard cue - Google Patents

A billiard cue includes a shaft having a hollow bore extending for a predetermined distance from a first end of the shaft to reduce the tip end weight of the shaft. In one aspect, where the shaft is formed of a composite material consisting of fibers in a binder, such as carbon fibers in an...

patents.google.com

Just as importantly, read all the way down to the bibliography of cited prior patents. Then select and follow those, etc, etc.
Nope, most don't make sense to me and most people who paid for a patent lost money on them. But there they are.

Wow, this sent me down a rabbit hole. You're totally correct, and I can't believe people file such stupid patents. That Predator patent is expired, but the fact that it was ever approved is nuts. It is a license to litigate - excellent point - but getting involved in lawfare over stupid patents is expensive, and bad for P.R. I wonder if Predator ever sued for infringement of this patent, or if they just used it to try to intimidate other builders away from making low-deflection shafts.

I found other patent applications as well, some of them quite detailed, none approved. It looks like some lawyers made a lot of money filing silly patent applications.

I would not use LD Davis glue for woodworking, though it may have appeal to your project. [...]

Good to know. I'll defer to your expertise. Thanks for the info about LD Davis - I do like the "green" focus, but duly noted that there are pros and cons to hide glue, and it's a complicated subject. My skepticism increases when someone (like LD Davis) is trying to sell me something in an infomercial-style article.

Your ideas are fine - so often there is nothing really wrong with traditional materials & methods of work for a given performance. Usually they are easier to maintain (with a cultural skill base) even over centuries. E.g. acoustic stringed instruments. OTOH, they do require that periodic maintenance. The concept just no longer lends itself to the modern idea of disposable permanence for many products. (The wooden product should be bullet proof and look like it was made out of shiny plastic, forever. When it does not, anymore, it either needs completely/invasively redone, or thrown out)

Thank you. I'd ask "Do people like non-repairable products, or are they forced into buying them through planned obsolescence?" The "right to repair" movement has a lot of grassroots support, and is opposed by a lot of greedy corporations. There's a quote I can't find, but it goes something like, "A machine that never breaks is a tragedy for industry." There's a documentary "The Lightbulb Conspiracy" that you can watch for free on YouTube, if you haven't seen it - light bulb companies conspired to make their light bulbs break after a thousand hours, so they could sell more light bulbs.

I think many serious pool players want to keep their very best cue forever, whether or not it stays shiny. I just saw a video of Efren Reyes' showing the interviewer his equipment, and the shaft on his player was worn down and dirty. Vintage cues made by reputable cue-builders are expensive, so people must like them, even though they're old and not-so-shiny.

One of my kid brothers lives in Minnesota, i've not been out. Upstate NY, here,

Yeah, Minnesota has its good points and bad points. It's best to visit in June or September, although all summer is pretty alright, if you don't mind high humidity and mosquitoes. October through May is mostly winter weather, although sometimes there are some nice days.

I'm a freedom-lover, so I may follow Mr. Wanderone's footsteps to Nashville - lockdowns and mandates make me sick, and we had a bunch of that authoritarian crap here (although I hear New York is even worse).

Cheers!
[Edited to correct a spelling typo of "Wanderone"]

 

[Sheldon]

In my opinion, foam or other fillers for LD shafts is only necessary to control unwanted sound. With a wood shaft, it's not necessary. Super thin carbon tubes make a distinct sound if they are left hollow. Some have promoted the idea that "voids" anywhere in the cue will somehow ruin it, but nothing much backs that up.

 

[Minnesota Phat]

In my opinion, foam or other fillers for LD shafts is only necessary to control unwanted sound. With a wood shaft, it's not necessary. Super thin carbon tubes make a distinct sound if they are left hollow. Some have promoted the idea that "voids" anywhere in the cue will somehow ruin it, but nothing much backs that up.

