American Nine Ball in Decline?

[sjm]

The Phillipines and Taiwan are the dominant forces in men's nine ball. It is no longer a theory but a fact. Admitting there's some room for interpretation on whether Pagulayan should be viewed as a Fillipino, most of the last sixteen are either Fillipinos or Taiwanese.

Chien-Che Huang (TPE)
Alex Pagulayan (PHI/CAN)
Marlon Manalo (PHI)
Efren Reyes (PHI)
Po-Cheng Kuo (TPE)
Fong-Pang Chao (TPE)
Dennis Orcollo (PHI)
Pei-Wei Chang (TPE)
Rodolfo Luat (PHI)
Ching-Ching Kang (TPE)

Let's give credit where credit is due. Good luck to Earl and Johnny, both of them clearly in with a chance to win this, but these Asian guys can flat out play nine ball.

The USA may have a nice rivalry with Europe right now in the Mosconi Cup, but I really doubt we could beat a team of Asian-born stars.

Asia could field a "Dream Team" when it comes to pool.

 

[Playsome]

What a bunch of BS! You think the Americans couldn't field a "dream team" as well? Our guys could beat ANYBODY, believe it!

 

[buddha162]

What a bunch of BS! You think the Americans couldn't field a "dream team" as well? Our guys could beat ANYBODY, believe it!

Look at the final 16 again, and tell me if you really think that's true. We can maybe field a 3 or 4 man team, but pick 20 American 9-ball players vs. 20 Taiwanese pros and the U.S. will be in big trouble.

Taiwan has farming leagues for their pro tour. We don't even have a tour.

-Roger

 

[bruin70]

Efren would have to play himself, no actor can duplicate that smooth stroke and the sheer joy of playing which radiates from Efren with his gestures, genuine smile on success and self-ironic smile & hand on his shirt collar after a rare mistake.

lou diamond phillips

 

[CebuanoNiNoy]

lou diamond phillips

that could be a good suggestion coz Lou Diamond Phillips is half-Filipino.
Of course efren could play his role well coz he'z now familiar with cameras
on film.

 

[Frank_Glenn]

lou diamond phillips

Actually, Alex can do Efren better than Efren. He also does others and it is hilarious.

 

[sjm]

What a bunch of BS! You think the Americans couldn't field a "dream team" as well? Our guys could beat ANYBODY, believe it!

Playsome, by "dream team", I mean a team that looks so tough on paper that it justifies use of the term coined for the 1992 US Olympic Basketball team of Jordan, Magic, Ewing, Bird, Malone, and others.

There's little question that the US could field a fine team that would have a chance a beating anybody. Obviously the US Mosconi team of Archer, Strickland, Morris, Robles, Williams and Jones made a super-tough team that would give any Asain "dream team" a run for its money.

It would make for some great viewing, that's for sure.

Still, the state of pool in Asia is very clearly on the rise, and the Phillipines and Chinese Taipei are mass producing great nine ball players at a most impressive rate.

 

[dooziexx]

Europe got about 50 spots in the WPC, and the US got 13. America has won the last two Mosconi Cups by 11 - 9 and 12 - 1, or 23 -10 in aggreagate. It would be easy to argue we deserve more spots, but will we get them now that we have made the depth of our talent pool look modest through poor play in the WPC?

Europe does need 50 spots because Europe in itself contains 20+ countries. You cant judge who gets more spots using the results from Mosconi cup. Its a Team USA vs Team Europe thing. How about making the Mosconi Cup a TEAM world championship tournament with teams from US, England, Germany, Holland, Taiwan, Phillipines, Japan and Korea.

 

[DaveK]

Europe does need 50 spots because Europe in itself contains 20+ countries. You cant judge who gets more spots using the results from Mosconi cup. Its a Team USA vs Team Europe thing. How about making the Mosconi Cup a TEAM world championship tournament with teams from US, England, Germany, Holland, Taiwan, Phillipines, Japan and Korea.

... umm, and, maybe, like, Canada too eh ? We got a couple OK players (with or without that one disputed fellow, but we'd like to keep him .

