An apology

[ScottK]

I owe a sincere apology to pool, mostly to those present at Chris's yesterday.

Having done what I could at the time to make it right, and feeling as I did so successfully, I think the details are better left unsaid.
Embarrassingly however, at one point yesterday, I failed to call a foul on myself. This is grossly atypical of me, and I don't know why, or how I could let this happen. The fact remains it did, it was wrong, and I am sorry.

It wasn't typical of me to do so, and it would be less typical of me to not come clean about it.
So, I am coming clean. I cheated. No matter how slightly, nor that I made up for it, I did.
I'm sorry, in the truest sense of the word.

 

[bdorman]

Was that when you took the last slice of pepperoni pizza?

Apology denied. Burn in hell.

 

[trob]

This ain't golf dude where the other guys is on the other side of the fairway lol Your opponent is standing at the table watching your every move. It's there job to call the foul not yours. I'll never deny it when you call it but I ain't calling it for you anymore then I'm gonna push a ball in for you if you miss lol it's your jobs to make your balls when your at the table and to watch for fouls when your not.

 

[macguy]

This ain't golf dude where the other guys is on the other side of the fairway lol Your opponent is standing at the table watching your every move. It's there job to call the foul not yours. I'll never deny it when you call it but I ain't calling it for you anymore then I'm gonna push a ball in for you if you miss lol it's your jobs to make your balls when your at the table and to watch for fouls when your not.

You are wrong about that, when you are playing without a ref it is up to the player to be honest if they foul. The other player should not have to hang over your shoulder or never go to the bathroom for fear you may just rearrange the balls when he is not looking. There is an understanding you will play honestly. Anything less, is cheating.
You say, "this ain't golf" as if honestly is exclusive of golf. Not cheating should be expected of anyone you play. Is that too much to ask?

 

[Nine ... corner]

My two cents ... what macguy said! :thumbup:

 

[poolfool1957]

You are wrong about that, when you are playing without a ref it is up to the player to be honest if they foul. The other player should not have to hang over your shoulder or never go to the bathroom for fear you may just rearrange the balls when he is not looking. There is an understanding you will play honestly. Anything less, is cheating.
You say, "this ain't golf" as if honestly is exclusive of golf. Not cheating should be expected of anyone you play. Is that too much to ask?

I agree with trob....how is it cheating to not call a foul on yourself? As another sports analogy....if I'm trying to stretch a single into a double and I know the tag beat me to the base should I declare myself out? If the Ump blows that call is it my responsibility to correct him/her?
You dont normally have to hang over anyones shoulder to observe a shot. If there is something out of the ordinary on a shot I'm going to put myself in the best position possible (without becoming a distraction to my opponent) to watch the shot but the vast majority of the time I'm sitting in the same chair for the entire match.
If you have to go to the bathroom then just let your opponent know that you will be right back so please take your time figuring out your next shot. If they have a problem with that then dont go to the bathroom until it's your turn at the table.

 

[trob]

You are wrong about that, when you are playing without a ref it is up to the player to be honest if they foul. The other player should not have to hang over your shoulder or never go to the bathroom for fear you may just rearrange the balls when he is not looking. There is an understanding you will play honestly. Anything less, is cheating.
You say, "this ain't golf" as if honestly is exclusive of golf. Not cheating should be expected of anyone you play. Is that too much to ask?

You call it on yourself in golf because your opponent could be 50 yards a way lol that's why exclusive to golf. Rearranging balls when someone walks away is not the same thing. If you play me and miss a foul I'll make you pay for it and not lose a moments sleep on it. The difference is I won't cry like a baby when I miss a foul and Lose because of it. I'll blame myself for not paying attention. We will have to agree to disagree on this one because arguing won't change either of our minds lol

 

[owll]

I agree with trob....how is it cheating to not call a foul on yourself? As another sports analogy....if I'm trying to stretch a single into a double and I know the tag beat me to the base should I declare myself out? If the Ump blows that call is it my responsibility to correct him/her?
You dont normally have to hang over anyones shoulder to observe a shot. If there is something out of the ordinary on a shot I'm going to put myself in the best position possible (without becoming a distraction to my opponent) to watch the shot but the vast majority of the time I'm sitting in the same chair for the entire match.
If you have to go to the bathroom then just let your opponent know that you will be right back so please take your time figuring out your next shot. If they have a problem with that then dont go to the bathroom until it's your turn at the table.

if someone makes a shot that i know is a foul, and they know is a foul....im probably not going to say anything...if they keep shooting, im probably not going to play with that person again.

if you want action, dont crap on it. If you throw a bunch of dumb shit in game, and of course have trouble finding a game....try not to be too surprised.

its almost the same as air barrels. if i see someone fire an air barrel once, to anyone, ill never gamble with that person. i dont need the money, and i definitely dont need to win an air barrel.

 

[trob]

Yep any time my opponent says they're going to the bath room go ahead and shoot I say no that's okay and take a seat until they come back. I want them to have the opportunity to see every shot.