Huh - I figured they must do that to provide some added strength. My main concern is breaking the shaft - it's 11.8mm, along with being hollow, so I don't jump with it or attempt any extreme masses. I hadn't thought about the idea that they might do that to change the sound it makes.

It will surprise no one to learn that I hate carbon-fiber shafts - I'm surprised they aren't equipped with laser-finders. Eventually, if cue-building "technology" progresses further, you'll just point the cue at the ball, and your automatic shooting mechanism will shoot for you, and every piece of billiard equipment will be made out of jet-black, nano-honeycombed kevlar that makes a high-pitched screeching sound whenever it is moved.

Heck, if technology is so awesome, why bother with players at all? You could replace the players with far-more-effective robots who never miss, and wouldn't that be neato?

Sorry for the rant. I did say at the beginning of the thread that I'm a pool Luddite. ;P

 

[Sheldon]

Huh - I figured they must do that to provide some added strength. My main concern is breaking the shaft - it's 11.8mm, along with being hollow, so I don't jump with it or attempt any extreme masses. I hadn't thought about the idea that they might do that to change the sound it makes.

It will surprise no one to learn that I hate carbon-fiber shafts - I'm surprised they aren't equipped with laser-finders. Eventually, if cue-building "technology" progresses further, you'll just point the cue at the ball, and your automatic shooting mechanism will shoot for you, and every piece of billiard equipment will be made out of jet-black, nano-honeycombed kevlar that makes a high-pitched screeching sound whenever it is moved.

Heck, if technology is so awesome, why bother with players at all? You could replace the players with far-more-effective robots who never miss, and wouldn't that be neato?

Sorry for the rant. I did say at the beginning of the thread that I'm a pool Luddite. ;P

The density of foam used in shafts will not add any strength.
Carbon shafts are hardly new, but Predator did engineer some that play pretty well. Still just a personal preference thing to me, they'll do nothing to fix your stroke. I tried carbon, and prefer the feel of wood. I did like the low maintenance/ding-proof aspect of the material though.

 

[Ssonerai]

Yeah, Minnesota has its good points and bad points. It's best to visit in June or September, although all summer is pretty alright, if you don't mind high humidity and mosquitoes.

My brother mentions that, like it would encourage me to make it out there?

October through May is mostly winter weather, although sometimes there are some nice days.

I love winter and would prefer to live where they start earlier, last longer, and are more durable. But isn't the tallest hill in MN something like only 300 ft? Need much more vertical for the skiing jones. And then there's those skeeters during the warm spell.

I'd ask "Do people like non-repairable products, or are they forced into buying them through planned obsolescence?

It's ignorance on one hand, and economic effieciency on the other. A lack of a culture that includes repair and maintenance; meaning very few practitioners who understand professionalism and cost effectiveness. NOT cheapness, but doing a job that is thorough and warrants the expense. Just look at keeping a painted lady (house) painted. $15 - 30K every 7 - 10 years, or keep it touched up every year by a crew, for a few $hundred to a couple $ grand as was common when they were built. Or have it vinylized. This is straying pretty far from cues, but it is an economic balancing question for every component of life, really. Just the equipment and materials for maintenance on a few material aspects of a life requires an array of storage and work space, and accumulation of tools and partial remnants for next time. Most people don't need the clutter. Besides, you know that in a consumerist society, he who consumes most is the most virtuous. It allows constant innovation, employment, more goods at lower prices, etc. I'm not even saying this tongue in cheek. It's true. So each person has to make the decisions only for themselves on how to balance it all to make a good life.

Stay away from NYC & Albany, and upstate NY is a lot more open than most people think. Less populated than much midwest & west. Lots of reservations and state or federal lands with public use. People are sometimes surprised at what we are not restricted by that is common elsewhere as far as use of our property, and lack of restrictions on trades.