With respect to the general thread, I agree that it's all about the development process. History has shown strong development programs lead to strong competitors. As examples look at US basketball , Canadian hockey, the former Soviet bloc programs, while perhaps controversial, produced very good results. There are many other examples where a strong development program or ingrained culture (Dutch skating might be an example) generate high performance athletes. There does not seem to be any development process for cue sports in North America, at least not anywhere near what other sports procide. If there is a widespread strongly supported pool development program in Taiwan, then they will produce strong players, possibly some of the best in the world. Sounds like that's the case.

And of course, a development program should have some high target for the elite, like the NHL for hockey, NBA for basketball (some might read $$$, and that's OK too), and the Olympic for many sports (not cues sports, but curling's there ! .

Just my opinion and some observations,

Dave

 

[sjm]

Europe does need 50 spots because Europe in itself contains 20+ countries. You cant judge who gets more spots using the results from Mosconi cup. Its a Team USA vs Team Europe thing. How about making the Mosconi Cup a TEAM world championship tournament with teams from US, England, Germany, Holland, Taiwan, Phillipines, Japan and Korea.

Doozie, number of countries is irrelevant. If the fifty states were,instead, fifty countries, would you then feel that, as a group, they would be entitled to twice as many spots as Europe? Are you in a state of shock that Africa got so few entries with all those countries in it? Far more significant would be population (Europe 700 million, USA 300 million), but even that isn't what matters. What matters is number of top pool players, and America has far more of them than Europe.

All this aside, though, Europe has performed quite admirably in this year's WPC, and it's nice to see that the level of European pool is on the rise.

 

[DoomCue]

What a bunch of BS! You think the Americans couldn't field a "dream team" as well? Our guys could beat ANYBODY, believe it!

And ANYBODY could beat our guys. In the WPC, the US had only 2 players in the Round of 16, and only Archer has made it through to the Quarterfinals. Six of the final eight are Asian. Granted, the tournament is in Asia - I'm sure that has something to do with it. Still, I don't think it can be said that our top players will always beat anybody else's top players. After all, this is 9-ball we're talking about. We have a tough enough time with Europe's team in the Mosconi Cup, so imagine us trying to beat a team consisting of Reyes, Bustamante, Yang, Chao, Hsia, etc. I think it would be very interesting, but I don't think we'd be a lock to win it.

I don't think it's a question of a decline in American 9-ball, I think it's more that other countries' players have caught up (and perhaps surpassed us). The popularity of pool in the Phillipines and Taiwan is enough to increase their relative pools of talent to field good players. This leads me to a question: What do you think the Americans' chances would be if there were a Davis Cup-type tournament for 9-ball?

 

[sjm]

The popularity of pool in the Phillipines and Taiwan is enough to increase their relative pools of talent to field good players. This leads me to a question: What do you think the Americans' chances would be if there were a Davis Cup-type tournament for 9-ball?

I think we'd come third, behind Taiwan and the Phillipines. Of course, they'd have a chance to win the thing, but I'd bet against it.

 

[bandido]

The US had better get used to travelling to Asia to play in the future due to the economics of the business.

Several Advantages:
1. Government Sponsorship
2. Corporate Sponsorship
3. Broadcasting of 100+ hours to around 40 million viewers.
4. TV paying for the content.

That's not gonna change until US can get some decent broadcasting and viewing numbers.

I agree with these. There are also some minor contributory factors for the decline in pool's popularity in the US. The USA has become less accessible to new foreign players due to entry restrictions (visa). Secondly and only IMO, the so called stars of US pool has gone Hollywood-influenced with their playing styles. It's either slow dramatics (think Archer, Jones, Varner...) or wild west (Strickland, McCready...) and I personally view it as over-acting (b-movie) or hustler moves. These may be reasons why Euros and Asians are stealing the thunder when it comes to following, they're more spontaneous.

Edwin Reyes

 

[sjm]

... IMO, the so called stars of US pool has gone Hollywood-influenced with their playing styles. It's either slow dramatics (think Archer, Jones, Varner...) or wild west (Strickland, McCready...) and I personally view it as over-acting (b-movie) or hustler moves. These may be reasons why Euros and Asians are stealing the thunder when it comes to following, they're more spontaneous.

Edwin Reyes

I'm sure there's some truth in that, Edwin, but it sounds like a topic for a whole new thread. Think I'll need to give it a little more thought first to see where I stand on it.