I agree with trob....how is it cheating to not call a foul on yourself? As another sports analogy....if I'm trying to stretch a single into a double and I know the tag beat me to the base should I declare myself out? If the Ump blows that call is it my responsibility to correct him/her?
You dont normally have to hang over anyones shoulder to observe a shot. If there is something out of the ordinary on a shot I'm going to put myself in the best position possible (without becoming a distraction to my opponent) to watch the shot but the vast majority of the time I'm sitting in the same chair for the entire match.
If you have to go to the bathroom then just let your opponent know that you will be right back so please take your time figuring out your next shot. If they have a problem with that then dont go to the bathroom until it's your turn at the table.

 

[AtLarge]

To the OP -- good going; sounds like you've experienced a minor character "tweak"

To everyone else -- the topic of whether a player has an obligation to call fouls on himself has been debated many times on AzB. Some people feel the answer is "no," because they can't find any explicit statement to that effect in the rules. Others (myself included) feel differently. I hope this thread doesn't rehash everything again; such threads can be very long and repetitive.

But there is one new development I'd like to call to everyone's attention. In the most recent edition of the rules for American Rotation, a section has been added to explicitly require a player to call fouls on himself. Good going, Joe and Mark. Here is the section:

"2. Honor and integrity, and “own fouls”
2.1 — A player is obligated to call his or her “own fouls,” even if the referee or opponent (player who was not shooting) failed to see or call the foul. It is not acceptable to “get by.”
2.2 — When a referee (a designated third person) calls a foul, and the opponent (player who was not shooting) believes that a foul did not occur, then the player who was not shooting may “override” the referee and call “no foul”. Because the referee’s ruling is subject to this “override,” the referee is prohibited from touching the balls after calling a foul."

 

[mantis99]

Scott, it was nice to meet you yesterday. I appreciate the fact that you have come on here and admitted this, even though the infraction wasn't against me. Whether or not the rules dictate what you have to do, you obviously know right from wrong, and the fact that you owned up to it says a lot. Hope to see you again at the next gathering.

 

[3RAILKICK]

Ethics can be taught, but more difficult to live. Biggest test..when no one is watching or will ever know.

We have probably all dealt with this at one time or another in pool or other real life situations.

Nobody's perfect...but your behavior does help define you.

OP...good job.:grin:

 

[cluelesscuer]

Sad state of affairs when people don't call fouls on themselves and believe that's okay. I give the op credit, but to the others who think you shouldn't, I wouldn't want to play with you. It makes absolutely no sense..and basically sh*t not calling fouls on yourself. The analogy to a professional athlete when there is a referee is ludicrous. It's a slippery slope, when that starts happening.

 

[stutz]

just good pool etiquette to call a foul on yourself at the time of the infraction

letting it go and "hoping to get away with it" is just plain bad sportsmanship

 

[buckshotshoey]

I almost was kicked off a team for calling a foul on myself. The team captain told me NEVER DO THAT AGAIN. ITS THE OPPONENT THAT IS SUPPOSED TO CALL A FOUL. I told him "tough shit. If I win because I fouled and it wasn't noticable, I didn't really win.

I ended up finishing the session anf didn't play with him after that. Ethics is how we act when no one else is watching. If you win a match when you know you fouled, you are not a winner. You are a loser. Sure is easy to tell who the losers are on a thread like this.

 

[Bavafongoul]

If you know you cheated and do not turn yourself in....preferably immediately but at least afterwards as OP is attempting to do, then you are a *****.
The OP will learn from this and become the better sportsman too.....and bullshit to anyone and everyone that thinks it's okay to cheat.......those people
are "scumbags".......if you can't call one on yourself when you know you did, how dare you ever even think of calling a foul on your opponent.

Look, touching the object ball or cue ball is verboten.......doesn't matter how or why it happened, it's a foul and if you don't call it on yourself, then you
are a cheat and thief trying to steal the match and that makes you a "ROYAL SCUMBAG".

Matt B

 

[cubswin]

This ain't golf dude where the other guys is on the other side of the fairway lol Your opponent is standing at the table watching your every move. It's there job to call the foul not yours. I'll never deny it when you call it but I ain't calling it for you anymore then I'm gonna push a ball in for you if you miss lol it's your jobs to make your balls when your at the table and to watch for fouls when your not.

Guess I've always looked at pool just like golf. If I foul and my opponent isn't looking I call it on myself. Know a couple people that won't do that, and they are the ones no one trusts or will play.

Only time I could see not doing it is if there is a ref watching every shot. Personal ethics are more important than winning a game of pool no matter the stakes.

 

[cluelesscuer]

If I am playing a guy who tries to slip fouls past me then why would I bother calling him out? I don't get why people think someone who won't volunteer information, would admit it upon accusation? I say f' it and don't play with that person again.

 

[ScottK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX2r8TWhTBM&feature=youtu.be

 

[pt109]

I owe a sincere apology to pool, mostly to those present at Chris's yesterday.

Having done what I could at the time to make it right, and feeling as I did so successfully, I think the details are better left unsaid.
Embarrassingly however, at one point yesterday, I failed to call a foul on myself. This is grossly atypical of me, and I don't know why, or how I could let this happen. The fact remains it did, it was wrong, and I am sorry.

It wasn't typical of me to do so, and it would be less typical of me to not come clean about it.
So, I am coming clean. I cheated. No matter how slightly, nor that I made up for it, I did.
I'm sorry, in the truest sense of the word.

What you have done is forgivable.
It takes a good man to acknowledge a fault and ask for forgiveness.
....and it takes a good man to forgive.