 

[dzcues]

My 2¢ : In the '90s, I built a few plain jane cues using hot hide glue everywhere. I wanted to minimize creep and hoped the hardness of the glue would contribute to the ping I wanted to hear. While it didn't make any noticeable differences in the end results, it worked very well and at least one of the cues is still in regular use today with a rewrap being the only update to the cue. I didn't continue to use it because (a) it didn't really make a difference and (b) it was inconvenient to use compared to epoxy. I would not have any concerns regarding its durability in a cue.

 

[Minnesota Phat]

My 2¢ : In the '90s, I built a few plain jane cues using hot hide glue everywhere. I wanted to minimize creep and hoped the hardness of the glue would contribute to the ping I wanted to hear. While it didn't make any noticeable differences in the end results, it worked very well and at least one of the cues is still in regular use today with a rewrap being the only update to the cue. I didn't continue to use it because (a) it didn't really make a difference and (b) it was inconvenient to use compared to epoxy. I would not have any concerns regarding its durability in a cue.

Thanks for your two cents! That's good to know.

I would think that using real hide glue would be safer for the cue builder (although the off-the-shelf versions might have some toxic stuff added to them). In fact, I would think that building all-natural cues would eliminate many of the health risks faced by cue-builders.

My takeaway is that the main reason cue-builders don't use hot hide glue is because it's more difficult to use, and because its use is uncommon (which means it's hard to know how the glue would hold up, etc.).

It seems that an all-natural, high quality, minimally-processed cue is possible. To make it even more natural, one could use cork or some very soft wood as the butt-protector, although that would probably need to be replaced periodically. The builder could provide a handful of such protectors, made to screw in like a wooden screw, so they could be changed on-the-spot if needed.

Hmmm...

 

[DeeDeeCues]

Thanks for your two cents! That's good to know.

I would think that using real hide glue would be safer for the cue builder (although the off-the-shelf versions might have some toxic stuff added to them). In fact, I would think that building all-natural cues would eliminate many of the health risks faced by cue-builders.

My takeaway is that the main reason cue-builders don't use hot hide glue is because it's more difficult to use, and because its use is uncommon (which means it's hard to know how the glue would hold up, etc.).

It seems that an all-natural, high quality, minimally-processed cue is possible. To make it even more natural, one could use cork or some very soft wood as the butt-protector, although that would probably need to be replaced periodically. The builder could provide a handful of such protectors, made to screw in like a wooden screw, so they could be changed on-the-spot if needed.

Hmmm...

Not really. The woods are some of the biggest risks in building. Epoxy is rather benign unless one is stupid about it. Clear coats are horrible, but respirator science is advanced. Easy enough to protect yourself.

 

[Minnesota Phat]

It's ignorance on one hand, and economic effieciency on the other. A lack of a culture that includes repair and maintenance; meaning very few practitioners who understand professionalism and cost effectiveness. NOT cheapness, but doing a job that is thorough and warrants the expense. Just look at keeping a painted lady (house) painted. $15 - 30K every 7 - 10 years, or keep it touched up every year by a crew, for a few $hundred to a couple $ grand as was common when they were built. Or have it vinylized. This is straying pretty far from cues, but it is an economic balancing question for every component of life, really. Just the equipment and materials for maintenance on a few material aspects of a life requires an array of storage and work space, and accumulation of tools and partial remnants for next time. Most people don't need the clutter. Besides, you know that in a consumerist society, he who consumes most is the most virtuous. It allows constant innovation, employment, more goods at lower prices, etc. I'm not even saying this tongue in cheek. It's true. So each person has to make the decisions only for themselves on how to balance it all to make a good life.

You make good points, and I actually support intelligent technological advancement. I would add the following:

1) Many people simply can't afford a space where they can keep tools and spare parts. Those who can afford such things generally do have them. It's often the case that absurdly high housing costs prevent people from getting what they want, and this is driven by greedy real estate speculators, foreign investors, etc. In the truth-is-stranger-than-fiction category, a Chinese holding company owns a luxury skyscraper in L.A. named "Metropolis" (very ironic, if you're familiar with the sci-fi classic "Metropolis").

