Although not a big APA fan I actually like the APA 9 Ball concept

J

Jeff Rosen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
OK, I'm not a big APA fan, I find it more a social club to hang out and drink than real pool. The matches are too short and the nights too long. You play for 20 minutes then sit and watch for two hours. I don't like slop in 8 ball and not calling the 9 in 9 ball. I like individual leagues better than team anyway.
That being said I love the point concept of APA 9 Ball. Maybe it's because I grew up playing straight pool and think of APA 9 Ball as a sort of rotation straight pool. I would love to see it outside of APA, maybe in tournaments or other leagues. You can change the rules. Calling the 9 ball, pushouts, etc. Maybe even call shot, call safety where you can give back a shot. Maybe 3 points for the 9 instead of APA's two. And minus points for fouls. And three fouls can be a point penalty like the 15 points in 14.1.
I know what many of you may say. It's not 9 Ball. Well, I guess you're right. So change the name. Make it a new game.
 
I used to play in a BCA handicapped 9 ball league which used the point system like the APA.

The big differences which I liked were you could use a jump cue, there was first shot upshot, and you had to call every pocket.

There wasn't a rule like in 10 ball where if you called the shot and missed, hooking an opponent they could choose to have you shoot again. Two way shots are an important skill, and this penalizes you for it.


Jeff Rosen said:
OK, I'm not a big APA fan, I find it more a social club to hang out and drink than real pool. The matches are too short and the nights too long. You play for 20 minutes then sit and watch for two hours. I don't like slop in 8 ball and not calling the 9 in 9 ball. I like individual leagues better than team anyway.
That being said I love the point concept of APA 9 Ball. Maybe it's because I grew up playing straight pool and think of APA 9 Ball as a sort of rotation straight pool. I would love to see it outside of APA, maybe in tournaments or other leagues. You can change the rules. Calling the 9 ball, pushouts, etc. Maybe even call shot, call safety where you can give back a shot. Maybe 3 points for the 9 instead of APA's two. And minus points for fouls. And three fouls can be a point penalty like the 15 points in 14.1.
I know what many of you may say. It's not 9 Ball. Well, I guess you're right. So change the name. Make it a new game.
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I personally hate APA 9 ball. I would be ok with it if there was a pushout, jump cue allowed and called shot. I have been frustrated many times by players who whack at balls in hopes something goes in. APA 9 ball was my only experience in 9 ball until I started playing APA masters and then realized how much of a good game it really was. Unfortunately there aren't enough 9 ball leagues.
 
leehayes said:
I personally hate APA 9 ball. I would be ok with it if there was a pushout, jump cue allowed and called shot. I have been frustrated many times by players who whack at balls in hopes something goes in. APA 9 ball was my only experience in 9 ball until I started playing APA masters and then realized how much of a good game it really was. Unfortunately there aren't enough 9 ball leagues.
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I agree with a portion of that.... I think a push out should be allowed. Jump cue most certainly and you should have to call the 9. I play against so many people who just bang balls around. I would be much happier if they had to call the 9. Not every shot. But at least the 9. I am also not a fan of the handicap system sometimes. I have seen a lot of people manipulate it. Just not sure how they can fix that.
 
With the scoring system there is no point in just calling the 9, you should have to call every ball.

Think of a 75 to 32 point race, more damage is done, slopping in a ball early in the rack, scoring another 4-5 points by the lower rank player.

Coop1701 said:
I agree with a portion of that.... I think a push out should be allowed. Jump cue most certainly and you should have to call the 9. I play against so many people who just bang balls around. I would be much happier if they had to call the 9. Not every shot. But at least the 9. I am also not a fan of the handicap system sometimes. I have seen a lot of people manipulate it. Just not sure how they can fix that.
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I enjoy it. I call it rotation straight pool lol but it's a lot of fun.

They will not allow things like push outs , jump cues, and call shots for one simple reason. APA is not made for advanced players!!! lol They don't want us controlling the rack . I enjoy it for what it is but I'm a fan of any rotation game.
 
If the rules of TE 9 Ball added a point system, I would be down for that.

1 point for 1-8
2 points for the 9
10 points total

Combine it with FargoRate. Your point goal would be 10% of your rating. So if Shane (822) played Ko Pin Yi (797).

Shane would need 82 points and KPY would need 80 points. Make each match 1 hour long with a 30 second shot clock, and now you have something that could possibly make it on television. Oh, and alternate breaks.
 
trob said:
I enjoy it. I call it rotation straight pool lol but it's a lot of fun.

They will not allow things like push outs , jump cues, and call shots for one simple reason. APA is not made for advanced players!!! lol They don't want us controlling the rack . I enjoy it for what it is but I'm a fan of any rotation game.
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I have zero experience of APA but am very much of the opinion that jump shots have no place in any amateur league. Jump cues is a different issue - but they wouldn't be needed if jump shots weren't allowed. The push out might be alien to many recreational players but it really isn't difficult to understand and, again in my opinion, should be there so that said players can learn something about the subtleties of competitive pool. Call shots? 9 ball would a better game if it were call shot, but it is a non-call shot game so it's better to play it that way. Basically, play 9 ball the way it is intended to be played by the WPA but without jump shots at the amateur level - so that it caters for the very recreational to the serious recreational (who should play it as it is intended so that maybe they will migrate to 10 ball one day).
 
Swighey said:
But isn't the object of the game to win by pocketing the 9 ball regardless of who has pocketed the other 8?
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Now it is, but this doesn't always translate into the better player (for that day) winning the match. If I play Shane, and he runs every rack but misses every 9, then I win the match. It's an extreme example, but it does happen, and it's a luck factor that goes unmentioned.