2) Pool cues have not been improved by technology - they've just been made uglier, and less pleasing to the eye and ear. Sure, a carbon-fiber shaft may give a player an advantage, and a phenolic tip provides more power, but that results in a break cue that looks ugly and sounds crappy. Low-deflection involves a trade-off that isn't necessarily good for the quality of the game, since making a game easier doesn't always make it better, but LD shafts definitely make it more expensive to play pool on an equal-footing with other serious players.

An aluminum baseball bat is useful because it's cheaper in the long run, and it makes hitting baseballs easier - it also looks and sounds like crap, and so the MLB bans its use in every professional baseball league. The MLB also bans corked bats, which are the baseball equivalent to an LD shaft.

Perhaps the consumerist philosophy of "s/he who consumes the most is the most virtuous" is ultimately self-destructive, and makes everything uglier. I agree that it is a popular ideology, but I think there are better alternatives to the "exploit everything, and then throw it away" mentality of consumerism.

 

[Minnesota Phat]

Not really. The woods are some of the biggest risks in building. Epoxy is rather benign unless one is stupid about it. Clear coats are horrible, but respirator science is advanced. Easy enough to protect yourself.

That's good, but when faced with a choice between some toxicity and no toxicity, I would generally prefer no toxicity.

 

[kling&allen]

That's good, but when faced with a choice between some toxicity and no toxicity, I would generally prefer no toxicity.

I'm just a basement woodworker, so I limit use of caustic chemicals whenever I can. The dust from natural wood (especially fine dust from sanding or routing) is very dangerous, so if you are equipped to handle that you can likewise handle many commercial epoxies, which I think was the point made above. Many imported woods can also be infused with dangerous fungicides. I like to use a simple shellac for my finish as I don't care about hardness, clarity, or resale. But it would be hard to commercially compete with the durability, gloss, and clarity of 2K auto finish or other similar chemicals.

I also disagree that cue technology hasn't improved in the last few decades. The burls and other exotic woods we see today can be used without (much) fear of warping as cue makers have adopted coring and other improved building techniques. And this is without even discussing the benefits of CNC. I haven't done a scientific study, but I would bet the average cue today will hold up much better than the average cue from 60 years ago.

He is mentioned above, and I don't know what finish he uses, but definitely check out Mariposa cues if you want an all-wood cue. Here is an example of his work:

 

[Ssonerai]

I would argue that superblonde de-waxed shellac from flakes is as clear as anything.
Up until a few years ago, it was the benchmark for clarity, all "synthetics" were essentially trying to mimic the "under glass" look of a good french polish (shellac).

However, as you mention it is softer. So the finish gradually dulls to a nice patina.

I would argue it also lasts darn near forever (absent water, alcohol, and extreme abrasion) you just have to lightly re-polish it periodically.
("polish" in old parlance means lightly clean, smooth where necessary, and rub on a few new light coats of freshly made shellac with a faintly damp pad)

smt

 

[DeeDeeCues]

I would argue that superblonde de-waxed shellac from flakes is as clear as anything.
Up until a few years ago, it was the benchmark for clarity, all "synthetics" were essentially trying to mimic the "under glass" look of a good french polish (shellac).

However, as you mention it is softer. So the finish gradually dulls to a nice patina.

I would argue it also lasts darn near forever (absent water, alcohol, and extreme abrasion) you just have to lightly re-polish it periodically.
("polish" in old parlance means lightly clean, smooth where necessary, and rub on a few new light coats of freshly made shellac with a faintly damp pad)

smt

I'm a huge believer in shellac. Good for wood, felt hats, shoes...and food.

 

[garczar]

Isn't stainless steel a natural product?

Its a man-made product. Doesn't exist in nature does it? Is there a steel tree or steel plant? He mentioned rubber. Well, VERY little rubber used today is 100% sap-derived rubber. Almost all is synthetic to some degree.