As it stands, the 9 ball is the whole cake. It really should just be the icing.

From a spectator's point of view, they like points. It's easy for them to follow and understand. "Oh, Darren is down 27 points with 5 minutes left. I wonder if he can come back."
 
trob said:
They will not allow things like push outs , jump cues, and call shots for one simple reason. APA is not made for advanced players!!! lol They don't want us controlling the rack .
Click to expand...

But shouldn't the handicap allow for that. I'm not a good player but I learn from playing good players. I've learned how to do some lock up safeties by watching guys trying to get me on three fouls. I've learned some cue ball control by watching opponents, etc. In APA most captains like to pair equal skill levels and you don't learn anything by playing someone as bad as you. I'm in the NAPL and enter tournaments I have no business being in such as the Predator and local tournaments and get pitted against "A"s and "B"s and I consider it a learning experiance. And when I beat an A or a B (I'm a "D" and an APA 3) I feel really good about it, I even won a game against Mika Immonen at the Expo and while it was TOTAL LUCK it did give me some confidence.
 
Jeff Rosen said:
But shouldn't the handicap allow for that. I'm not a good player but I learn from playing good players. I've learned how to do some lock up safeties by watching guys trying to get me on three fouls. I've learned some cue ball control by watching opponents, etc. In APA most captains like to pair equal skill levels and you don't learn anything by playing someone as bad as you. I'm in the NAPL and enter tournaments I have no business being in such as the Predator and local tournaments and get pitted against "A"s and "B"s and I consider it a learning experiance. And when I beat an A or a B (I'm a "D" and an APA 3) I feel really good about it, I even won a game against Mika Immonen at the Expo and while it was TOTAL LUCK it did give me some confidence.
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I didn't say it shouldn't but it's the apa mind set. The league is for absolute beginners to intermediate players. They want people that our either brand new to the game or like to play but don't have the time or will to play it every day and become really good at it to have a chance to win.
 
trob said:
I didn't say it shouldn't but it's the apa mind set. The league is for absolute beginners to intermediate players. They want people that our either brand new to the game or like to play but don't have the time or will to play it every day and become really good at it to have a chance to win.
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I will agree there are some players that fit your description....what percentage overall is hard to tell.

I will say your description does not fit many players in my area. The majority play more than one night a week. The majority of those play several nights a week. Quite a few of those played Napa also. Several more of those play in money leagues also...both travel on bar tables and an in house league on 9 footers. I know this for a fact because I was one of those players myself and saw many of the same faces every night.

Heck we have 5's that play masters and yea I am one of them also.

Due to it gettin too much for this 62 year old body who still does physical work for a living and recently moved out to the country...way out... I just recently cut back to 3 nights a week.

I now play Thursday night 9 ball
Friday night. Scotch doubles double jeapordy

Sunday is a full day of 8 ball scotch doubles...masters and double jeopardy. We start at 2:00 and finish around 11:00 that night
 
Coop1701 said:
I agree with a portion of that.... I think a push out should be allowed. Jump cue most certainly and you should have to call the 9. I play against so many people who just bang balls around. I would be much happier if they had to call the 9. Not every shot. But at least the 9. I am also not a fan of the handicap system sometimes. I have seen a lot of people manipulate it. Just not sure how they can fix that.
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I am real curious about your view on calling the 9 . Just how much more difficult do you think it makes the game with just calling one ball on the table with 6 unobstructed pockets available ?

Unless you are referring to early 9's which I van understand your view.
 
If your APA league operator only offers 8-ball in bars, and there is no other league competition, then I can see what people have the misconception APA, leagues in general are not for advanced players and only play on 7' foot bar boxes. So, it depends on the local league operator.

When I played APA Manhattan, they only offered 8-ball in bars on 7' tables. When I had a job switch to NJ, I started playing APA NJ North Bergen, they had 8-ball, 9-ball and Masters held in poolhalls on 9 foot tables.

APA Masters allow jump cues, push outs, and there is no 23 handicap rule.
http://tucson.apaleagues.com/CustomPage.aspx?q=2403

If you think the local league operators are ignoring a large segment of the pool playing population (advanced players), consider organizing your own league to attract them.
http://www.playcsipool.com/sanction-your-league.html



trob said:
I enjoy it. I call it rotation straight pool lol but it's a lot of fun.

They will not allow things like push outs , jump cues, and call shots for one simple reason. APA is not made for advanced players!!! lol They don't want us controlling the rack . I enjoy it for what it is but I'm a fan of any rotation game.
Click to expand...
 
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lorider said:
I will agree there are some players that fit your description....what percentage overall is hard to tell.

I will say your description does not fit many players in my area. The majority play more than one night a week. The majority of those play several nights a week. Quite a few of those played Napa also. Several more of those play in money leagues also...both travel on bar tables and an in house league on 9 footers. I know this for a fact because I was one of those players myself and saw many of the same faces every night.

Heck we have 5's that play masters and yea I am one of them also.

Due to it gettin too much for this 62 year old body who still does physical work for a living and recently moved out to the country...way out... I just recently cut back to 3 nights a week.

I now play Thursday night 9 ball

Friday night. Scotch doubles double jeapordy

Sunday is a full day of 8 ball scotch doubles...masters and double jeopardy. We start at 2:00 and finish around 11:00 that night
Click to expand...

I'm a year older and play 3 nights right now also. Monday night NAPL 9 Ball, Friday night APA 9 Ball, and Sunday night 14.1 Straight Pool. I was in a fourth night for the summer, a Tuesday 14.1 league but in the winter I have Boy Scouts for my son on Tuesdays..
 
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